Police Marksmanship strikes again

[TurtleDude]

I am watching a video on the local news where the cops in NYC missed a perp and shot two citizens. grazed one and kneecapped another


Police charge suspect after chase that injured two bystanders in NYC | Reuters


I realize cops have a tough job but I also listen to a couple posters tell us only police can be trusted with things like Glock 17 pistols

 

[ecofarm]

I realize cops have a tough job but I also listen to a couple posters tell us only police can be trusted with things like Glock 17 pistols

The same posters probably object to the Glock 7.

 

[TurtleDude]

The same posters probably object to the Glock 7.

LOL, the cops should be limited to the same pistol capacity as their masters (the citizens)

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

I am watching a video on the local news where the cops in NYC missed a perp and shot two citizens. grazed one and kneecapped another


Police charge suspect after chase that injured two bystanders in NYC | Reuters

.
I realize cops have a tough job but I also listen to a couple posters tell us only police can be trusted with things like Glock 17 pistols

Cops are notoriously bad shots. They don't get range time at work because of the cost of ammo and won't spend their own money to have range time, which could save the lives of the innocent as well as their own life. Most cops only use guns as necessary tools instead of having an interest in them that goes beyond strapping one on while on duty. They aren't proficient with them because they don't shoot them.

Its like a major league baseball player never getting any batting practice during the season or off-season and only stepping into the batter's box during games. How successful would that hitter be?

 

[CalGun]

Its an impossible job. Do it right; you'd never know, do it wrong and get carried away to the morgue or make national headlines. I have no idea what the circumstances are in this case, but those are the truths. 800,000 police officers in America and way too many people expect perfection.

 

[reinoe]

800,000 police officers in America and way too many people expect basic competence.

 

[APACHERAT]

As an American I'm embarrassed how bad so many large law enforcement agencies marksmanship has become over the past few decades.

The police combat pistol training should be returned back to NRA certified instructors.

Whatever happened to Jack Weaver and Jeff Cooper, both legendary peace officers before political correctness and progressive (politically) police chiefs started ####### up American law enforcement ?

Personaly I prefer the Weaver stance.

 

[Wehrwolfen]

The same posters probably object to the Glock 7.

In the end it's not the gun, but the person behind the gun. Police Depts., like the NYPD should require that their officers continue shooter training and shoot at least once a month and under realistic conditions. What do they say? Train like you fight and fight like you've trained.

 

[ecofarm]

In the end it's not the gun, but the person behind the gun. Police Depts., like the NYPD should require that their officers continue shooter training and shoot at least once a month and under realistic conditions. What do they say? Train like you fight and fight like you've trained.

Actually, my comment is about the gun.

 

[MaggieD]

Its an impossible job. Do it right; you'd never know, do it wrong and get carried away to the morgue or make national headlines. I have no idea what the circumstances are in this case, but those are the truths. 800,000 police officers in America and way too many people expect perfection.

One would THINK that basic competence was involved here. If you're shooting at someone (who, as it turns out, didn't even have a gun) in Times Square!!! You'd better have a damned good reason. And they didn't. And you'd better not miss. And they did.

 

[tech30528]

Any officer who can not prove proficiency should not be allowed to carry. Those people who got shot should be suing the crap out of the city for creating an unsafe condition. A citizen defending themselves and hitting innocent people would surely be arrested and charged, the police should be too. Any marksmanship instructor will tell you not to pull the trigger if you do not know where the shot will end up. Irresponsible use of firearms, even by police, is dangerous.

 

[ecofarm]

You'd better have a damned good reason. And they didn't. And you'd better not miss. And they did.

If that's true, they should obviously be hammered. Unlike Russia and the Iranian regime, we frown on such actions.

 

[Tigger]

I'll throw my two cents in on this......

A large part of it has to do withe poor quality and even smaller quantity of training that officers get with their sidearms these days. Qualification courses rarely have anything to do with the sort of active shooting situations that officers will see on the street. Additionally there is a mentality in many departments that pushes officers away from getting additional training on their own time and dime. For example, troopers with the Massachusetts State Police MAY NOT participate in any shooting activity (training, competition, etc...) that includes simulating shooting a suspect or target in the head. That rules out almost all self-defense training classes available on the market today.

I'm also going to defer to the opinion of a legend of the NYPD, Jim Cirillo. I had the pleasure of meeting Jim through the IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association) about a decade ago, before his unfortunate passing a few years back. I had the opportunity to talk to him at several matches, and get his viewpoint on a number of shooting related topics, including why a recent (at that time) report indicated that NYPD fired so many more rounds with a much lower "hit percentage" then during his time on the force. His exact response.... "It's those God-Damn slab-sided guns!!!" by which he meant the semi-auto Glocks that officers now carry compared to the 4" bbl revolver that he carried during his career. When I asked him to expound on that idea he told me that in his day officers weren't properly trained to reload their guns, so they knew they had essentially 6 rounds to end a gunfight. Any more than that and they were likely to get shot by the criminals while they were trying to reload. He further commented that nowadays, where officers routinely carry 70+ rounds of ammo and can reload in a matter of a second or two, there is a mentality to just keep shooting and eventually one round will find the target.

