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Pledge of Allegiance

george48

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My question, to a secular republi is why?

I love the pledge...(I pledge allegiance to the flag and the republic for which it stands, one Nation under....

But notice how it sais "under god"

How about your countries promise to have a seperation of Church and State as Jefferson wrote to bapitsts conetticut
 

Luther

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My question, to a secular republi is why?

I love the pledge...(I pledge allegiance to the flag and the republic for which it stands, one Nation under....

But notice how it sais "under god"

How about your countries promise to have a seperation of Church and State as Jefferson wrote to bapitsts conetticut

So is there some Church that is making a law that bothers you?
 

Mycroft

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My question, to a secular republi is why?

I love the pledge...(I pledge allegiance to the flag and the republic for which it stands, one Nation under....

But notice how it sais "under god"

How about your countries promise to have a seperation of Church and State as Jefferson wrote to bapitsts conetticut
Is there a law that says someone has to say "under god" when reciting the Pledge?
 

Luther

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Is there a law that says someone has to say "under god" when reciting the Pledge?

Fun fact for ya

The Pledge of Allegiance doesn't work(Obviously)
 

Lursa

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My question, to a secular republi is why?

I love the pledge...(I pledge allegiance to the flag and the republic for which it stands, one Nation under....

But notice how it sais "under god"

How about your countries promise to have a seperation of Church and State as Jefferson wrote to bapitsts conetticut
Just google it. It will answer your question.
 

OrphanSlug

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My question, to a secular republi is why?

I love the pledge...(I pledge allegiance to the flag and the republic for which it stands, one Nation under....

But notice how it sais "under god"

How about your countries promise to have a seperation of Church and State as Jefferson wrote to bapitsts conetticut
We have been through this time and time again.

The pledge of allegiance has been changed and altered several times over, with "under God" not being the first time something along those lines was added to it.

But it was not until the early 1940s that Congress decided to get involved and "recognized officially" the line in question as "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Naturally, that was not good enough.

Groups like the Sons and Daughters of the American Revolution, the Knights of Columbus, and various others added "under God" in how they recite the pledge and of course Congress adopted a new measure. It was damn near bipartisan in support with the likes of Eisenhower in full champion of the idea.

Some would offer this was a stance against the ideologies of the USSR, China, and other communist or socialist powers at the time. Others will offer this was a Christian Conservative stance against prior acts considered anti-Capitalist including the New Deal.

Regardless we are stuck with it even though separation of Church and State is a key tenet (or was) of our Republic.

Another bit of irony, up until the time of Nazi Germany the "salute" while reciting the pledge of allegiance was the exact same. Right arm straight out with a flat hand palm down just like the Nazis did, so of course hand over the heart was our solution to that little problem.
 

george48

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We have been through this time and time again.

The pledge of allegiance has been changed and altered several times over, with "under God" not being the first time something along those lines was added to it.

But it was not until the early 1940s that Congress decided to get involved and "recognized officially" the line in question as "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Naturally, that was not good enough.

Groups like the Sons and Daughters of the American Revolution, the Knights of Columbus, and various others added "under God" in how they recite the pledge and of course Congress adopted a new measure. It was damn near bipartisan in support with the likes of Eisenhower in full champion of the idea.

Some would offer this was a stance against the ideologies of the USSR, China, and other communist or socialist powers at the time. Others will offer this was a Christian Conservative stance against prior acts considered anti-Capitalist including the New Deal.

Regardless we are stuck with it even though separation of Church and State is a key tenet (or was) of our Republic.

Another bit of irony, up until the time of Nazi Germany the "salute" while reciting the pledge of allegiance was the exact same. Right arm straight out with a flat hand palm down just like the Nazis did, so of course hand over the heart was our solution to that little problem.
Thank you. Very informative. I just love the ideal of a secular republic where everybody is free to have any religion they want (or none at all)...so it always struck me as weird to have "under god" in there...but Yeah....Thanks for the education!
 

mrjurrs

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My question, to a secular republi is why?

I love the pledge...(I pledge allegiance to the flag and the republic for which it stands, one Nation under....

But notice how it sais "under god"

How about your countries promise to have a seperation of Church and State as Jefferson wrote to bapitsts conetticut
My question, to a secular republi is why?

