Polish Pilots win Battle of Britain

[alexa]

We even let one leave formation and fly off on his own following them home. I think he was the only person allowed to do this ever.

 

[deltabtry]

We even let one leave formation and fly off on his own following them home. I think he was the only person allowed to do this ever.

Britian came awfully close to losing this campaign, a lot closer the most people would realize and the Polish pilots did make a difference and big difference in this campaign, every pilot had to count in this fight.

 

[alexa]

Yes, my great-grandparents (and other relatives) were involved with the Żegota Polish underground from its earliest days in Warsaw.

yes I remember you saying that.

Poles fought not only for their homeland and for themselves, but also for the Jews who were their neighbors and friends. The numbers are far from exact, but... (from the link above):

Yes, I know. Poland was the only country which put in place some special plan to help Jews. I have also read that Poland was the only country where death was the immediate punishment for helping a Jew.

and

Żegota also involved the Polish Home Army in decreeing a death penalty on those Poles who blackmailed or betrayed Jews. When these sentences were carried out, the Home Army published the names of the executed as a deterrent to others.

Zegota www.HolocaustResearchProject.org

I believe you're right about this. Although I haven't spent a great deal of time trying to understand Hitler and what motivated him, I think we can all agree that Hitler had deep social/psychological issues.

Despite the fact that he was the son of a woman who kept house for a Jewish family (my understanding is that his family lived in that house as well), and that his family doctor was Jewish, and that he is known to have had Jewish friends as a young man, Hitler was deeply affected by what he read in The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (a fake document written by the pre-WWI Russian Royal secret police in a cynical attempt to divert public blame of Russia's trouble from the monarchy to the Jews). I haven't read them, but I understand that the Protocols describe an imaginary conspiracy of rich Jews attempting to take over the world by dominating countries like puppets and turning them against each other. Because he was penniless and essentially living on the streets when he read the Protocols, it is perhaps understandable that we would begin to hate the "rich" people, who, according to the Protocols, were Jews. The Jews became his enemy.

I'm also intrigued by the whole blond/blue-eyed "Aryan race" thing that Hitler promoted, and believe this was part and parcel of his psychosis. In Nazism and neo-Nazism, an Aryan was a non-Jewish Caucasian, especially one of Nordic type, supposed to be part of a master race - the "blond/blue-eyed" people. Oddly enough, Hitler was neither blond nor blue-eyed. Did he consider himself a "pure Aryan?" I don't know, but he DID set about eliminating those who looked remarkably like him.

Hmmmmm....

I think the Aryan stuff came from Eugenics particularly stuff that was coming out from some people in the States at the time. He certainly had serious psychological problems. But then again as you said it wasn't just the jews, anyone who was a bit different.

I just thought possibly he seemed to have the same kind of attitude towards Poles as Jews as I understand he got people spreading lies about them being an inferior race (possibly his madness and genetics again) and lots of other nasty names. He seemed to more accept Western Europeans but then he obviously wanted Poland back for Germany.

and yes, plenty of people have remarked he did not exactly fit the picture.

 

[Glinda]

Żegota also involved the Polish Home Army in decreeing a death penalty on those Poles who blackmailed or betrayed Jews. When these sentences were carried out, the Home Army published the names of the executed as a deterrent to others.

I didn't know that. Wow! :shock:

Zegota www.HolocaustResearchProject.org

This is a GREAT link. Thank you!

 

[alexa]

Britian came awfully close to losing this campaign, a lot closer the most people would realize and the Polish pilots did make a difference and big difference in this campaign, every pilot had to count in this fight.

Yes, that is what I started this thread on. We had a tv program on this this week. The Polish flyers did not fly like our people. Instead of firing from 400 yards or feet they went right in to 100 when they were likely to get a hit. They were fearless. They went where we did not dare and had more hits than any other unit. The documentary argued they may have won the battle of Britain for us and yet, due to them being given over to Stalin, we did not even invite them to our victory parade.

Now had they had decent planes of their own, the German's and the Russians would have had no chance!

