This topic is getting dilluted and expanding into different areas with different people, so I'll try to be concise...
try
Gandhi>Bush said:
That's exactly why I don't think that is an issue to the common man. The Saudi's ask us to be there. That's not a beef with the US foriegn policy.
We know what their problems, we've been over it, and yes part of hypocri-er bin Ladens beef is by his own words 'infidels on holy land'. Regardless, it doesn't change what is; we're in a war with extremists. A war that was declared 7 years before we struck back.
Gandhi>Bush said:
Can you really not see how hatred and intolerance has truly decreased? It's certianly happened here in America. It's not gone, but I assure you it will be some day.
I can see that we as a country have evolved to where we don't have the ugliness that exists in some parts of the world. Not because we're higher-brow or any such lofty notions, but because our law enforcement has made it very unpleasant to keep up the practise of killing people based on their color or whatever and allowing people to turn a blind eye. Such behaviour is basically left up to the criminally insane, -whether they judged that way or not- and our filled to capacity prisons can attest to hates healthy existence in our country.
Gandhi>Bush said:
They don't like us for our support for Israel.
We know that...
Gandhi>Bush said:
You should never give anyone everything they want when you're negotiating a deal.
Given the admission that Israel is intending to seize the West Bank, they're not.
Gandhi>Bush said:
You should always have conditions and your own set of demands so that a comprimise be reached.
This has been attempted, from the Madrid Conference to the Oslo accord...
The lunatics proved that what their leader says (Arafat at the time) and what
they do are 2 different stories altogether.
Gandhi>Bush said:
What is Israel and the US getting? It's appeasement and that's not at all what I'm talking about. I can think of a condition: the jewish settlers that are there, they should be offered citizenship instead of being displaced.
This fight, which is as old as time, goes far beyond
living there. By their own beliefs, and as bin Laden mentioned in his letter, both sides believe it is theirs to own. Their rightful land as promised by God. They can easily live shoulder to shoulder physically, it's the mentality that's clouding the issue.
My whole point of
make them stop didn't mean make them stop hating - they can hate all they want - the point was
make them stop committing crimes. Do you truly think racism has been abolished? That people who hated blacks and jews all of their lives just stopped? Of course not,
Law made them stop. Maybe their future descendents will know better, but the hate will have to grow out of their seed. While this might seem to correspond with your' hate will be eradicated' theory, you have to remember number one, it took a civil war to abolish slavery and two, it took years of hard work by law enforcement and convictions to put an end to violence against blacks. Not that it has stopped, it's just not as prevailent. Violent people don't care for words, that's why they've resorted to violence; it's their
expression and the language they speak best.
bin Laden and his kind celebrate death, (his words) and Americans celebrate life. What do you think his language is? Despite the psuedo -peaceful rhetoric in his letter?
Gandhi>Bush said:
I don't think self-loathing is always the case.
Sure, there're plenty of petty reasons to hate, but find me a man who is content within himself, that feels he has to commit acts of violence on others. That's either a man wronged or a sociopath.
Gandhi>Bush said:
I don't see eye to eye with my parents. I don't "hate" my parents. There is a distinct line between hatred and discontent.
As far as I know, you haven't killed them. Of course there exists a difference, but we're talking about Islamic extremists, who kill.
Don't know if that was concise enough but...