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Police kill security guard who apprehended criminal

Mr Person

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Officers from several police departments had responded to reports of a shooting early Sunday morning at Manny’s Luxury Lounge in Robbins, Ill., said Sophia Ansari, a spokeswoman for the Cook County Sheriff’s Office. Witnesses told the police that a fight had broken out and someone had started shooting. After the authorities responded, a police officer shot the guard, Jemel Roberson, 26, who had a gun, Ms. Ansari said. Mr. Roberson died at the hospital.


Witnesses said that people in the crowd had yelled to arriving police officers that Mr. Roberson, who was wearing gear that read “Security,” was a guard. Ms. Ansari confirmed that Mr. Roberson worked for the bar. “Everybody was screaming out, ‘Security!’,” one witness, Adam Harris, told WGN-TV. “He was a security guard. And they still did their job, and saw a black man with a gun, and basically killed him.”
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Family friends of Mr. Roberson’s said he had worked as an organist at several local churches and had once dreamed of becoming a police officer himself, according to local news reports. Mr. Roberson had a state firearm owner’s identification card, Ms. Ansari said, which authorized his possession of firearms. Mr. Roberson had planned to play later that day at New Spiritual Light Baptist Church, the pastor, Walter Turner, told the local ABC affiliate.

“How in the world does the security guard get shot by the police?” Pastor Turner said. “A young man that was literally just doing his job, and now he’s gone.”



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/us/police-officer-shoots-security-guard-chicago.html


So while it is true there was a dangerous situation - five people shot in a bar - by all accounts the cops had no reason whatsoever to think the security guard who was pinning someone down was the bad guy. Again, whomever the "bad guy" was, it was a person who was shooting at other people. The "bad guy' was not reported to have gone about pinning people to the ground. And it would seem that not only did the security guard have SECURITY on his gear, but bystanders were shouting at the police not to shoot him.



___________________________________________________________________________

Let's get a few of the usual deflections out of the way.

1. "Wait for all the facts" aka "stop talking about this story until it goes away and I don't have to address what the cops did";

---- nah, if you were about to say that you have expressed many opinions without knowing all of the facts, and you also know perfectly well that a demand for "all" the facts to come out ensures no discussion at all if it is honored because there can be no way of objectively declaring that "all" facts are known.



2. "The officer was doing his job".

-----Yeah, so was the security guard. So were the bystanders. Why couldn't the cops do their job and exercise some self-restraint until they have a clue of what is going on? Why does doing their job mean blasting away without a thought? Yeah, I think we can tell people to pre-emptively stuff that deflection/excuse.


3. "The race card".

---- It's true that this was near Chicago and the security guard was a black man, who was pinning someone (the bad guy) on the ground. It's also true that there's a long history of poorer treatment of black people by police. You can't make that disappear by screaming "race card" at it, no matter how much you try....



4. "You hate cops!"

---- "hate" is a pretty strong word there buddy, but you know what? I do despise those officers with so little self-control, so little emotional regulation, that their first instinct when frightened is to start blasting away at people. The police are supposed to be the best of us, not the weakest and worst. They're suppose to have more restraint with firearms, not less....

...what, do you like cops whose first instinct is to shoot someone? The security guard didn't shoot the bad guy. No. But the police did shoot him, even though he had the situation under control. Seems like the guard should have been a cop, and the cop should have been janitor for a kindergarten.



Enough of this!
 
Last edited:

Lutherf

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I can totally understand people being pissed off about this. Heck, they're totally justified in being pissed off about it. I can totally understand people wanting to do something to insure it never happens again.

What's your solution?
 

Spartacus FPV

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I can totally understand people being pissed off about this. Heck, they're totally justified in being pissed off about it. I can totally understand people wanting to do something to insure it never happens again.

What's your solution?

Many security guards are trained to immediately holster after using a weapon. Massad Ayoob trains civilians to remember that, "When police are looking for a person with a gun, don't be one."