 

[angrybeaver]

I think to state that the Poles 'won' the battle of Britain for us is a bit insulting to the pilots other pilots that gave their lives.
There were plenty of fearless pilots in the battle of Britain not just the Poles.
Dont believe everything that you see on the television

 

[deltabtry]

Yes, that is what I started this thread on. We had a tv program on this this week. The Polish flyers did not fly like our people. Instead of firing from 400 yards or feet they went right in to 100 when they were likely to get a hit. They were fearless. They went where we did not dare and had more hits than any other unit. The documentary argued they may have won the battle of Britain for us and yet, due to them being given over to Stalin, we did not even invite them to our victory parade.

Now had they had decent planes of their own, the German's and the Russians would have had no chance!

Actually a good book to read would be the Bio On Eric Hartman a German Ace credited with 352 kills..why because the aircraft that the Russians had flown, Eric Hartman would agree with your statement. Eric Hartman would fly a sortie and engage the Russians and or Polish and would find the aircraft where easy to shoot down due to it's inferiority, but like you said and I would agree, if the Pols had Super Marine Spitfires the out come would be far different.
Erich Hartmann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[deltabtry]

I think to state that the Poles 'won' the battle of Britain for us is a bit insulting to the pilots other pilots that gave their lives.
There were plenty of fearless pilots in the battle of Britain not just the Poles.
Dont believe everything that you see on the television

Every pilot in the battle Of Britian counted and I think Winston Churchill said it best, "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few".

 

[alexa]

I think to state that the Poles 'won' the battle of Britain for us is a bit insulting to the pilots other pilots that gave their lives.
There were plenty of fearless pilots in the battle of Britain not just the Poles.
Dont believe everything that you see on the television

Well not having watched the program you are misunderstanding what I said. Would we have won the battle of Britain without the Poles?

had it not been for the magnificent material contributed by the Polish squadrons and their unsurpassed gallantry, I hesitate to say that the outcome of battle would have been the same.

Air Chief Marshall Sir Hugh Dowding

Polish Aviation - Battle of Britain

I also said they were fearless and they flew in ways in which our pilots did not. Again you would need to have watched the documentary to see that that is so. They had a different training to us and this came out when they were in the sky. Again if you saw the Documentary you would have seen this.

It is hard to make assessments of things you have not seen.

However the main reason for my starting this thread was that despite this, when we had our Victory celebrations in 1946, we did not invite them because we with the US had handed Poland over to Russia and did not want to offend Stalin.

That I believe was a deep insult to a people who had so helped us in our hour of need.

Of course our Pilots were brave but that does not take away from the way the Polish flew or that without them we may have lost the Battle of Britain and our history could be quite different. And it does not take away from the fact that they should have been at the victory celebrations.....though I dare say they would have been a bit hollow to them.

 

[angrybeaver]

Would we have won the battle of Britain without the designer of the Spitfire or hurricane..you posed an unanswerable question.
You watching a television programme does not make you an expert nor does it negate my point

 

[alexa]

Would we have won the battle of Britain without the designer of the Spitfire or hurricane..you posed an unanswerable question.
You watching a television programme does not make you an expert nor does it negate my point

You are just being argumentative, trolling and being a nuisance.

 

[angrybeaver]

You are just being argumentative, trolling and being a nuisance.

You are the one that seems to think that the Polish pilots won the battle of Britain.
When I stated that this was disrespectful to the other pilots you asked a stupid question.
If you post a stupid thread and cant back it up dont cry troll.

 

[alexa]

You are the one that seems to think that the Polish pilots won the battle of Britain.
When I stated that this was disrespectful to the other pilots you asked a stupid question.
If you post a stupid thread and cant back it up dont cry troll.

Then please get out of what you call a stupid thread. Your only contribution being that you like Polish women's rear ends. If you are so Nationalistic and inferior in your feeling for your country that you cannot respect and give credit to others that help that is your problem.

As I said, your only contribution to this thread being to say you like Polish women's behinds and to say it is a stupid thread. Please get out and stop trolling.