I love the pledge...(I pledge allegiance to the flag and the republic for which it stands, one Nation under....

But notice how it sais "under god"

How about your countries promise to have a seperation of Church and State as Jefferson wrote to bapitsts conetticut
Try it without under god. The metering reads much better.
 

CaughtInThe

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My favorite part of the pledge is when I hear my Republican relatives talk about how the "under God" part was there from it's beginning.

They have no idea that it was added in 1954.
 

Checkerboard Strangler

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My favorite part of the pledge is when I hear my Republican relatives talk about how the "under God" part was there from it's beginning.

They have no idea that it was added in 1954.
If Trump had won reelection, the phrase "under God" might have been changed to "under His eye".
Blessed be the fruits!

sxsw-handmaids-tale.jpg
 

Nickyjo

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We have been through this time and time again.

The pledge of allegiance has been changed and altered several times over, with "under God" not being the first time something along those lines was added to it.

But it was not until the early 1940s that Congress decided to get involved and "recognized officially" the line in question as "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Naturally, that was not good enough.

Groups like the Sons and Daughters of the American Revolution, the Knights of Columbus, and various others added "under God" in how they recite the pledge and of course Congress adopted a new measure. It was damn near bipartisan in support with the likes of Eisenhower in full champion of the idea.

Some would offer this was a stance against the ideologies of the USSR, China, and other communist or socialist powers at the time. Others will offer this was a Christian Conservative stance against prior acts considered anti-Capitalist including the New Deal.

Regardless we are stuck with it even though separation of Church and State is a key tenet (or was) of our Republic.

Another bit of irony, up until the time of Nazi Germany the "salute" while reciting the pledge of allegiance was the exact same. Right arm straight out with a flat hand palm down just like the Nazis did, so of course hand over the heart was our solution to that little problem.
Searched, and my memory and assumption about why seem correct: "under God" was added in 1954, in part in opposition to communism.
 

PeacefulWarrior

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Pledging allegiance to flags = C R E E P Y imho.
I pledge allegiance only to ideals and principles.
And the USA has left those behind some decades ago. Again: imho.

The "under god" makes it even more creepy.
Its religious indoctrination. And nationalistic indoctrination.

I dont care for it. The USA has ventured from its principles, and to me anyway the turmoil we see now domestically is characteristic of a nation that is facing its day of reckoning.
(y)
 

ASHES

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Pledging allegiance to flags = C R E E P Y imho.
I pledge allegiance only to ideals and principles.
And the USA has left those behind some decades ago. Again: imho.

The "under god" makes it even more creepy.
Its religious indoctrination. And nationalistic indoctrination.

I dont care for it. The USA has ventured from its principles, and to me anyway the turmoil we see now domestically is characteristic of a nation that is facing its day of reckoning.
(y)
"And to the Republic for which it stands"

It isn't the flag itself being pledged to, it's what it represents.
 

PeacefulWarrior

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"And to the Republic for which it stands"

It isn't the flag itself being pledged to, it's what it represents.

I get your point.
But "what it represents" right now, from what I see, is unbridled greed & dollar chasing, murdering human beings for resources and profit, pumping weapons and death not only into the American society, but the #1 exporter of weapons, war, and death to the world.

I'm not real overjoyed or supportive of the current direction of "the republic".
Dont get me wrong, I realize the USA has done a lot of good in the world. Coasting on past achievements though is what I'm seeing.
Dont pledge allegiance. I reserve the right to withdraw my allegiance when its no longer something that I can believe in.
 

ASHES

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I get your point.
But "what it represents" right now, from what I see, is unbridled greed & dollar chasing, murdering human beings for resources and profit, pumping weapons and death not only into the American society, but the #1 exporter of weapons, war, and death to the world.

I'm not real overjoyed or supportive of the current direction of "the republic".
Dont get me wrong, I realize the USA has done a lot of good in the world. Coasting on past achievements though is what I'm seeing.
Dont pledge allegiance. I reserve the right to withdraw my allegiance when its no longer something that I can believe in.
I think it represents what we want it to represent. It's our history, the good and bad, our past and current ideals. Make the flag something that represents your vision of America and pledge allegiance to making the flag represent that, not the worst of what it also represents.
 

