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Playing the Islamophobia Card

Today, sure. But go back 500 years and you'd find many similar horrors being visited upon the world by Christianity. After all, you haven't seen the Muslims pulling nonsense like the Crusades (let's rape and murder our way across the Middle East) and the Inquisitions, have we?

There's no one innocent here, Christianity is just older and went through it's violent, murderous period long ago, but when they did it, they had massive political power backing them up.

You don't even have to go that far back in history. Christian nations caused WWII and murdered millions of jews. Just 4 years ago a Christian nation bombed, invaded and occupied a nation, causing the deaths of scores of thousands, based on made up reasons when the attacked nation had not attacked anyone.

Just depends on how you want to look at it. Fair guess a lot of Muslims look at it that way.
 
You don't even have to go that far back in history. Christian nations caused WWII and murdered millions of jews. Just 4 years ago a Christian nation bombed, invaded and occupied a nation, causing the deaths of scores of thousands, based on made up reasons when the attacked nation had not attacked anyone.

Just depends on how you want to look at it. Fair guess a lot of Muslims look at it that way.

Yes, and you can also point out the whole Catholic/Irish thing as well. I was trying to point out huge, world-changing events though and Christianity went through this phase earlier because it's older. Heck, if Scientology is still around in 500 years or so, we might see the L. Ron Hubbard Crusades, you never know.

The idea that Christianity is somehow an innocent religion because they're not being as much of a pain in the *** as Islam right this second is ridiculous.
 
You don't even have to go that far back in history. Christian nations caused WWII and murdered millions of jews. Just 4 years ago a Christian nation bombed, invaded and occupied a nation, causing the deaths of scores of thousands, based on made up reasons when the attacked nation had not attacked anyone.

Just depends on how you want to look at it. Fair guess a lot of Muslims look at it that way.

No they don't. Ahmadinejad is constantly railing against the after effects it's caused for the Palestinians, and he knows it had nothing to do with religion, which is why he doesn't mention it. It was not sanctioned by any part of the Christian religion, and it was not spread as a Christian movement.

With that said, I'm not going to entertain any kind avoidance of the fact at hand, by falling for the debating of long dead occurences, be they the Crusades or Hitler...

2007. No part of Christianity sanctions, or condones this kind of violence. The independant acts of miserable people are a product of their own weaknesses and failings in life.

Sorry, still a lame duck comparison.
 
Yes, and you can also point out the whole Catholic/Irish thing as well. I was trying to point out huge, world-changing events though and Christianity went through this phase earlier because it's older. Heck, if Scientology is still around in 500 years or so, we might see the L. Ron Hubbard Crusades, you never know.

The idea that Christianity is somehow an innocent religion because they're not being as much of a pain in the *** as Islam right this second is ridiculous.

Scientology will do no such thing. Some people just learn from history; Islam has been around for thousands of years -well long enough to have evolved out of the dark ages. Whether or not the religion itself is a problem is open to question, but it's use as a tool today is doing more damage than any other religion period. To Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindu's, and fellow Muslims.

And if you were trying to point out world changing events, why in the world would you bring up abortion clinic bombings? How on earth have they changed the world? It's an exculsively Western cultural problem not extending much past Canada from the U.S.
 
Sorry, still a lame duck comparison.

Indeed. Discussion of historical comparisons may be intellectually appealing and fun to use in a debate or discussion, but they fade in relevance when one considers, oh, things like KSM's confession. See this thread for a verbatim account of a portion of the transcript.
 
No they don't. Ahmadinejad is constantly railing against the after effects it's caused for the Palestinians, and he knows it had nothing to do with religion, which is why he doesn't mention it. It was not sanctioned by any part of the Christian religion, and it was not spread as a Christian movement.

With that said, I'm not going to entertain any kind avoidance of the fact at hand, by falling for the debating of long dead occurences, be they the Crusades or Hitler...

2007. No part of Christianity sanctions, or condones this kind of violence. The independant acts of miserable people are a product of their own weaknesses and failings in life.

Sorry, still a lame duck comparison.

I have missed the chorus of Christian organizations in this country protesting the Govt's action in Iraq.
 
I have missed the chorus of Christian organizations in this country protesting the Govt's action in Iraq.

You're right, that makes it a great comparison to people who regularly murder in the name of their religion.:roll:
 
I found this to be a pleasent surprise from one of the more current public speakers commenting on Islam in front of some media folk. It's not quite the rancor and vitriol we get from a bunch of posters around here.
Thank you all very much for your hospitality. We've just had a -- wide-ranging discussions on the matter at hand. Like the good folks standing with me, the American people were appalled and outraged at last Tuesday's attacks. And so were Muslims all across the world. Both Americans and Muslim friends and citizens, tax-paying citizens, and Muslims in nations were just appalled and could not believe what we saw on our TV screens.

These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith. And it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.

The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule.

The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war.

When we think of Islam we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace. And that's made brothers and sisters out of every race -- out of every race.

America counts millions of Muslims amongst our citizens, and Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country. Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, moms and dads. And they need to be treated with respect. In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect.

Women who cover their heads in this country must feel comfortable going outside their homes. Moms who wear cover must be not intimidated in America. That's not the America I know. That's not the America I value.

I've been told that some fear to leave; some don't want to go shopping for their families; some don't want to go about their ordinary daily routines because, by wearing cover, they're afraid they'll be intimidated. That should not and that will not stand in America.

Those who feel like they can intimidate our fellow citizens to take out their anger don't represent the best of America, they represent the worst of humankind, and they should be ashamed of that kind of behavior.

This is a great country. It's a great country because we share the same values of respect and dignity and human worth. And it is my honor to be meeting with leaders who feel just the same way I do. They're outraged, they're sad. They love America just as much as I do.

I want to thank you all for giving me a chance to come by. And may God bless us all.
It's too diplomatic and sensitive to Islamic law to be from an evangelist. And it certainly doesn't sound like it came from one of those Bush apologists. I wonder who the author is?


Author here.
 
This is mouth honor. We can go back and forth posting links, from someone who doesn't really know about Islam (like Bush), to Muslims themselves who do know and dissent strongly against it (Ibn Warraq, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, etc) all the way to Imams who directly contradict what Bush is saying and prove the above mentioned detracors correct.

American Muslims, for the most part are a different breed than the people who live in Muslim dominated countries. Of course, like any demographic there are plenty of diverse opinions and beliefs within Islam, despite their geographical station, but the strongest message being put forward in regard to Islam is the violent one.

Most notably missing is the huge protest that should be occurring among Muslims who don't believe in this type of ideology. You'll find more protests against non-Muslims, who legitimately react out of fear, accused of being 'Islamaphobes', than you do against the people really giving the image of Islam a major beating, by using it to legitimize horrendous acts.

Empirical reasoning can only put forward one conclusion: what you see is what you get.

I'll take the words of Warraq and Hirsi Ali over Bush's when it comes to what to expect from Islam. Not to mention the daily acts of violence.
 
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