 

[angrybeaver]

Then please get out of what you call a stupid thread. Your only contribution being that you like Polish women's rear ends. If you are so Nationalistic and inferior in your feeling for your country that you cannot respect and give credit to others that help that is your problem.

As I said, your only contribution to this thread being to say you like Polish women's behinds and to say it is a stupid thread. Please get out and stop trolling.

The post about polish rear ends was humorous.. something you seem to lack.
How you deduce that I am being nationalistic and inferior by arguing against your claim that the Poles won the battle of Britain because you saw it on the telly can only be found in your head.

 

[alexa]

The post about polish rear ends was humorous.. something you seem to lack.
How you deduce that I am being nationalistic and inferior by arguing against your claim that the Poles won the battle of Britain because you saw it on the telly can only be found in your head.

I don't think in all my time of posting I have ever come across a person who so deserves to be on ignore as yourself. Your posts in the European section and the Middle East section yesterday show you to be nothing but a baiter, coming into threads with no interest but to get them off topic and cause a nuisance of the lowest intellectual standing believing that you somehow are clever by playing games and irritating people.

I never said that the Polish won the battle of Britain, I said that arguably without them we would not have won See the OP

Did anyone see that program last night about the Polish Pilots who arguably made the difference that allowed us to win the Battle of Britain.

So that dismisses that twisting lie you were trying to perpetuate.

A person who is so upset at another people being called fearless because he believes it is not fair to his own people is, like it or not displaying Nationalism.

A person who is unable to accept when his country has made mistakes is showing an inferiority complex towards his own country.

A person who righteously denies what has been posted without taking the time to research whether it is correct or not is simply an ignorant pest.

Polish Pilots were far more trained than our pilots and they flew in a different way which was far more efficient.

303 Squadron had the most hits of any Squadron in the Battle of Britain.

In July 1940, Hitler ordered his forces to invade Britain. As a prelude to the cross-Channel invasion, the German Air Force (the Luftwaffe) was to overpower Britain's air defenses. In the ensuing Air War between the German and Allied Air Forces, which lasted through the end of October 1940 and resulted in the defeat of the Luftwaffe, 1 in 8 of allied pilots was Polish, and the highest scoring squadron within the whole of Allied air forces was the Polish Air Force 303 (Kosciuszko) Squadron which accounted for 125 enemy planes. The highest scoring allied fighter pilot was also a member of that squadron. All told, the Polish pilots were responsible for 201 of the Luftwaffe's 1100 planes lost. It is said that the Battle of Britain was won by a narrow margin, and the contribution of the already combat experienced Polish pilots was decisive

History - WWII - Battle of Britain


Now educated yourself and watch the documentary.

The Untold Battle of Britain - 4oD - Channel 4

You are on ignore.

 

[angrybeaver]

I don't think in all my time of posting I have ever come across a person who so deserves to be on ignore as yourself. Your posts in the European section and the Middle East section yesterday show you to be nothing but a baiter, coming into threads with no interest but to get them off topic and cause a nuisance of the lowest intellectual standing believing that you somehow are clever by playing games and irritating people.

I never said that the Polish won the battle of Britain, I said that arguably without them we would not have won See the OP



So that dismisses that twisting lie you were trying to perpetuate.

A person who is so upset at another people being called fearless because he believes it is not fair to his own people is, like it or not displaying Nationalism.

A person who is unable to accept when his country has made mistakes is showing an inferiority complex towards his own country.

A person who righteously denies what has been posted without taking the time to research whether it is correct or not is simply an ignorant pest.

Polish Pilots were far more trained than our pilots and they flew in a different way which was far more efficient.

303 Squadron had the most hits of any Squadron in the Battle of Britain.



History - WWII - Battle of Britain


Now educated yourself and watch the documentary.

The Untold Battle of Britain - 4oD - Channel 4

You are on ignore.

This post is chocked full of completely baseless accusations.
I am glad to be on ignore..but I am not am I?