Police Corruption

[Patrickt]

This is the first of hopefully a series of posts about what is and isn't police corruption.

Today's question is about cops getting half-priced, or free, meals in restaurants. Is that corruption? Is it a problem?

I don't want to sandbag anyone so I'll give you some examples.

Our department did not allow officers to get half-priced or free meals. At one point the union was getting signatures on a letter asking that the regulation be changed so officers could get free meals but the letter was never submitted because most of the officers refused to sign it.

At one point when I was a supervisor an officer told me he liked to eat in a certain restaurant but it was such a hassle with the manager demanding that he not pay that he'd quit going in. I went and spoke with the manager and explained it was against the rules. He explained it was their corporate policy to give police officers discounts or free meals and there were no strings attached.

"I suspected it was because out of 36 officers, only three took the free meal."
"How do you know the number."
"We keep track. That's corporate policy, too."
"If there are no strings attached, why keep track?"

I stopped a traffic violator one day and had already given him a warning a month before and I was writing him a ticket. He said, "I'm the manager of the Waterwheel Restaurant."
"I know."
"Have you been getting free meals there?"
"Nope. Don't believe in it."
"Well, a lot of your buddies and sergeants have been getting free meals."
"Sign here. It's not admitting guilt it's simply acknowledging that you received a copy of the ticket. It's a real shame one of those other guys didn't stop you, isn't it?"
He glared a minute, laughed, and said, "I guess it is."

For the restaurants, it's sort of like Donald Trump's bribing of politicians. They give free meals so when they need something the cops will do what they want. Some of the cafes that stayed open after the bars closed wanted to give free meals so cops would eat there and there would be less trouble.

When I was in training I was told my older officers that the pay wasn't good and the police discounts should be considered a legitimate fringe benefit.

Two benefits we did allow. Officers got 40 minutes for a lunch break and sometimes they didn't get that if it was busy. So, restaurants were allowed to bump the officers order up so he could get it and get out. Also, if you were called away in the middle of the meal the restaurant was allowed to put it in the oven and keep it warm till you got back.

So, what do you think?

 

[MaggieD]

This is the first of hopefully a series of posts about what is and isn't police corruption.

Today's question is about cops getting half-priced, or free, meals in restaurants. Is that corruption? Is it a problem?

I don't want to sandbag anyone so I'll give you some examples.

Our department did not allow officers to get half-priced or free meals. At one point the union was getting signatures on a letter asking that the regulation be changed so officers could get free meals but the letter was never submitted because most of the officers refused to sign it.

At one point when I was a supervisor an officer told me he liked to eat in a certain restaurant but it was such a hassle with the manager demanding that he not pay that he'd quit going in. I went and spoke with the manager and explained it was against the rules. He explained it was their corporate policy to give police officers discounts or free meals.

"I suspected it was because out of 36 officers, only three took the free meal."
"How do you know the number."
"We keep track. That's corporate policy, too."

I stopped a traffic violator one day and had already given him a warning a month before and I was writing him a ticket. He said, "I'm the manager of the Waterwheel Restaurant."
"I know."
"Have you been getting free meals there?"
"Nope. Don't believe in it."
"Well, a lot of your buddies and sergeants have been getting free meals."
"Sign here. It's not admitting guilt it's simply acknowledging that you received a copy of the ticket. It's a real shame one of those other guys didn't stop you, isn't it?"
He glared a minute, laughed, and said, "I guess it is."

For the restaurants, it's sort of like Donald Trump's bribing of politicians. They give free meals so when they need something the cops will do what they want. Some of the cafes that stayed open after the bars closed wanted to give free meals so cops would eat there and there would be less trouble.

When I was in training I was told my older officers that the pay wasn't good and the police discounts should be considered a legitimate fringe benefit.

So, what do you think?

They give discounted meals for many reasons and expectations, I'd guess. In my opinion, the MAIN one is that it's good for security to have cops coming and going with some regularity.

 

[instagramsci]

id think a more appropriate discussion on police corruption would be on something like the blue wall of silence as opposed to some free french fries

 

[Patrickt]

They give discounted meals for many reasons and expectations, I'd guess. In my opinion, the MAIN one is that it's good for security to have cops coming and going with some regularity.

