Police found guilty of murder...really?

[Simpletruther]

Alabama police officer convicted of murder in shooting death of suicidal man | Blaze Media

An Alabama jury convicted Huntsville police Officer William Ben Darby of murder on Friday, for fatally shooting a suicidal man who was holding a gun to his own head three years ago.What are the details?On April 3, 2018, Huntsville resident Jeff Parker called 911 for help, telling dispatchers...

www.theblaze.com

First, I assume the victim was not black or this would have been a world wide exploited case.

Anyway, basically he storms in to a residence where a man is holding a gun on himself threatening suicide. He orders the man to drop his gun, when he doesn't the officer shoots him dead.

IMO most people are going to extremes on these kinds of cases, either calling it murder (like the jury did) or saying it's justified and defending the cops like the local police did.

I think society should often take a middle road on these kinds of cases. No matter how well trained or normally cool and logical a cop ((or soldier) is, the survival instincts can cause them to act prematurely when deadly force is present possibly against them.

If we expect perfection and robotic precision from cops and understandable misjudgements result in prison, smart people will not become cops.

This suicidal person obviously was emotionally unstable, and could have at any moment turned the gun and shot both cops. The cop then would have been second guessed why he didn't stop the threat.

It was bad policing, and he should have been banned from that kind of work, but murder is too much.

The locals expect this to be overturned, not sure why.

 

[Simpletruther]

Alabama police officer convicted of murder in shooting death of suicidal man | Blaze Media

An Alabama jury convicted Huntsville police Officer William Ben Darby of murder on Friday, for fatally shooting a suicidal man who was holding a gun to his own head three years ago.What are the details?On April 3, 2018, Huntsville resident Jeff Parker called 911 for help, telling dispatchers...

www.theblaze.com

First, I assume the victim was not black or this would have been a world wide exploited case.

Anyway, basically he storms in to a residence where a man is holding a gun on himself threatening suicide. He orders the man to drop his gun, when he doesn't the officer shoots him dead.

IMO most people are going to extremes on these kinds of cases, either calling it murder (like the jury did) or saying it's justified and defending the cops like the local police did.

I think society should often take a middle road on these kinds of cases. No matter how well trained or normally cool and logical a cop ((or soldier) is, the survival instincts can cause them to act prematurely when deadly force is present possibly against them.

If we expect perfection and robotic precision from cops and understandable misjudgements result in prison, smart people will not become cops.

This suicidal person obviously was emotionally unstable, and could have at any moment turned the gun and shot both cops. The cop then would have been second guessed why he didn't stop the threat.

It was bad policing, and he should have been banned from that kind of work, but murder is too much.

The locals expect this to be overturned, not sure why.

Anybody agree or disagree?

 

[Simpletruther]

Alabama police officer convicted of murder in shooting death of suicidal man | Blaze Media

An Alabama jury convicted Huntsville police Officer William Ben Darby of murder on Friday, for fatally shooting a suicidal man who was holding a gun to his own head three years ago.What are the details?On April 3, 2018, Huntsville resident Jeff Parker called 911 for help, telling dispatchers...

www.theblaze.com

First, I assume the victim was not black or this would have been a world wide exploited case.

Anyway, basically he storms in to a residence where a man is holding a gun on himself threatening suicide. He orders the man to drop his gun, when he doesn't the officer shoots him dead.

IMO most people are going to extremes on these kinds of cases, either calling it murder (like the jury did) or saying it's justified and defending the cops like the local police did.

I think society should often take a middle road on these kinds of cases. No matter how well trained or normally cool and logical a cop ((or soldier) is, the survival instincts can cause them to act prematurely when deadly force is present possibly against them.

If we expect perfection and robotic precision from cops and understandable misjudgements result in prison, smart people will not become cops.

This suicidal person obviously was emotionally unstable, and could have at any moment turned the gun and shot both cops. The cop then would have been second guessed why he didn't stop the threat.

It was bad policing, and he should have been banned from that kind of work, but murder is too much.

The locals expect this to be overturned, not sure why.

Agree? Disagree?

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Agree? Disagree?

He killed a person when he did not have to, he could have walked away from the threat

ie the cop murdered someone they were likely asked to help, not kill

 

[Tiny]

I think this one is a grey area. I know that cops are trained to shoot someone who is, say, brandishing some kind of weapon. Because they can hurt someone or the cop. No question there. However, this man wasn't brandishing in a manner that threatened anyone. So, shooting him dead might seem excessive force. That being said, the cops probably thought that he was mentally unstable (a reasonable assumption) and he could start shooting the cops. Which again, isn't unreasonable.

