• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Pictures of the hallowed ground around the WTC site

I've stated numerous times that I condemn the building of the Mosque but support their right to build it the two things are not mutually exclusive.

Not all members of the Orthodox Christian Church support killing Albanian Muslims but does that mean we should support building an Orthodox Cathedral in the town of Srebrenica? Not all Germans are Nazi's but does that mean we should support building a German Cultural center at Aushwitz?

I don't see why we can't build those things in those particular place. It's all a matter of perspective. You can see the Mosque being built there as a reminder that Muslims destroyed two of our building and killed many of our people or you can see it as a reminder that not all Muslims are our enemies and that there are some that would not condone such actions. It all comes down to perspective and how you are willing to interpret the action of building a Mosque in that location.
 
I don't see why we can't build those things in those particular place. It's all a matter of perspective. You can see the Mosque being built there as a reminder that Muslims destroyed two of our building and killed many of our people or you can see it as a reminder that not all Muslims are our enemies and that there are some that would not condone such actions. It all comes down to perspective and how you are willing to interpret the action of building a Mosque in that location.

Anti-Muslim sentiment is high in the U.S. right now. I think most people don't care, but if you put them aside, what's left are people who don't know how to make the kind of separation you're talking about, as well as people who are arguing with those ignoramouses.
 
I don't see why we can't build those things in those particular place.

You seriously wouldn't find anything offensive about building a German Cultural Center at Aushwitz or a Orthodox Cathedral at Srebrenica?

It's all a matter of perspective. You can see the Mosque being built there as a reminder that Muslims destroyed two of our building and killed many of our people or you can see it as a reminder that not all Muslims are our enemies and that there are some that would not condone such actions. It all comes down to perspective and how you are willing to interpret the action of building a Mosque in that location.

If this was an attempt at reconciliation rather than provocation then why not build a multicultural community center instead of an islamic community center? Why not build a memorial to the victims of 9-11 instead?
 
Mosque-Near-Ground-Zero1.jpg


All of these claims about the mosque being built at ground zero are just a bunch of racist, hyperbolic non-sense.

The mosque also received a 9-0 vote from the Landmark commission in NYC to go ahead with building it.
 
It's not at ground zero... and last time I checked, 9-11 didn't change property rights in your country.

A Canadian lecturing about property rights. lol

Stop crying about it already.

Sorry this isn't Canada you can't haul me infront of the human rights commission for anti-Islamic speech.
 
All of these claims about the mosque being built at ground zero are just a bunch of racist, hyperbolic non-sense.

What race would that be? It's two blocks away from the former WTC, ground zero includes the surrounding area as well, this building was actually hit by debris from the attacks.

The mosque also received a 9-0 vote from the Landmark commission in NYC to go ahead with building it.

Nobody here is disagreeing with their right to build it we are asserting that they shouldn't build it.
 
The ignorance, is that donut shops, stippers and sidewalk t-shirt venders didn't murder 3,000 American civilians, just to promote their religion. Where are all the enlightened folks, supporting the Westboro Church in their right to protest soldiers's funerals? That thread is amazingly quiet. Are you going to post your support of their constitutional rights on that thread? Since, you're not as ignorant as the rest of us and all.

Ignorance is that 1.5billion people are responsible for the actions of 19.
 
A Canadian lecturing about property rights. lol

Sorry this isn't Canada you can't haul me infront of the human rights commission for anti-Islamic speech.

This is the best you can do? Attack my nationality?

Low form. I see you can't rebut the actual points.
 
What race would that be? It's two blocks away from the former WTC, ground zero includes the surrounding area as well, this building was actually hit by debris from the attacks.

Yes, and? Are we supposed to start banning certain types of buildings and continue to have an unhealthy attachment to the site of the attack? The best we can do is build over it, put a memorial there, and move on with our lives. The fact that people are kicking up a stink about this just goes to show that people can't separate religion from their politics.

Nobody here is disagreeing with their right to build it we are asserting that they shouldn't build it.

I support their right to build it as a place of peaceful worship. This whole guilt by association thing is getting really old.
 
The ignorance, is that donut shops, stippers and sidewalk t-shirt venders didn't murder 3,000 American civilians, just to promote their religion. Where are all the enlightened folks, supporting the Westboro Church in their right to protest soldiers's funerals? That thread is amazingly quiet. Are you going to post your support of their constitutional rights on that thread? Since, you're not as ignorant as the rest of us and all.

