Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Con from State Dept .[W:52]

[trouble13]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

Really? Every solution you've heard involves "outlawing ways to convert energy?" Not a single plan that does something even a little bit different?

I have not heard of any no. Do you know of any?

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[Serenity]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

Moderator's Warning:

Moved from BN Forum. Thread is under mod review and posts prior to this mod warning are still subkect to moderation.

 

[Deuce]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

I have not heard of any no. Do you know of any?

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Erm, how about the most-infamous "cap and trade" plan, which doesn't actually outlaw anything?

 

[trouble13]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

Erm, how about the most-infamous "cap and trade" plan, which doesn't actually outlaw anything?

I did speak too fast because i did think of a couple solutions but not cap n trade. Cap n trade penalizes people for using too many carbons. Your penalizing people for using energy.

Alternative energies however is a fair example of trying to reduce the carbon footprint without outlawing anything. Theyer just very ineffecient so they are not cost effective.

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[Socrates1]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

That has exactly what to do with you believing something untrue? Are you unable to fact check? Google too tough for you?

Reported in the Washington Post , Trump is mis-quoted daily and liberals eat it up . :roll:

 

[Socrates1]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

Funny how that is not even remotely his words. You have had the facts given to you, why do you continue to spread a lie?

Those are quotes , I didn't make up anything . The mighty Washington Post also reported on Kerry's nonsense ! :lamo

 

[katzgar]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

no they dont misquote trump, they always show him saying the stupid stuff he says.

 

[Socrates1]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

How about a petition to get Kerry to stop being a hypocritical douchnozzle ****face. I'd sign that one.

I'm with you .

 

[katzgar]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

when trump endorsed clinton the election should have been over. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5A02pNcGHs

 

[Deuce]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

I did speak too fast because i did think of a couple solutions but not cap n trade. Cap n trade penalizes people for using too many carbons. Your penalizing people for using energy.

Alternative energies however is a fair example of trying to reduce the carbon footprint without outlawing anything. Theyer just very ineffecient so they are not cost effective.

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Right, and a cap and trade system is designed to tilt the balance towards the alternatives to encourage their development. The best part about the system is that it's not a "do this our way" kind of mandate. Businesses and individuals are free to come up with methods on their own, competition will demonstrate which is the most cost-effective. Even the emissions credits are a competition. If your business comes in "under the cap," you have credits to sell to a business that doesn't, and the price is not dictated by the EPA. A competitive advantage. It's a "free market solution to a serious problem" and the model was very successful in reducing lead emissions as well as pollutants like sulfur dioxide.

At least, that's how Republicans were explaining it to me up until November 2008. Suddenly Republicans everywhere were attacking an idea they invented as "socialism" and "redistribution of wealth." Instantly, every conservative voter forgot that Newt Gingrich, Tim Pawlenty, Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Sarah Palin all supported the idea. ("Global warming is felt most strongly in Alaska" - Palin) They forgot that Reagan and both Presidents Bush implemented or expanded upon a cap and trade plan.

Coincidentally, I'm sure, this flop happened exactly when a Democrat took the white house.

 

[trouble13]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

Right, and a cap and trade system is designed to tilt the balance towards the alternatives to encourage their development. The best part about the system is that it's not a "do this our way" kind of mandate. Businesses and individuals are free to come up with methods on their own, competition will demonstrate which is the most cost-effective. Even the emissions credits are a competition. If your business comes in "under the cap," you have credits to sell to a business that doesn't, and the price is not dictated by the EPA. A competitive advantage. It's a "free market solution to a serious problem" and the model was very successful in reducing lead emissions as well as pollutants like sulfur dioxide.

At least, that's how Republicans were explaining it to me up until November 2008. Suddenly Republicans everywhere were attacking an idea they invented as "socialism" and "redistribution of wealth." