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Police Shoot Unarmed Man With His Hands Up

Hatuey

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https://ca.news.yahoo.com/police-shoot-unarmed-man-hands-094600924.html

[FONT=&quot]Police are investigating after an officer shot a therapist who was looking after an autistic man while he was lying in the street with his hands up.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Charles Kinsey, was trying to get his 27-year-old patient to return to a treatment facility in Miami, Florida, when police arrived in response to reports of a man threatening to shoot himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Video shot by a witness who saw the scene unfold shows the 47-year-old Mr Kinsey lying in the street on his back and with his hands in the air, while his patient plays with a toy truck and screams at him to "shut up".[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mr Kinsey can be heard shouting to the officers, who are armed with rifles: "All he has is a toy truck. I'm a behaviour therapist at a group home." [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]He also urges his patient to comply with the officers: "Rinaldo, please be still, Rinaldo. Sit down Rinaldo, lay on your stomach."


Badly trained people, make terrible decisions. This is one of those cases. We need better police training.
[/FONT]
 

Renae

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HenryChinaski

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Where's the shooting on the video?

Also the police were told he had a weapon, another man says that he doesn't, the guy isn't responding to orders.... I'd need to see the shoot to pass judgement. That video doesn't show it. At least not that I saw.

There is no way that that was a proper shoot.
 

Lutherf

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Where's the shooting on the video?

Also the police were told he had a weapon, another man says that he doesn't, the guy isn't responding to orders.... I'd need to see the shoot to pass judgement. That video doesn't show it. At least not that I saw.

The guy that got shot is the one laying on the ground with his hands up. The other guy is obviously mentally deficient. Even if the call was about a guy with a gun there is nothing in that clip which would lead me to believe there was an imminent threat. At some point, as a cop, you need to realize that what you are seeing and the call you got just don't match up. At that point you stand down and reassess the situation.

My first thought is that one of the cops shot accidentally or reflexively but, apparently, the victim was shot THREE TIMES. That's not indicative of an accident.

Now, all that being said, we didn't see video of the actual shooting so a lot of stuff could have happened that warranted pulling the trigger but after looking at the interview with the victim my instincts tell me that one of the cops just plain lost it.
 

Vox

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With automatic weapons, one accidental touch to the trigger can fire three shots.

It doesn't take three pulls.

So IF they were carrying M-16s, for example, that could explain an accidental three shots.
 

Josie

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Skeptic Bob

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I have zero problem believing a police officer mishandled this situation. I have a cousin with Down Syndrom who was beaten by cops because they felt they knew better than the special ed coach how to deal with his emotional outburst at a sporting event. By the time the cops showed up the coach, with training in the matter, had everything under control. But the cops specialize in escalation and they ignored the coach's advice and instead marched right up to my cousin and grabbed him and started yelling questions at him. With untrained thugs like that my cousin is lucky he only ended up in the hospital.
 

Hatuey

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Might want to add that he was shot in the leg. I think police officer either accidentally fired or really didn't know what he was doing.

Of course you do, of course you do.
 

ttwtt78640

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Might want to add that he was shot in the leg. I think police officer either accidentally fired or really didn't know what he was doing.

In either case that would not fly if the victim was a cop laying down with his hands up. If one brings a gun, aims it and then fires it then that pretty much seals the "intent" deal.
 

Josie

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Of course you do, of course you do.

??

You clearly also believe that because you said that police officers need more training.
 

Ikari

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I have zero problem believing a police officer mishandled this situation. I have a cousin with Down Syndrom who was beaten by cops because they felt they knew better than the special ed coach how to deal with his emotional outburst at a sporting event. By the time the cops showed up the coach, with training in the matter, had everything under control. But the cops specialize in escalation and they ignored the coach's advice and instead marched right up to my cousin and grabbed him and started yelling questions at him. With untrained thugs like that my cousin is lucky he only ended up in the hospital.

And this is one of the major problems with police training. Cops escalate. There was a video not so long ago about some punk kid who gets pulled over. The cop is talking to him, but the kid is pulling the "these are my rights" "I refuse to talk" blah blah things that punk kids do. The officer escalates the situation, something where he could have called in backup, could have let the kid sit there in the car until then, but instead pulls the "respect my authority" thing. Eventually there is a scuffle. The cop improperly tazes the kid, who jumps up, and then the cop shoots the kid dead.