At the end, I side with the cops. There is no telling what an emotionally unstable man with a gun might do. Cops are human too and they want to go home alive every night to their families.

 

[Simpletruther]

He killed a person when he did not have to, he could have walked away from the threat

ie the cop murdered someone they were likely asked to help, not kill

No cop ever has to kill anyone.

I think this one is a grey area. I know that cops are trained to shoot someone who is, say, brandishing some kind of weapon. Because they can hurt someone or the cop. No question there. However, this man wasn't brandishing in a manner that threatened anyone. So, shooting him dead might seem excessive force. That being said, the cops probably thought that he was mentally unstable (a reasonable assumption) and he could start shooting the cops. Which again, isn't unreasonable.

At the end, I side with the cops. There is no telling what an emotionally unstable man with a gun might do. Cops are human too and they want to go home alive every night to their families.

I side partially. I think a good cop just backs away if he feels in danger here. Just take cover behind a door or whatever.

 

[Tiny]

I side partially. I think a good cop just backs away if he feels in danger here. Just take cover behind a door or whatever.

But he might point his gun at someone other than the cop. He could shoot someone else who was in the same house, or he could run outside to shoot at a bystander.

 

[armycowboy]

But he might point his gun at someone other than the cop. He could shoot someone else who was in the same house, or he could run outside to shoot at a bystander.

He might, but he didn't. He could have, but he didn't. Bad shoot and I'm glad he was convicted. Cops like that don't belong on the streets.

 

[Tiny]

He might, but he didn't. He could have, but he didn't. Bad shoot and I'm glad he was convicted. Cops like that don't belong on the streets.

And how was the cop to know what he would have or wouldn't have done? I know we are just speculating about it, but you realize that if the cop didn't shoot him dead, he very well could have killed someone? Can you tell me with 100% certainty that this would not have happened?

 

[armycowboy]

And how was the cop to know what he would have or wouldn't have done? I know we are just speculating about it, but you realize that if the cop didn't shoot him dead, he very well could have killed someone? Can you tell me with 100% certainty that this would not have happened?

You can't kill somebody, especially someone pointing a gun at his OWN head, because there's a chance he might decide to point it at someone else. The jury got this one right.

 

[Tiny]

You can't kill somebody, especially someone pointing a gun at his OWN head, because there's a chance he might decide to point it at someone else. The jury got this one right.

The fact that he was pointing a gun at his own head suggests that he was very likely mentally or emotionally unstable. This isn't an unreasonable assumption. And when a mentally or emotionally unstable person has a gun....it is also not unreasonable to think he might turn it on someone. There is no telling what a mentally/emotionally unstable person might do, and it appears that the cops erred on the side of caution. And I don't know if the cops yelled at him to put his weapon down. If they did and he didn't obey, then shooting him is justified.

 

[armycowboy]

The fact that he was pointing a gun at his own head suggests that he was very likely mentally or emotionally unstable. This isn't an unreasonable assumption. And when a mentally or emotionally unstable person has a gun....it is also not unreasonable to think he might turn it on someone. There is no telling what a mentally/emotionally unstable person might do, and it appears that the cops erred on the side of caution. And I don't know if the cops yelled at him to put his weapon down. If they did and he didn't obey, then shooting him is justified.

If they had erred on the side of caution, they wouldn't have committed murder. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you think. The cop is going to jail for a long time and deservedly so. If he was so scared for his own safety that he had to shoot a suicidal man, he had no business becoming a cop (or any other job, which required carrying a firearm and judgement under stressful conditions.) I'm glad I never deployed with an individual like this, working for me.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

The first officer to arrive was Genisha Pegues, a senior officer to Darby, who testified against Darby, telling "the jury that she was de-escalating the situation before he got there," AL.com reported. But Darby testified "that he shot parker in defense of himself and other officers because he feared Parker might shoot them."

According to The Hill:

Body camera footage from Darby shows him running into the house with a shotgun and shooting Parker within 11 seconds of entering.

"Point your f---ing gun at him," Darby yelled at Pegues before ordering Parker to drop his weapon, which was not aimed at the officers, the footage showed.

When Parker didn't drop the gun, Darby shot him in the face.

The guy called 9/11 and wanted help, Darby was an idiot and shot the man who wanted help.

 

[Tiny]

If they had erred on the side of caution, they wouldn't have committed murder.

It's murder to some people, not to others.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you think.

Of course what I think doesn't matter. The only people whose thinking matters to you are important people like judges and people in the judicial system.

The cop is going to jail for a long time and deservedly so.

How did he deserve it?