You can train to mitigate the occurrences of these types of issues, but even with that, bad shoots like this will happen.
 

AGENT J

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So while it is true there was a dangerous situation - five people shot in a bar - by all accounts the cops had no reason whatsoever to think the security guard who was pinning someone down was the bad guy. Again, whomever the "bad guy" was, it was a person who was shooting at other people. The "bad guy' was not reported to have gone about pinning people to the ground. And it would seem that not only did the security guard have SECURITY on his gear, but bystanders were shouting at the police not to shoot him.



___________________________________________________________________________

Let's get a few of the usual deflections out of the way.

1. "Wait for all the facts" aka "stop talking about this story until it goes away and I don't have to address what the cops did";

---- nah, if you were about to say that you have expressed many opinions without knowing all of the facts, and you also know perfectly well that a demand for "all" the facts to come out ensures no discussion at all if it is honored because there can be no way of objectively declaring that "all" facts are known.



2. "The officer was doing his job".

-----Yeah, so was the security guard. So were the bystanders. Why couldn't the cops do their job and exercise some self-restraint until they have a clue of what is going on? Why does doing their job mean blasting away without a thought? Yeah, I think we can tell people to pre-emptively stuff that deflection/excuse.


3. "The race card".

---- It's true that this was near Chicago and the security guard was a black man, who was pinning someone (the bad guy) on the ground. It's also true that there's a long history of poorer treatment of black people by police. You can't make that disappear by screaming "race card" at it, no matter how much you try....



4. "You hate cops!"

---- "hate" is a pretty strong word there buddy, but you know what? I do despise those officers with so little self-control, so little emotional regulation, that their first instinct when frightened is to start blasting away at people. The police are supposed to be the best of us, not the weakest and worst. They're suppose to have more restraint with firearms, not less....

...what, do you like cops whose first instinct is to shoot someone? The security guard didn't shoot the bad guy. No. But the police did shoot him, even though he had the situation under control. Seems like the guard should have been a cop, and the cop should have been janitor for a kindergarten.



Enough of this!

ill post the same thing here i posted in the other thread...
not a lot of info on what happened yet . .

seems the only thing known is the crowd was telling the police he was security and he was wearing articles identifying him as such but nothing else


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ed-police-officer-responding-shooting-n935311
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/us/police-officer-shoots-security-guard-chicago.html
https://www.foxnews.com/us/cop-accidentally-kills-security-guard-at-bar-in-chicago-suburbs
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...lly-shoots-security-guard-chicago-suburbs-bar


gotta wait for more info for me to have an opinion but it does "seem" like an office with poor training and way to quick of a trigger finger . . . even in my head to invent a story that would justify the shooting it takes a lot . . .
 

Arby

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ill post the same thing here i posted in the other thread...
not a lot of info on what happened yet . .

seems the only thing known is the crowd was telling the police he was security and he was wearing articles identifying him as such but nothing else


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ed-police-officer-responding-shooting-n935311
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/us/police-officer-shoots-security-guard-chicago.html
https://www.foxnews.com/us/cop-accidentally-kills-security-guard-at-bar-in-chicago-suburbs
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...lly-shoots-security-guard-chicago-suburbs-bar


gotta wait for more info for me to have an opinion but it does "seem" like an office with poor training and way to quick of a trigger finger . . . even in my head to invent a story that would justify the shooting it takes a lot . . .
I agree with your opinion and I'd say the moment the cop saw a gun, he just opened up without assessing the situation.
You would think the cop should have realized, with the increase of gun sales and the fact that responsible citizens are
carrying weapons, it could be a possibility. He had time to aim his weapon, he had time to see if the man with a gun was
turning it on him, or just to yell "drop it" if he wasn't.
There is so much left to speculate from the initial report, we'll have to wait on the results of the investigation.
It's a sad situation no matter how you look at it.
 

Thoreau72

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As a possible solution, why do they train them to shoot first and ask questions later?