 

[Wehrwolfen]

Actually, my comment is about the gun.

Agreed, the majority of anti-gun people point to the gun as the problem. I'm on your side in this. They forget that the gun is an inanimate object actuated by the operator. The point I was trying to make is that most police officers seldom fire their weapons on the range after the academy.

How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, practice, practice. How do you prevent accidents and the injuring of by standers by police officers. It's practice, practice and more practice. Shooting under stress during an encounter has to be impressed on police officers. The only way to do that is to practice. Every SWAT team practices that on at least a weekly basis. Police officers on the 'Beat' seldom get that opportunity.

 

[Jerry]

I am watching a video on the local news where the cops in NYC missed a perp and shot two citizens. grazed one and kneecapped another


Police charge suspect after chase that injured two bystanders in NYC | Reuters


I realize cops have a tough job but I also listen to a couple posters tell us only police can be trusted with things like Glock 17 pistols

The New York Trigger strikes again!

 

[ecofarm]

Agreed, the majority of anti-gun people point to the gun as the problem. I'm on your side in this. They forget that the gun is an inanimate object actuated by the operator. The point I was trying to make is that most police officers seldom fire their weapons on the range after the academy.

My point was that most gun-haters are ignorant to the point that they would oppose an imaginary gun.

 

[Jerry]

LOL, the cops should be limited to the same pistol capacity as their masters (the citizens)

A citizenry who does not check their government is like a parent who never disciplines their child.

 

[Jerry]

Cops are notoriously bad shots. They don't get range time at work because of the cost of ammo and won't spend their own money to have range time, which could save the lives of the innocent as well as their own life. Most cops only use guns as necessary tools instead of having an interest in them that goes beyond strapping one on while on duty. They aren't proficient with them because they don't shoot them.

Its like a major league baseball player never getting any batting practice during the season or off-season and only stepping into the batter's box during games. How successful would that hitter be?

Just another reason why people "need" to privately own the same firearms police and military do: some of them are police and military and need to practice on their own time&dime. More are armed guards or couriers. There are also folks who know they could be called to service in an emergency and want to be ready.

And there are also zombies to consider.

 

[VanceMack]

Its an impossible job. Do it right; you'd never know, do it wrong and get carried away to the morgue or make national headlines. I have no idea what the circumstances are in this case, but those are the truths. 800,000 police officers in America and way too many people expect perfection.

I dont expect perfection. I also dont expect to get shot in the ass by cops while they are trying to do their job.
"The two officers, who have four years experience between them, fired a total of three shots after the man mimicked pulling out a weapon, but missed the suspect and wounded two women instead, city officials confirmed on Sunday."

 

[Dittohead not!]

Cops are notoriously bad shots. They don't get range time at work because of the cost of ammo and won't spend their own money to have range time, which could save the lives of the innocent as well as their own life. Most cops only use guns as necessary tools instead of having an interest in them that goes beyond strapping one on while on duty. They aren't proficient with them because they don't shoot them.

Its like a major league baseball player never getting any batting practice during the season or off-season and only stepping into the batter's box during games. How successful would that hitter be?

Seems like a few boxes of ammunition for the cops would be a good investment.

 

[Jerry]

Seems like a few boxes of ammunition for the cops would be a good investment.

And give them a normal trigger.

 

[SMTA]

I am watching a video on the local news where the cops in NYC missed a perp and shot two citizens. grazed one and kneecapped another


Police charge suspect after chase that injured two bystanders in NYC | Reuters


I realize cops have a tough job but I also listen to a couple posters tell us only police can be trusted with things like Glock 17 pistols

Match poorly trained cops with guns with unreasonable trigger pulls and this is the result.

The NYPD shot 7 or so innocent bystanders a year or so ago.

Morons.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Match poorly trained cops with guns with unreasonable trigger pulls and this is the result.

The NYPD shot 7 or so innocent bystanders a year or so ago.

Morons.

unreasonable trigger pulls? Does that mean hair triggers, or ones so hard to pull that it's difficult to aim? I had no idea official police weapons had different trigger mechanisms.

 

[SMTA]

unreasonable trigger pulls? Does that mean hair triggers, or ones so hard to pull that it's difficult to aim? I had no idea official police weapons had different trigger mechanisms.

Excessively strong.

It's called the Glock NY trigger.

I believe it is 14~16 lbs.

Now try and pull that trigger accurately on a 2 1/2 lb. gun and hit anything.

Unbelievably ignorant department management.

 

[CalGun]

First please note I haven't bothered to try and find out why there were shots fired by the police. So I can't comment on that. Your assertion they best have a damned good reason is correct, but to state they didn't I can't tell until I learn of the facts. As for missing; well if they had a damned good reason to shoot I can excuse missing because few people have ever found themselves in that situation and even fewer do it perfectly. Like I said, 800,000 police officers in America, there are going to be bad apples, and they are going to make huge mistakes. If they do you know about it, and if they go about thier job routinely with perfect you don't ever hear a peep about it.

One would THINK that basic competence was involved here. If you're shooting at someone (who, as it turns out, didn't even have a gun) in Times Square!!! You'd better have a damned good reason. And they didn't. And you'd better not miss. And they did.