PeacefulWarrior

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I think it represents what we want it to represent. It's our history, the good and bad, our past and current ideals. Make the flag something that represents your vision of America and pledge allegiance to making the flag represent that, not the worst of what it also represents.
I still stand for the flag when appropriate, because I believe at least in the ability to make changes and be better, and hope that for the future.
I think things have been more grim than this at some points in time (Civil War for instance), and yet the Union has endured and improved.
Its this that I believe in, not so much the current state of affairs but a hope for a better future. Like I said: I'm not an America hater.
Nice chatting.
 

george48

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I get your point.
But "what it represents" right now, from what I see, is unbridled greed & dollar chasing, murdering human beings for resources and profit, pumping weapons and death not only into the American society, but the #1 exporter of weapons, war, and death to the world.

I'm not real overjoyed or supportive of the current direction of "the republic".
Dont get me wrong, I realize the USA has done a lot of good in the world. Coasting on past achievements though is what I'm seeing.
Dont pledge allegiance. I reserve the right to withdraw my allegiance when its no longer something that I can believe in.
The US is the only one that says secular over all....The only County ..
 

cpwill

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"And to the Republic for which it stands"

It isn't the flag itself being pledged to, it's what it represents.
Then we should pledge loyalty to the Constitution, as the Military does.

I do not like the Pledge and do not generally say it. I love the flag - I have a legitimate emotional response to it. But I'm not pledging loyalty to it.
 

ASHES

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Then we should pledge loyalty to the Constitution, as the Military does.

I do not like the Pledge and do not generally say it. I love the flag - I have a legitimate emotional response to it. But I'm not pledging loyalty to it.
I would be OK with standing and facing a framed Constitution on the wall and pledging to that instead. They represent the same thing to me.


"I pledge allegiance, to the constitution, of the United States of America, and to the Republic, which it founded, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 

Grand Mal

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I would be OK with standing and facing a framed Constitution on the wall and pledging to that instead. They represent the same thing to me.


"I pledge allegiance, to the constitution, of the United States of America, and to the Republic, which it founded, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Why would anyone pledge allegiance to anything? Not even a person but a rag or a piece of paper or an idea. How could you be loyal to an idea? Especially someone else's idea. The whole concept smells like surrender to me. Handing your personal sovereignty to a collective and declaring your intention to never challenge the collective.
Sorry, but the idea is very strange to me.
 

Northern Light

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The pledge is creepy, nationalist indoctrination and I would be happy to see it eliminated altogether. I know that bothers some patriots to hear, but lots of other nations are perfectly patriotic without this weird sieg heil thing happening every day in school. My children were born in Canada where they had to stand for the national anthem every morning, something I disagreed with it, but fortunately it got phased out in this area by the time my son was 8 years old.

They will never know the insanity of having their parents called in for a parent-teacher intervention because they refused to stand for the pledge with their arm sticking out when they were 14 years old like I did, and being threatened by the principle with expulsion for not complying with classroom rules. They were willing to turf an A student because I wouldn't parrot their patriotic BS on command.

I know it's not that extreme anymore. At least, I hope it's not. I won that battle by the way. I was given permission to leave the room during the pledge, which I did every day.

It's not that I don't love America, but I am not a slave to someone else's ideology. We are supposed to be a free nation. We don't treat adults that way so children shouldn't be treated that way either, especially if they don't have those traditions in their home family life.

The pledge is government indoctrination, plain and simple. Funny enough, the private school I went to later didn't do all that crap. Turns out it's reserved for the public working class schools where they want to turn out as many lemmings as possible.
 

Blue Donkey

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Thank you. Very informative. I just love the ideal of a secular republic where everybody is free to have any religion they want (or none at all)...so it always struck me as weird to have "under god" in there...but Yeah....Thanks for the education!
The First Amendment is all you need to know. Some people can't read it.
 

Northern Light

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I don't get why people are so hung up on the God thing yet they are perfectly okay with children being forced to do the pledge.

I don't care if the pledge says God or not, I don't want my children indoctrinated with this crap.
 
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