I know that. Do you approve of restaurants buying extra police protection by giving officers free meals?

I am curious. What makes you think that's the MAIN one?

 

[KevinKohler]

I never charged cops for coffe or soup at one of the places I managed. They do a ****ty, thankless job. It was my way of saying thanks. They accepted because I told them it was the only way they were getting coffe. I've only gotten one speeding ticket in my life, and I paid it, because....gasp....I was speeding.

 

[Patrickt]

I never charged cops for coffe or soup at one of the places I managed. They do a ****ty, thankless job. It was my way of saying thanks. They accepted because I told them it was the only way they were getting coffe. I've only gotten one speeding ticket in my life, and I paid it, because....gasp....I was speeding.

I was a cop for thirty years. I thought it was a great job. When I retired the department had a party and I was surprised at how many people I'd arrested or sent to prison showed up for my retirement. I didn't consider it thankless, either.

I didn't mind people offering but I also supported the department's policy on not allowing officers to take freebies.

But, tell me, Kevin, if I had stopped in an told you that I'd been told of the free coffee or breakfasts and that it was against department policy and asked you to please quit making the offer, what would you have done?

 

[Patrickt]

id think a more appropriate discussion on police corruption would be on something like the blue wall of silence as opposed to some free french fries

What a truly wonderful idea. I'll be looking forward to seeing the thread you start. Meanwhile, if you don't like the ones I start, feel free to ignore them.

 

[KevinKohler]

I was a cop for thirty years. I thought it was a great job. When I retired the department had a party and I was surprised at how many people I'd arrested or sent to prison showed up for my retirement. I didn't consider it thankless, either.

I didn't mind people offering but I also supported the department's policy on not allowing officers to take freebies.

But, tell me, Kevin, if I had stopped in an told you that I'd been told of the free coffee or breakfasts and that it was against department policy and asked you to please quit making the offer, what would you have done?

Respected your rules, charged you for the soup, and said thanks.

 

[KevinKohler]

Around here, I see police officers being treated disrespectfully, they tend to be viewed distrust fully, and it does seem thankless. It definitely not a job I'd want.

I get the reason for those sorts of rules...but a free coffe? Way I see it, most businesses have coffee in the break room for their employees. This is no different. Police officers are our employees. You want them to do their best, keep the caffeine flowing, eh?

 

[ttwtt78640]

I don't see offering (or accepting) a discount for police, firefighters, teachers, military or seniors as bad or corrupt - it is good business and may even make other (non-discount) customers more apt to patronize that business.

My roommate's brother used to get paid to park his (empty) marked county police car in a fast food parking lot. The manger said that it helped business by keeping drug sales activity out of his parking lot. I didn't consider that corrupt either.

 

[Carjosse]

The cafe I worked at which was part of chain had the policy of free coffee for police, firefighters, and paramedics as long as they were in uniform. It is very useful for a store to have good relationships with the emergency services, especially police, because it can be useful. I would not call it corruption.

 

[Patrickt]

Respected your rules, charged you for the soup, and said thanks.

Okay. A few questions now. Coffee free to officers in uniform. What about detectives? What if detectives wanted coffee? Would you have given them coffee?

We had officers making the same sorts of arguments that some are making here to justify freebies. One of our officers was a lay baptist preacher and he was always saying, "Preachers get discounts." I would say, "We have to be better than preachers."

But now when all the restaurants that are open late are offering free coffee and one starts offering half-priced meals. The officers start going there. So, the other restaurants, who want the benefits of having officers in, need to meet the competition, don't they?

A new restaurant opened in our town and the beat officers stopped by to meet the owners. They'd been open a month when I went in. I had rank and one of the two owners started talking to me and he said, "We're new and we're running on a shoestring. The officers have been coming in to have lunch and meet us and we offer tham the meal on the house and they've all turned us down. Honest, we like cops but we can't afford to give them all cash." I told them the overwhelming majority of the officers didn't expect anything other than a decent meal at a fair price and good service. That was the truth.

A young officer worked for our department for about 18 months and chaffed at the restrictions. He argued there was nothing wrong with free meals. Fine. It was against the rules. He was offered a job with a larger city and moved. Before he left he stopped by to tell me what a jerk I was. I wished him luck.

