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Pew poll: Global views on NATO and U.S. rise; for " russia ", a decline

coyote505

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Remember when US liberals were incensed at Ronald Reagan for calling the USSR an "Evil Empire"?
 

TomFitz

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Whatever.
Both sides are the bad guys in this war.
Russia is just the bigger, bad guy.

BS, Russia is the villain. They started the war under transparently false pretenses.

Their war is a war of conquest. A violation of the UN charter.

Their objective was to overrun and take Ukraine over.

Now, having failed in that objective,they’re trying to consolidate their hold on Dombass.
 

MTAtech

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Whatever.
Both sides are the bad guys in this war.
Russia is just the bigger, bad guy.
You don’t define what the sides are, so I assume that you mean Russia and Ukraine.

I don’t see how Ukraine is a bad guy for wanting to maintain their sovereignty. Russia is 100% wrong in this war.

Expressing that they are both bad is a false equivalence. It would be like faulting Poland for Hitler’s invasion.
 

The Work Outing

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BS, Russia is the villain. They started the war under transparently false pretenses.
Wrong.

Ukraine killed thousands of Donbas residents before Russia ever invaded.
Their war is a war of conquest.
Wrong.
Russia seems to be taking the area around the Donbas/the south and nothing else.
The attacks towards Kiev were obviously diversionary.
A violation of the UN charter.
Ukraine violated the Charter first in the Donbas.
And funny how you don't seem to mind America violating the Charter by invading first Iraq and then Afghanistan.
How many tens of thousands of innocent people died in those invasions?

Nor do you seem to mind Saudi Arabia (with US and GB backing) bombing innocent civilians and helping lead to the starvation of tens of thousands of innocent Yemeni children.

You seem awfully selective in your condemnation of countries over invasions/bombings.

Their objective was to overrun and take Ukraine over.

Now, having failed in that objective,they’re trying to consolidate their hold on Dombass.
Wrong.
There is NO proof of that.
They pulled away from Kiev as soon as they had got what they wanted in the rest of the country.
You obviously cannot spot a diversionary attack when you see it.

I am TOTALLY against Russia invading Ukraine proper.
But calling Ukraine the 'good guys' is utterly ridiculous.
 
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The Work Outing

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You don’t define what the sides are, so I assume that you mean Russia and Ukraine.

I don’t see how Ukraine is a bad guy for wanting to maintain their sovereignty. Russia is 100% wrong in this war.

Expressing that they are both bad is a false equivalence. It would be like faulting Poland for Hitler’s invasion.
Wrong.
This despite the Donbas voting OVERWHELMINGLY in two referendums to leave Ukraine.

There are NO good guys in this war that has been going on since 2014.

You disagree?
You believe whatever the MSM tells you?
Whatever.


I am TOTALLY against Russia invading Ukraine proper.
But calling Ukraine the 'good guys' is utterly ridiculous.
 
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MTAtech

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Wrong.

There are NO good guys in this war that has been going on since 2014.

You disagree?
You believe whatever the MSM tells you?
Whatever.

I am TOTALLY against Russia invading Ukraine proper.
But calling Ukraine the 'good guys' is utterly ridiculous.
From your link:
Declaring the Donetskand Luhansk People's Republics (DPR and LPR, respectively), armed Russian-backed separatist groups seized government buildings throughout the Donbas, leading to armed conflict with Ukrainian government forces.[46]

Ukraine launched a military counter-offensive against pro-Russian forces in April 2014, called the "Anti-Terrorist Operation"
[47]

So, a portion of Ukraine decided they were a separate country and started an armed conflict. Sounds like what happened at the start of the American Civil War. Yet, you blame Ukraine for responding.
 

TomFitz

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Wrong.

Ukraine killed thousands of Donbas residents before Russia ever invaded.

Wrong.
Russia seems to be taking the area around the Donbas and nothing else.
The attacks towards Kiev were obviously diversionary.

Ukraine violated the Charter first in the Donbas.
And funny how you don't seem to mind America violating the Charter by invading first Iraq and then Afghanistan.
How many tens of thousands of innocent people died in those invasions?

Nor do you seem to mind Saudi Arabia (with US and GB backing) bombing innocent civilians and helping lead to the starvation of tens of thousands of innocent Yemeni children.

You seem awfully selective in your condemnation of countries over invasions/bombings.


Wrong.
There is NO proof of that.
They pulled away from Kiev as soon as they had got what they wanted in the rest of the country.
You obviously cannot spot a diversionary attack when you see it.

I am TOTALLY against Russia invading Ukraine proper.
But calling Ukraine the 'good guys' is utterly ridiculous.

Your reply is equally ridiculous and deliberately ignores Putin’s stated goals.

Back when trump was still in Putin’s pocket, Putin said that Ukraine was “part of Russia”, and trump agreed.

If you’re going to falsely represent the Russian backed gurella war against Ukraine in Dombass as killing “thousands of Dombass residents”, then you really are making a dishonest argument.

Of course, now it’s the Russian invaders who are killing thousands of Dombass residents.

Obviously, there has been no civilian uprising to support the Russian invaders in Dombass.

The “civilians” in question were the Russian and Russians backed “separatists”, and frequently Russian troops themselves. The Russians have been trying to grab Dombass since 2014.