I strongly support the right of Westboro to picket at soldier's funerals. I always have. And I strongly support the mosque as well. And I'm a liberal. We can draw Muhammad and they can build a mosque anywhere they want to. And if you don't like it, you can yell about it until you tire yourself out and fall asleep on your bed of ignorance.
 
You seriously wouldn't find anything offensive about building a German Cultural Center at Aushwitz or a Orthodox Cathedral at Srebrenica?

Like I said it's a matter of perspective. The Auschwitz one wouldn't really matter that much because not all German's burned Jews, it was Nazi's under the rule of Hitler. If Poland was okay with having a German Cultural Center I don't see why they can't have it by Auschwitz. The Srebrenica one I will give you just because I don't know enough about that particular incident.
 
You seriously wouldn't find anything offensive about building a German Cultural Center at Aushwitz or a Orthodox Cathedral at Srebrenica?

If this was an attempt at reconciliation rather than provocation then why not build a multicultural community center instead of an islamic community center? Why not build a memorial to the victims of 9-11 instead?

Why would those things be offensive? Auschwitz practically is a German cultural center right now. And why would an Orthodox Cathedral at Srebrenica be offensive? The Serbs aren't synonymous with any religion, I don't get it. All these events represent various degrees of unspeakable horror and should remind us that there are more important things to worry about than whether or not a mosque is being built to piss people off. The world is still plagued by murder and dictators and diseases and poverty and even genocide. I feel for people who are personally offended by the mosque, but I have no tolerance for the suggestion that it actually matters in the grand scheme of things.
 
Yes, and? Are we supposed to start banning certain types of buildings and continue to have an unhealthy attachment to the site of the attack? The best we can do is build over it, put a memorial there, and move on with our lives. The fact that people are kicking up a stink about this just goes to show that people can't separate religion from their politics.

I'll say it once again for those slow on the uptake, it's not whether or not they should be allowed to build the mosque it's about whether they should build the mosque.


I support their right to build it as a place of peaceful worship. This whole guilt by association thing is getting really old.

Then would you support building a German Cultural Center at Aushwitz or a Orthodox Cathedral at Srebrenica, perhaps a Shinto Shrine at Pearl Harbor, an Army Memorial at Wounded Knee?
 
Why would those things be offensive? Auschwitz practically is a German cultural center right now.

Aushwitz is practically a German cultural center? FTW?

And why would an Orthodox Cathedral at Srebrenica be offensive? The Serbs aren't synonymous with any religion, I don't get it.

lol, it was an ethnic massacre perpetrated by Orthodox Christians against Muslims, and you honestly wouldn't see anything wrong with building a Orthodox Cathedral at the site of that massacre?

Wow.
 
lol, it was an ethnic massacre perpetrated by Orthodox Christians against Muslims, and you honestly wouldn't see anything wrong with building a Orthodox Cathedral at the site of that massacre?

Wow.

The army was made up of orthodox Serbians, but it's not like they represent the entire religion. Cathedrals and mosques don't hurt anybody, it's not that I don't "see anything wrong" with it, I just think -- as I already said -- that the more time you spend focused on things that don't matter, the more time you spend ignoring things that do matter.

People who really do just want to piss off their opposition -- Fred Phelps being the best example -- are best handled with indifference. The only way to beat them is by ignoring them. If you try to set fire to an ideology, you're the only one who's going to get burned.
 
I'll say it once again for those slow on the uptake, it's not whether or not they should be allowed to build the mosque it's about whether they should build the mosque.

I think they SHOULD build it. See how that works?

You act like there is some kind of moral supremacy in this argument. There isn't. They have the right to build it, they have permission to build it, and they aren't associated with the terrorists who did it. Time to move on.

Then would you support building a German Cultural Center at Aushwitz or a Orthodox Cathedral at Srebrenica, perhaps a Shinto Shrine at Pearl Harbor, an Army Memorial at Wounded Knee?

What would be the point of a German cultural centre at Aushwitz? The whole site is a museum.

I don't know enough about Srebrenica to comment.

Shintoists didn't bomb Pearl Harbour, the Japanese did.

Wounded Knee... I think the government has already done a lot to apologize for what happened back then. It was basically a cultural genocide.

Your attempt to equivocate to other irrelevant incidents is noted.

Got anything else?
 
As if my views on property rights are shaped by the fact that my government has little respect for them. :roll:
 
The people building the mosque haven't condemned the terroists who did fly those aircraft into the WTC and The Pentagon. Have they?

In fact, imam whateverthehellhisnameis said that it was our fault. Do you support that claim?