Six months later he stopped in again. He wanted to know if he applied to come back to our department whether or not I'd hold the things he'd said against me. I told him I wouldn't and he told me it wasn't at all like he thought. When he was a rookie, still in training, he was put out on foot in a block with a very nice restaurant that didn't give cops free meals. The restaurant's parking lot was across the street from the restaurant. The young officer's job was to write every restaurant customer a ticket for jaywalking as they went from the parking lot to the restaurant. After a few days the restaurant started graciously offering free meals to police officers. Some years later the officer was leaving because he'd gotten a job as chief in another town. We talked about how he would institute rules to stop freebies and ticket fixing when it was the norm there.

One of the problems is, citizens don't see a problem giving police officers a free meal or a television at cost.

 

[MaggieD]

I know that. Do you approve of restaurants buying extra police protection by giving officers free meals?

I am curious. What makes you think that's the MAIN one?

They aren't buying extra protection. They are encouraging patronage. If I owned a 7-11 or 24-hour gas station, you can bet I'd be offering free coffee and soda to the cops. I've worked in three restaurants. Two of them offered 50% discounts. Both told me that was the reason.

Your idea that they do it to get a break on a ticket is a little silly. Forces one to try to throw their weight around. "Hey, remember me? My restaurant gives you a discount on your meals." Pfft. I'd even be embarrassed to SAY it.

 

[MaggieD]

Okay. A few questions now. Coffee free to officers in uniform. What about detectives? What if detectives wanted coffee? Would you have given them coffee?

We had officers making the same sorts of arguments that some are making here to justify freebies. One of our officers was a lay baptist preacher and he was always saying, "Preachers get discounts." I would say, "We have to be better than preachers."

But now when all the restaurants that are open late are offering free coffee and one starts offering half-priced meals. The officers start going there. So, the other restaurants, who want the benefits of having officers in, need to meet the competition, don't they?

A new restaurant opened in our town and the beat officers stopped by to meet the owners. They'd been open a month when I went in. I had rank and one of the two owners started talking to me and he said, "We're new and we're running on a shoestring. The officers have been coming in to have lunch and meet us and we offer tham the meal on the house and they've all turned us down. Honest, we like cops but we can't afford to give them all cash." I told them the overwhelming majority of the officers didn't expect anything other than a decent meal at a fair price and good service. That was the truth.

A young officer worked for our department for about 18 months and chaffed at the restrictions. He argued there was nothing wrong with free meals. Fine. It was against the rules. He was offered a job with a larger city and moved. Before he left he stopped by to tell me what a jerk I was. I wished him luck.

Six months later he stopped in again. He wanted to know if he applied to come back to our department whether or not I'd hold the things he'd said against me. I told him I wouldn't and he told me it wasn't at all like he thought. When he was a rookie, still in training, he was put out on foot in a block with a very nice restaurant that didn't give cops free meals. The restaurant's parking lot was across the street from the restaurant. The young officer's job was to write every restaurant customer a ticket for jaywalking as they went from the parking lot to the restaurant. After a few days the restaurant started graciously offering free meals to police officers. Some years later the officer was leaving because he'd gotten a job as chief in another town. We talked about how he would institute rules to stop freebies and ticket fixing when it was the norm there.

One of the problems is, citizens don't see a problem giving police officers a free meal or a television at cost.

A few weeks ago, after more cops had been shot on the job, I went to Dunkin' Donuts, bought a gift certificate for 6 dozen donuts, stopped at my local police dept, thanked them for their fine service, wished them safe days and gave the dispatcher the gift certificate. I would have bought them donuts, but I didn't think they'd trust eating them. A senior cop came trotting out to the parking lot and thanked me profusely. It was obvious he was moved by the gesture.

Later in the week, on their Facebook page, theit showed a photo of a dozen roses dropped off for thesSme reason byaresident. They never mentioned the gift certificate. I have feeling the gift certificate may have violated rules. But I'll bet they loved the donuts.

PS...I didn't do that expecting a pass on a traffic stop.