Cop gets away with it because the kid threw a punch, but that all could have been avoided if cops were trained NOT to escalate.
 

Josie

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In either case that would not fly if the victim was a cop laying down with his hands up. If one brings a gun, aims it and then fires it then that pretty much seals the "intent" deal.

We don't know exactly what happened. The cop obviously had his gun drawn and was pointing it at the guy on the ground because that's what cops are supposed to do when they feel like the person is a threat. The question is why he fired the gun -- "because he hates XYZ people" isn't the only conclusion that can be made. It COULD be the conclusion, but we don't know that for sure.

There is no definite WHY until an investigation is done and we know all the facts.
 

Hatuey

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??

You clearly also believe that because you said that police officers need more training.

No, that is what you read in my statement. Lack of training, does not necessarily mean it was an accident. It just means what he did was wrong. If the cop purposely did all of this because of his bad training. It wouldn't have been 'an accident'. It would have just been **** training, and a bad cop who did something wrong.

Nice try though.
 

Ikari

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We don't know exactly what happened. The cop obviously had his gun drawn and was pointing it at the guy on the ground because that's what cops are supposed to do when they feel like the person is a threat. The question is why he fired the gun -- "because he hates XYZ people" isn't the only conclusion that can be made. It COULD be the conclusion, but we don't know that for sure.

There is no definite WHY until an investigation is done and we know all the facts.

He shot three times, so it seems to eliminate "accidental" as an option.
 

Josie

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No, that is what you read in my statement. Lack of training, does not necessarily mean it was an accident. It just means what he did was wrong. If the cop purposely did all of this because of his bad training. It wouldn't have been 'an accident'. It would have just been **** training, and a bad cop who did something wrong.

Nice try though.

I agree with you.
 

Josie

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He shot three times, so it seems to eliminate "accidental" as an option.

But did he pull the trigger three times?
 

Hatuey

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He shot three times, so it seems to eliminate "accidental" as an option.

She is working really hard to defend shooting a man on the ground while his hands are up, let her.
 

Josie

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She is working really hard to defend shooting a man on the ground while his hands are up, let her.

I'm not defending anyone. I'm interested in knowing the facts and details of the case before coming to a decision. You've already indicted and convicted the police officer.
 

ttwtt78640

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We don't know exactly what happened. The cop obviously had his gun drawn and was pointing it at the guy on the ground because that's what cops are supposed to do when they feel like the person is a threat. The question is why he fired the gun -- "because he hates XYZ people" isn't the only conclusion that can be made. It COULD be the conclusion, but we don't know that for sure.

There is no definite WHY until an investigation is done and we know all the facts.

That (bolded above) is true but we do have the fact that an unarmed man lying on his back with his arms raised above his head was shot, asked a police officer at the scene why he was shot and was told "I don't know". He was then handcuffed (because?) and transported to the hospital about 20 minutes later. Certainly if someone deserves to be shot by police then they deserve to be told why and should be charged with a (serious?) crime. The lame "reason" that police thought you might have had a gun should not cut it.
 

Ikari

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But did he pull the trigger three times?

Are cops walking around with fully automatic weapons? I don't even think the SWAT teams have fully automatic weapons. The standard service weapons for police officers are not fully automatic. If he pulled his pistol, he would have to have pulled the trigger three times.
 

Renae

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There is no way that that was a proper shoot.

There is an excellent chance you are right. But we haven't all the information. Too many times the initial "OMG OUTRAGE!!!" turns out to be not so much.
 

Josie

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Are cops walking around with fully automatic weapons? I don't even think the SWAT teams have fully automatic weapons. The standard service weapons for police officers are not fully automatic. If he pulled his pistol, he would have to have pulled the trigger three times.

If he pulled the trigger three times then the officer obviously shot the guy's leg on purpose. You can't accidentally pull a trigger three times.
 

Ikari

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If he pulled the trigger three times then they guy obviously shot the guy's leg on purpose. You can't accidentally pull a trigger three times.

Exactly, and the police aren't running around with fully automatic weapons, their service weapons are semi-automatic. One pull, one bullet. Possibly decked out SWAT has fully automatic, but even that I doubt.
 
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