Why don't they train them to evaluate the situation first?
 

Bodhisattva

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I can totally understand people being pissed off about this. Heck, they're totally justified in being pissed off about it. I can totally understand people wanting to do something to insure it never happens again.

What's your solution?

Start prosecuting cops that shoot unarmed and/or innocent people like this one with murder 2 or negligent homicide and train them better...
 

ThoughtEx.

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This guy makes some good points.

Guardian over Warrior.

See something, say something.

Recruit officers instead of just hiring the ones that aren't eliminated.
 

akyron

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Quit beating around the bush. Are we supposed to burn down the town or not?
 

JoanDavis

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Many security guards are trained to immediately holster after using a weapon. Massad Ayoob trains civilians to remember that, "When police are looking for a person with a gun, don't be one."

You can train to mitigate the occurrences of these types of issues, but even with that, bad shoots like this will happen.

Are you blaming the security guard for his own death?

WOW - JUST WOW.
 

JoanDavis

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GOOD NEWS FOLKS. The man who actually did the shooting is safe and well. The police who murdered the black security guard will be acquitted of course. They always do.

But more importantly the shooter is probably in hospital right now enjoying a bowl of ice cream.
 

ThoughtEx.

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Quit beating around the bush. Are we supposed to burn down the town or not?

No, you only burn down the town if the cop is found not guilty or isn't charged.

It's to soon for the torches and pitchforks.
 

Maccabee

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Are you blaming the security guard for his own death?

WOW - JUST WOW.

To a much lesser extant, yes. Don't get me wrong, the officer who shot was wrong and should be fired if not charged for manslaughter depending of how Illinois defines it based on the details given out so far. But at the same time, the guard was told to drop the gun and he didn't.
 

Thoreau72

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To a much lesser extant, yes. Don't get me wrong, the officer who shot was wrong and should be fired if not charged for manslaughter depending of how Illinois defines it based on the details given out so far. But at the same time, the guard was told to drop the gun and he didn't.

You're quite the authoritarian old chap.
 

Maccabee

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You're quite the authoritarian old chap.

I view this situation like crossing the street without looking both ways and getting hit by a drunk driver. Should the driver not drink and drive? Absolutely. However, had the pedestrian looked before crossing, he probably wouldn't get hit but that's a small detail.
 

Arby

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To a much lesser extant, yes. Don't get me wrong, the officer who shot was wrong and should be fired if not charged for manslaughter depending of how Illinois defines it based on the details given out so far. But at the same time, the guard was told to drop the gun and he didn't.

The cop told him to drop the gun? I didn't hear that.
If this is true, how much time did the cop give him to drop it?
Being an armed security guard, he should have known to point it in a safe direction and put it down slowly.
From what I've read, even the bystanders told the cop he was not a shooter.
 

Maccabee

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The cop told him to drop the gun? I didn't hear that.
If this is true, how much time did the cop give him to drop it?
Being an armed security guard, he should have known to point it in a safe direction and put it down slowly.
From what I've read, even the bystanders told the cop he was not a shooter.

The guard was pointing the gun at the shooter's head/back. That doesn't leave the officer that much time in the legal sense. I don;t know how many times have he stated to drop the weapon, however.
 

Arby

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The guard was pointing the gun at the shooter's head/back. That doesn't leave the officer that much time in the legal sense. I don;t know how many times have he stated to drop the weapon, however.

I would assume the guard did have his gun trained on the suspect and I doubt he turned it toward the cop. As I've said before, if the cop had enough time to aim his weapon and his eyes focused on the guard, he could see any movement toward him and that would be reason to fire. Myself, I think he saw a gun and just fired. It seems everyone is silent on the details of this sad incident, I haven't heard anything about it since.
I'm not anti law enforcement, but gun ownership, especially carrying one in public, is a big responsibility. I keep that in mind on the rare occasion I carry my 1911.
 
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