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Poland invokes Nato Article 4

Juin

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It is, one can say, a milder form of Article 5. It does not commit to war, just discussions among members. This is the case when a member state is unsettled by strange going ons. In this case it is Poland reacting to intruders, of Russian origin, wandering into its airspace. Up to 20 of them. The rattled Poles shot down 5 of them.

Should Article 5 be invoked?





Poland ‘closer to conflict than at any time since WW2’ as UK forces are asked to bolster Nato air defences – live

UK defence secretary says Russian drone incursion signals ‘new level of hostility against Europe’
www.theguardian.com
 
Send a similar drone response into russian airspace & let them decide the next move. If they respond with another drone "invasion" or worse, then it's clear what the response must be. Let them FAFO
 
Meanwhile, Trump says he needs yet another 2 weeks (his 7th 2-weeker) to think about increasing Russia/China/India sanctions.

I wonder how many Ukrainian civilians have been killed while Trump has been thinking. 14 weeks? Over a thousand I'd say.

A measure of these civilian deaths is accruing to Donald Trump for procrastinating.
 
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Slaughterhouse said:
Send a similar drone response into russian airspace & let them decide the next move. If they respond with another drone "invasion" or worse, then it's clear what the response must be. Let them FAFO
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Is it still a proxy war? From commentaries from various Nato leaders, the consensus is that they do not consider the unannounced Russian guests as a case of navigational error. If that is the case then its hard to keep up the case that this is still a proxy war.

What does Nato do then? A weak response is also dangerous as it puts into question whether Article 5 is a credible deterrent
 
Word now is that these were decoy drones and Poland didn’t shoot any of them down.
 
Russia is out of place.

Every nation supporting peaceful coexistence on this planet should have sent troops to Ukraine as soon as the Russian build-up began, to create a matching/overwhelming build up of force on the Ukrainian side of the border.

Then, essentially stare the Russians down with arms crossed and say: "Your move."
 
Except there wasn’t a united Ukraine before Russia’s invasion. It’s been in a state of brutal civil war since 2014 and Russia’s intervention starting in 2022 was invited by one side.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Meanwhile, Trump says he needs yet another 2 weeks (his 7th 2-weeker) to think about increasing Russia/China/India sanctions.
Click to expand...
Remind us what the previous administration did for 3 years?
Rogue Valley said:
I wonder how many Ukrainian civilians have been killed while Trump has been thinking. 14 weeks? Over a thousand I'd say.
Click to expand...
How many were killed from 2/2022 to 1/2025?
Rogue Valley said:
A measure of these civilian deaths is accruing to Donald Trump for procrastinating.
Click to expand...
You leftists just can't help yourselves, can you?
 

No.
 
Napoleon said:
Word now is that these were decoy drones and Poland didn’t shoot any of them down.
Click to expand...
Care to provide a source for that claim? The link you provided up thread doesn't talk to your point.
 
You can certainly criticized the constant extension of the "2 week plan" but what is your alternative? War? Troops? Boots on the ground? The most sensible answer is negotiate but the problem has proven to be very unproductive because Putin is a liar. All the past Presidents have found out you can't believe this guy. He says what benefits him at the moment but his long range plan is taking Ukraine back. So the only deterent must be one that causes Putin pain. So far nothing has done much. Resets, refusal to talk to Putin, conferences with Putin, haven't produced an end to the Ukraine war. Is the only answer troops or very serious econmic sanctions? The sanctions attempts haven't proven to be effective because 1. Putin is willing to let his country suffer, and 2. the nations of the world refuse to go along with true sanctions.
 
Peacenik said:
Russia is out of place.
Click to expand...


Russia is right on its own doorstep. England and France are at least a thousand miles from their own borders. When cops respond to a 911 they usually start by ordering those who are not residents to leave.





You mean peaceful coexistence like clamping world's most powerful military alliance around Russia's neck ?
 
Napoleon said:
Except there wasn’t a united Ukraine before Russia’s invasion. It’s been in a state of brutal civil war since 2014 and Russia’s intervention starting in 2022 was invited by one side.
Click to expand...
A brutal civil war which Russia abetted, instigated, financed and secretly fought in.
 
Lycanthrope said:
Donald will take two weeks to think it over, then plant his lips back on Putin's ass.
Click to expand...



The rest of Nato minus the US still dwarfs Russia. Trump cannot be used as an excuse for failure to act by England, France and Germany
 
Three analysts contacted by BBC Verify have identified images of a largely intact drone in a field close to the eastern Polish village of Czosnówka as a Gerbera - a cheap multi-purpose unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) widely used by Russia as a decoy to distract air defence systems during large-scale attacks on Ukraine.
Nice how Napolean left out this 2nd part, as if that makes this incursion into a neighbors airspace ok.
 
Callen said:
That link doesn't' say a word about them being decoy drones.
Click to expand...
It's further down the link see my comment above yours. However Napolean is leaning heavily on that statement as an excuse to suggest that this incursion into Poland's airspace was no big deal.
 
Juin said:
The rest of Nato minus the US still dwarfs Russia. Trump cannot be used as an excuse for failure to act by England, France and Germany
Click to expand...
Do you think action should be taken against Russia? You tend to celebrate Trump's fecklessness against Putin.
 
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