If he was so scared for his own safety that he had to shoot a suicidal man

He probably wasn't being scared for his own safety. He probably was trying to prevent the man from possibly harming others.

And yes I know the man was suicidal, however that's not the only part. He was using a gun. I can see that if there is a suicidal patient who is trying to kill himself by overdosing on barbiturates or something, and a cop shoots him, yeah that would indeed be wrong, because overdosing on barbiturates does not have the potential to harm other people. But this man had a gun in his hand. And he was very possibly mentally unstable. This is a very dangerous situation.

, he had no business becoming a cop (or any other job, which required carrying a firearm and judgement under stressful conditions.) I'm glad I never deployed with an individual like this, working for me.

No offense but it sounds to me like you are the one who has no business being a cop. Apparently you think that mentally unstable people who are holding a gun can only possibly hurt themselves. They will never hurt bystanders.

 

[Utility Man]

Hard to believe anyone could defend that cops actions.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

........Pegues testified that she believed she was de-escalating the situation with Parker — until Darby pushed past her and Beckles to take over the situation.

Darby testified that he took over because Pegues was “failing to control the situation” and not “protecting herself.”

When Darby first walked up to the home, he shouted at Pegues to “Point your f---ing gun at him,” video footage revealed. Within about 20 seconds, Darby pushed past Beckles and Pegues—both his senior officers—and entered the front room of the home. Darby himself told Parker to drop the gun and within 11 seconds of entering the home, Darby shot him in the face........

Cop testifies against fellow officer charged with murder

Officer William "Ben" Darby testified that Officer Genisha Pegues put herself in danger. She testified the situation was de-escalating until Darby showed up and killed an armed suicidal man.

www.al.com

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guess if we look on the bright side, we have good cops testifying against bad ones.

Like, everything was going swell until Darby showed up and shot dude in the face.

 

[Simpletruther]

But he might point his gun at someone other than the cop. He could shoot someone else who was in the same house, or he could run outside to shoot at a bystander.

I think he would need a better reason to gun him down than he might do something.

 

[Simpletruther]

He might, but he didn't. He could have, but he didn't. Bad shoot and I'm glad he was convicted. Cops like that don't belong on the streets.

So what if the cop takes cover, and the guy shoots his wife and kids in the next room?

 

[calamity]

Agree? Disagree?

You oversimplified the situation, IMO.

 

[Simpletruther]

You oversimplified the situation, IMO.

Can you elaborate?

I feel like most everyone else is trying to oversimplify it and make it black and white(murder versus justified). Life sometimes isn't that clear cut.

 

[calamity]

Can you elaborate?

I feel like most everyone else is trying to oversimplify it and make it black and white(murder versus justified). Life sometimes isn't that clear cut.

We don't know what the jury does. They convicted this cop, in Alabama of all places. Odds are pretty good this was a bad shoot.

 

[snakestretcher]

And how was the cop to know what he would have or wouldn't have done? I know we are just speculating about it, but you realize that if the cop didn't shoot him dead, he very well could have killed someone? Can you tell me with 100% certainty that this would not have happened?

De-escalation. Many police forces, including our own here in England, employ officers specially trained in techniques designed to attempt to end situations like this, peacefully. It appears US police training is inadequate in many areas, including this.

Understanding key factors for police de-escalation of potential suicides

The purpose of suicide intervention is not to solve the person’s crisis but effectively transition them from a street critical incident to treatment

www.police1.com

 

[Simpletruther]

We don't know what the jury does. They convicted this cop, in Alabama of all places. Odds are pretty good this was a bad shoot.

Maybe. But if taken at face value, many hear still see it as a bad shot. At face value I argue it isn't murder, but it isn't totally justified either.

 

[Tiny]

I think he would need a better reason to gun him down than he might do something.

So, if there is a madman running around waving a knife menacingly, but he hasn't killed anybody yet. He might kill someone soon, maybe, we don't know, but the cop shouldn't do anything to stop him, because it would be wrong, according to you. The only time a cop should try and subdue someone is till after he has harmed or killed someone.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

So, if there is a madman running around waving a knife menacingly, but he hasn't killed anybody yet. He might kill someone soon, maybe, we don't know, but the cop shouldn't do anything to stop him, because it would be wrong, according to you. The only time a cop should try and subdue someone is till after he has harmed or killed someone.

Which is different then shooting a person in his house sitting on a couch with a gun to his own head is it not

Details do matter, the guy was primarily a threat to himself, at the time of being shot. If that situation changed then shooting him might have been justified.

 

[vanceen]

If the guy was simply holding a gun to his own head and had made no threatening moves against the cops or other people, the shooting was unjustified.