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Poland -- a Thorny Bush in the EU Garden.

Torus34

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The European Union is composed of nations which qualify for the description of democracies. One of those members is Poland. [Ed.: Another's Hungary.] Poland's Law and Justice Party, in power for several years under multiple presidents and prime ministers, has chipped away at the structures it inherited. The country is headed for one party rule. It is becoming increasingly difficult to view Poland as a democracy.

The EU has, so far, not taken official notice of this slow transmogrification. Those of us who follow such arcane things are waiting to see when this developing problem will make it to the general news media.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
 
Here it is in the media. Poland and Hungary both damaged the principle of the division of powers by dismissing all judges not on governmental line. Hungary even completely destroyed the free press - all left media is Orban friendly.
 
Here it is in the media. Poland and Hungary both damaged the principle of the division of powers by dismissing all judges not on governmental line. Hungary even completely destroyed the free press - all left media is Orban friendly.

Ya. Das ist nicht gut.

The recent machinations in the United States by one of our political parties to politicize our Supreme Court should be a wake-up call for all Americans. Unfortunately, it isn't.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
 
some EU countries tried to connect the corona help with pressure to hold on democratic values - that resulted in a big outcry in Poland and Hungary..
 
some EU countries tried to connect the corona help with pressure to hold on democratic values - that resulted in a big outcry in Poland and Hungary..

The US variation is that when an intelligently written law controlling guns is proposed, the right wing 'conservative' radio show hosts cry, "They're coming to take our guns!". If an attempt is made to keep our schools free from religious proselytizing, the cry becomes "They're taking our Bibles!" The same hosts also accuse the left of fear-mongering.

Oh well. So it goes.

Best to you and yours.
 
It is becoming increasingly difficult to view Poland as a democracy.
Well it isn't. According to all respectable sources, a democracy is a country where the voters elect the correct politicians. Since the Poles don't elect the correct politicians, their country is not a democracy.
 
Well it isn't. According to all respectable sources, a democracy is a country where the voters elect the correct politicians. Since the Poles don't elect the correct politicians, their country is not a democracy.
it´s about destroying the democratic institutions... following your cynical argumentations Russia and China are top democracies too...
 
it´s about destroying the democratic institutions... following your cynical argumentations Russia and China are top democracies too...
Russia is also not a democracy, since it's people also habitually vote for the wrong candidate.

Supreme power in China is not vested in elected leaders at all, but in an unelected bureaucracy, which is required to approve all elected officials. This makes them very close to a democracy, except they vest power in the wrong unelected bureaucracy.
 
Russia is also not a democracy, since it's people also habitually vote for the wrong candidate.

Supreme power in China is not vested in elected leaders at all, but in an unelected bureaucracy, which is required to approve all elected officials. This makes them very close to a democracy, except they vest power in the wrong unelected bureaucracy.
you, as most fiercy anti EU folks, have not even a clue how the EU works. And my time is too short to give it to you as I know that you don´t wanna know. And typical right wing, don´t react on the argument rather writing some "clever ironical stuff"
 
you, as most fiercy anti EU folks, have not even a clue how the EU works. And my time is too short to give it to you as I know that you don´t wanna know. And typical right wing, don´t react on the argument rather writing some "clever ironical stuff"
I find that irony is the best response when dealing with people who use words (e.g. "democracy") in an ideologically loaded way that is contrary to their dictionary definition.
 
Well it isn't. According to all respectable sources, a democracy is a country where the voters elect the correct politicians. Since the Poles don't elect the correct politicians, their country is not a democracy.

Hi!

A fascinating observation! Could you perhaps take time to list the criteria to be used in deciding whether a politician is 'correct'?

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
 
Hi!

A fascinating observation! Could you perhaps take time to list the criteria to be used in deciding whether a politician is 'correct'?

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
I don't fully understand the criteria myself, but it's pretty easy to tell which politicians are acceptable to the establishment and which ones aren't.
 
I don't fully understand the criteria myself, but it's pretty easy to tell which politicians are acceptable to the establishment and which ones aren't.

Hi!

I think things are getting a tad hazy. If the establishment is a totalitarian regime, the 'correct politicians, as viewed by that regime, may not quite be what those in a liberal democracy would view as 'correct'. I'm not trying to make life difficult for you, btw. I too run into all sorts of trouble when asked what I believe a 'democracy' to be. The democracy envisioned by the crafters of our [US} original Constitution had a different view than that of most Americans today. The US founding fathers believed in a public vote for some government positions, but federally only for the House of Representatives and that itself restricted to male property owners. All other federal offices were selected by means other than that of a direct headcount vote with one person, one vote as the rule.*

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

* Gerrymandering -- the drawing of political voting district lines to benefit one political party over the other, has distorted even that.
 
Hi!

I think things are getting a tad hazy. If the establishment is a totalitarian regime, the 'correct politicians, as viewed by that regime, may not quite be what those in a liberal democracy would view as 'correct'. I'm not trying to make life difficult for you, btw. I too run into all sorts of trouble when asked what I believe a 'democracy' to be. The democracy envisioned by the crafters of our [US} original Constitution had a different view than that of most Americans today. The US founding fathers believed in a public vote for some government positions, but federally only for the House of Representatives and that itself restricted to male property owners. All other federal offices were selected by means other than that of a direct headcount vote with one person, one vote as the rule.*

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

* Gerrymandering -- the drawing of political voting district lines to benefit one political party over the other, has distorted even that.
To be clear, my definition of a democracy is the dictionary definition, i.e. a country run by leaders elected by the people. But that obviously isn't the way you (or any mainstream media outlet) use the term.
 
To be clear, my definition of a democracy is the dictionary definition, i.e. a country run by leaders elected by the people. But that obviously isn't the way you (or any mainstream media outlet) use the term.

Hi!

As I noted, I have trouble myself with the term. The President of the United States of America -- the head of the Administration -- isn't elected by the direct vote of the people, but by the vote of the Electoral College, a body which, based upon its constitutionally and state defined make-up, is not an example of one man, one vote. I wasn't aware that I defined democracy in the same way as the main stream media -- from Fox News to MSNBC -- define it. Dictionary definitions have their uses but they too, in some instances, can prove insufficient.

Again, regards, stay safe 'n well.
 
I find that irony is the best response when dealing with people who use words (e.g. "democracy") in an ideologically loaded way that is contrary to their dictionary definition.
so give me your broad wisdom about the EU - wich unelected beaurocrat makes the decissions in Brüssel?
 
so give me your broad wisdom about the EU - wich unelected beaurocrat makes the decissions in Brüssel?
Bureaucracies being what they are, I'd assume any significant decision has to go through a bunch of bureaucrats. At least that's how it works here.
 
Bureaucracies being what they are, I'd assume any significant decision has to go through a bunch of bureaucrats. At least that's how it works here.
so you don´t know what you are talking about - qed
 
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