And you conveniently ignore that the guy who started the whole Cordoba Initiative was killed in the attacks.

You'd do us all a great favor if you stopped pretending you didn't think that you believe Muslim = Terrorist.
 
And you conveniently ignore that the guy who started the whole Cordoba Initiative was killed in the attacks.

You'd do us all a great favor if you stopped pretending you didn't think that you believe Muslim = Terrorist.

I don't think he ever pretended that was the case...
 
I don't think he ever pretended that was the case...

Hmmm.

Adpst wrong as usual?

There is one thing the opponents of the Cordoba Initiative (that plans to build an Islamic cultural center near Ground Zero) have in common with the Cordoba Initiative's leadership: their clear condemnation and denunciation of terrorism. They are united in this belief because every time a terrorist tries to claim the mantle of Islam and commits an act of violence, everyone loses.

(For Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's statement about the mission of the Cordoba Initiative and condemnation of terrorism, you can go to the front page of their website.)

The Faith Divide: Who wins when the U.S. restricts religious freedom? - On Faith at washingtonpost.com

Faisal: It's painful. When this thing first happened, everybody in the community said, "Oh, God, let this not be a person from our faith, tradition, from our background."

Faisal: Fanaticism and terrorism have no place in Islam. That's just as absurd as associating Hitler with Christianity, or David Koresh with Christianity. There are always people who will do peculiar things, and think that they are doing things in the name of their religion. But the Koran is... God says in the Koran that they think that they are doing right, but they are doing wrong.

Prominent American Muslims denounce terror committed in the name of Islam

Not news.

Google. Pain in the rears of partisan hacks.

And no, he didn't claim it was our fault. Did he say that the US has done harm to the Muslim world? Yes. But that is hardly what apdst is claiming. And you'd have to be extremely blind not to realize just how much we've fracked up in the Middle East. Supporting secular dictators who murdered thousands of their people is not a good way of getting in good with the locals.

it's a sad thing that certain people here are assumed wrong whenever they post.
 
Last edited:
Unfortunately public opinion is so entrenched now, and not for the right reasons. Nothings gonna change the vast majority of peoples minds.
 
Look, the whole point of this thread was not to rehash the issue again, as has been done in so many other threads.

I just wanted to attack the one argument against it: "You can't build there! It's hallowed ground!"

Obviously, there is nothing sacred or hallowed about the area two blocks away from Ground Zero.
 
I came into this post thinking there would be an intelligent point.

Nope.

Look, I think the notion of "hallowed" ground is idiotic when people use it literally. However I don't think many are using in a literalistic "holy" sense as in religious but more in regards to a more patriotic nature, such as a monument type of thing.

Dunken Donuts were not directly and heavily involved in influecing the plan, method, and reason for the attack.

Strip Clubs were not directly and heavily involved in influecing the plan, method, and reason for the attack.

BBQ joints were not directly and heavily involved in influecing the plan, method, and reason for the attack.

People selling T-Shirts with the logos of the heroes that went in saving people after the attacks were not directly and heavily involved in influecing the plan, method, and reason for the attack.

Gambling halls were not directly and heavily involved in influecing the plan, method, and reason for the attack.

Know what WAS directly and heavily involved in influencing the plan, method, and reason for the attack? Islam.

Know what's probably not tactful to have as a giant glaring reminder of the evils of that day rather than the heroism and mourning of it? A mosque dedicated to said religion whose purpose in its location is highly dubious and questionable.
 
I think they SHOULD build it. See how that works?

You act like there is some kind of moral supremacy in this argument. There isn't. They have the right to build it, they have permission to build it, and they aren't associated with the terrorists who did it. Time to move on.

Except they are associated with the terrorists who did it in that the terrorists who did it, did it in the name of Islam. Are they directly associated to the 9-11 attacks? No. But again it's like building an Orthodox Cathedral at the site of the Srebrenica massacre, or a German Cultural center at Aushwitz.



What would be the point of a German cultural centre at Aushwitz? The whole site is a museum.

German's died at Aushwitz. What's the point of a Mosque at Ground Zero other as an act of provocation?

I don't know enough about Srebrenica to comment.

It's the site of the Serbian Massacre of Albanian Muslims.

Shintoists didn't bomb Pearl Harbour, the Japanese did.

And their religion was state Shinto emperor worship.

Wounded Knee... I think the government has already done a lot to apologize for what happened back then. It was basically a cultural genocide.

So then no problem with a Army Memorial there then?
 
Back
Top Bottom