Dombass is not part of Russia, and neither is Ukraine.

Yes, I mined the US invastion of Iraq….. a lot. And violating the UN charter was only one of many reasonse.

Then you serve up the feeble rationalization that the thrust for Kiev was a “diversion” and not a military disaster. One wonders why any general or politician would continue to lose so much for a “diversion”

Dombass is not part of Russia. Neither is Ukraine. Your false representations to the contrary notwithstanding.
 

The Work Outing

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From your link:
Declaring the Donetskand Luhansk People's Republics (DPR and LPR, respectively), armed Russian-backed separatist groups seized government buildings throughout the Donbas, leading to armed conflict with Ukrainian government forces.[46]

Ukraine launched a military counter-offensive against pro-Russian forces in April 2014, called the "Anti-Terrorist Operation"
[47]

So, a portion of Ukraine decided they were a separate country and started an armed conflict. Sounds like what happened at the start of the American Civil War. Yet, you blame Ukraine for responding.
Yes.
Over 80% of Donbas citizens voted to leave.

So, Kiev started to murder them rather than let them do so.
I am against that.
Obviously, you are fine with it.

And if Texas (or any other state) voted over 80% to leave America?
Provided they took their share of the national debt on a per capita basis with them?
I would say 'adios'.

Ohhh...one more thing?

Please show me your posts where you STRONGLY condemned the US, GB and Saudi Arabia (the former two helped the latter) for the bombardment of Yemen that helped to cause over 85,000 Yemeni children to starve to death?


Or do you just object to wars when 'white' Christians are killed?
 
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The Work Outing

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Your reply is equally ridiculous and deliberately ignores Putin’s stated goals.

Back when trump was still in Putin’s pocket, Putin said that Ukraine was “part of Russia”, and trump agreed.

If you’re going to falsely represent the Russian backed gurella war against Ukraine in Dombass as killing “thousands of Dombass residents”, then you really are making a dishonest argument.

Of course, now it’s the Russian invaders who are killing thousands of Dombass residents.

Obviously, there has been no civilian uprising to support the Russian invaders in Dombass.

The “civilians” in question were the Russian and Russians backed “separatists”, and frequently Russian troops themselves. The Russians have been trying to grab Dombass since 2014.

Dombass is not part of Russia, and neither is Ukraine.

Yes, I mined the US invastion of Iraq….. a lot. And violating the UN charter was only one of many reasonse.

Then you serve up the feeble rationalization that the thrust for Kiev was a “diversion” and not a military disaster. One wonders why any general or politician would continue to lose so much for a “diversion”

Dombass is not part of Russia. Neither is Ukraine. Your false representations to the contrary notwithstanding.
Blah blah blah.

Oh...and it is 'Donbas'.
Not 'Dombass'.

I made my points and backed several of them up with links.
All you are doing is spewing out, emotional blather.

We are done here.
Keep believing whatever the MSM tell you to believe.

Once again:

I am TOTALLY against Russia invading Ukraine proper.
But calling Ukraine the 'good guys' is utterly ridiculous.
 

coyote505

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Nobody under 50 does
I plead guilty to being substantially over 50. That might account for me being a bit to the right of the majority here. As Winston Churchill has been reported to have said "Any man who isn't a liberal at 20 has no heart. Any man who isn't a conservative at 40 has no brain." It isn't that us geezers have never considered the problems with the world that you youngsters point out. In many cases we have, and have considered the solutions you have proposed, and have concluded that the proposed cure is worse than the disease.
 

The Work Outing

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I plead guilty to being substantially over 50. That might account for me being a bit to the right of the majority here. As Winston Churchill has been reported to have said "Any man who isn't a liberal at 20 has no heart. Any man who isn't a conservative at 40 has no brain." It isn't that us geezers have never considered the problems with the world that you youngsters point out. In many cases we have, and have considered the solutions you have proposed, and have concluded that the proposed cure is worse than the disease.
Well said (typed).
 

TomFitz

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Blah blah blah.

Oh...and it is 'Donbas'.
Not 'Dombass'.

I made my points and backed several of them up with links.
All you are doing is spewing out, emotional blather.

We are done here.
Keep believing whatever the MSM tell you to believe.

Once again:

I am TOTALLY against Russia invading Ukraine proper.
But calling Ukraine the 'good guys' is utterly ridiculous.

Since your’re pushing the Kremlin line here, and you can’t refute a word I said, I’ll take your “blah, blah, blah” response for exactly what it’s worth.

Your retreat to teh trumpian MSM label is equally telling. I do not rely on American media for my news about the Russian invastion of Ukraine. I get my news from around the world, not from the American ”MSM”, which is too parochial and superficial.

We all know where you get your instructions from.
 

highroller

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I plead guilty to being substantially over 50. That might account for me being a bit to the right of the majority here. As Winston Churchill has been reported to have said "Any man who isn't a liberal at 20 has no heart. Any man who isn't a conservative at 40 has no brain." It isn't that us geezers have never considered the problems with the world that you youngsters point out. In many cases we have, and have considered the solutions you have proposed, and have concluded that the proposed cure is worse than the disease.
Yeah… that saying isn’t true anymore
 
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