 

[Patrickt]

They aren't buying extra protection. They are encouraging patronage. If I owned a 7-11 or 24-hour gas station, you can bet I'd be offering free coffee and soda to the cops. I've worked in three restaurants. Two of them offered 50% discounts. Both told me that was the reason.

Your idea that they do it to get a break on a ticket is a little silly. Forces one to try to throw their weight around. "Hey, remember me? My restaurant gives you a discount on your meals." Pfft. I'd even be embarrassed to SAY it.

I don't know why you say that I said they do it to get a break on a traffic ticket. They don't. But, when it comes time to get a traffic ticket, you can bet your bippy it will come up. A local used car dealer gave the police department an old used car to use on stakeouts and what have you. A few of us opposed taking the car but it was with absolutely no strings attached. A few months later a ring of thieves who had been breaking into cars to steal stereos and tape decks was caught. Guess where they'd been selling all of their stolen audio equipment. The used-car dealers dedication to law enforcement by the gift of the car sure made the paper and the chief's face was red as he explained it. So, no, getting out of a ticket isn't the main reason.

As you specified, the main reason is to get better protection than the businesses who don't give the police freebies. In our city, convenience stores sold beer. Every once in a while we'd pop a convenience store clerk, maybe more than one, for selling beer to underage kids. That "special protection" can come in handy, can't it. A "word to the wise" from a friendly cop could save a lot of problems.

 

[Thoreau72]

A friend of mine owns a popular seafood restaurant and he gives free meals to cops on just one day a week, I think Fridays. I don't see anything wrong with it, but I think it's true that some might easily see it as a 'quid pro quo' situation, implied.

 

[KevinKohler]

Okay. A few questions now. Coffee free to officers in uniform. What about detectives? What if detectives wanted coffee? Would you have given them coffee?

We had officers making the same sorts of arguments that some are making here to justify freebies. One of our officers was a lay baptist preacher and he was always saying, "Preachers get discounts." I would say, "We have to be better than preachers."

But now when all the restaurants that are open late are offering free coffee and one starts offering half-priced meals. The officers start going there. So, the other restaurants, who want the benefits of having officers in, need to meet the competition, don't they?

A new restaurant opened in our town and the beat officers stopped by to meet the owners. They'd been open a month when I went in. I had rank and one of the two owners started talking to me and he said, "We're new and we're running on a shoestring. The officers have been coming in to have lunch and meet us and we offer tham the meal on the house and they've all turned us down. Honest, we like cops but we can't afford to give them all cash." I told them the overwhelming majority of the officers didn't expect anything other than a decent meal at a fair price and good service. That was the truth.

A young officer worked for our department for about 18 months and chaffed at the restrictions. He argued there was nothing wrong with free meals. Fine. It was against the rules. He was offered a job with a larger city and moved. Before he left he stopped by to tell me what a jerk I was. I wished him luck.

Six months later he stopped in again. He wanted to know if he applied to come back to our department whether or not I'd hold the things he'd said against me. I told him I wouldn't and he told me it wasn't at all like he thought. When he was a rookie, still in training, he was put out on foot in a block with a very nice restaurant that didn't give cops free meals. The restaurant's parking lot was across the street from the restaurant. The young officer's job was to write every restaurant customer a ticket for jaywalking as they went from the parking lot to the restaurant. After a few days the restaurant started graciously offering free meals to police officers. Some years later the officer was leaving because he'd gotten a job as chief in another town. We talked about how he would institute rules to stop freebies and ticket fixing when it was the norm there.

One of the problems is, citizens don't see a problem giving police officers a free meal or a television at cost.

If they're not in uniform, how would I know they're cops? And I doubt I'd like a detective expecting me to comp his coffee or soup. As in, I ring them, they clear their throat and flash a badge, etc. Then it's no longer me being generous, it's me abiding by their expectations, which is a dick move on their part. It's exactly because it's unexpected, know what I mean?

As for comping a meal...never done that...and never would. That's a 20+ dollar gift at that point. That would just feel...wrong. I either don't tell the owners why the margin is down, or I do, and they approve, and it's like bribery.

 

[KevinKohler]

I get what patrickt is saying. It's a slippery slope. Maybe a business does it so that cops come there more often. Maybe the business values their specific patronage more than a standard civilian. Maybe due to the freebies, the cops go to that place more. While on duty.

That starts looking a lot like paid preferential treatment pretty quick.

 

[Patrickt]

And, as in our neighboring city, police officers can "encourage" restaurants to comp meals. I had a detective working a case in the neighboring city with a couple of their detectives. They stopped for lunch and when my detective put down money the other two laughed and said, "We don't pay."

My detective said, "We do."
My chief got a call the next day from the chief in the neighboring city saying our detective embarrassed his guys.

 

[Patrickt]

Another point that comes up often is simply that the restaurant owners or managers want to do it. Perhaps for some, even most, that's true. Others feel like they have to. But, it's really beside the point.

When people get stopped for speeding or running a red light the process is pretty cut and dried. They sit and wait while a tickets written. Then they have to either go to the courthouse or phone the courthouse, find out what the fine is and pay it. But, if they've had other tickets they might be told they can't pay it and have to go to court. That means a half-day off work at the best. Then, when the fine is paid, the driver loses points on his drivers license and might have problems with his insurance company.

You'd be surprised to learn that a lot of people much prefer to hand the officer $25 and go on about their business. No waiting for a ticket, no courthouse, no court, and no points on their drivers' license.

You would think people would want an honest, ethical police department, wouldn't you?

 

[Skeptic Bob]

The OP makes good points

I was about to say, "When I was active duty military I got discounts all the time." But there is no possible perceived quid-pro-quo there. I, as an Army officer, had no authority over a store owner. There were no obvious "special favors" he might be able to call in one day.

When I worked in embassies I was told, "avoid even the appearance of impropriety". It doesn't matter if everyone's intentions are pure. The word "corruption" seems a bit harsh, though. How about just "inappropriate"?

Here is a related question. Should officers be allowed to accept small gifts from the general public otherwise? For example, on more than one occasion I have paid the check for a table of cops when at a restaurant or paid for a cop's order when they are behind me in a drive-thru line. After Dallas, and inspired by a post by Maggie, I dropped some restaurant gift cards off at my local police station.

In all of those case I did it anonymously. I left before the cops had a chance to speak to me or even know who did it. I always leave the same message. "From a grateful citizen. Be careful out there."

Since it is anonymous there isn't even the appearance of a possible quid-pro-quo. Is there a problem with this type of giving?

 

[reinoe]

What a truly wonderful idea. I'll be looking forward to seeing the thread you start. Meanwhile, if you don't like the ones I start, feel free to ignore them.

I appreciate the sentiment you've offered by suggesting a more low key opinion on "corruption". Regarding the free meals and discounts: no I don't consider it a freebie. I went to the local 24hr fitness and they offered me a "discount" because I work in the healthcare field. I turned it down and never went back because I wasn't allowed to see what the rates are for "unemployed person" or "cop" or "FBI AGENT". I want to know what the base rate is before I consider myself getting a discount. It may very well have been a discount or it may have been a premium because I have relatively stable employment. I don't appreciate secret "discounts" unless I have a rate to compare it too in the first place. I suspected I was paying a premium because I shopped around ahead of time and I could get a rate as low as 29.99 a month and it wasn't offered.

Anyway that's a tangent. I don't consider a "free cup of coffee/soup/donut" corruption. It's like senior citizens getting a discount at Denny's.

 

[Patrickt]

When I was first hired as a police officer, 1966, I was handed a huge stack of tickets to the Annual Police Association Party. I was told I'm put my uniform on on my day off and sell the tickets downtown. I looked at the stack and said, "I won't sell that many." "Sure you will. Here's a list of places to go and how many tickets they're expected to buy."

Amazingly, all of the places on the list were businesses that involved the police. Bars, liquor stores, pawnshops. One bar, a rough working-class bar, was expected to buy 200 tickets at $1. The bar got a lovely certificate to be framed that said they supported the police. A few bars actually hung the certificate on their wall. I guess everyone got a good laugh.

I refused to be the bag man and collect for the association. "It's not a problem. They're just showing their support and appreciation for the officers." Right.

And, before I left, the drivers I stopped for traffic violations who asked if I'd noticed the "I support the FOP" sticker on their bumper were saddened to hear I wasn't in the union.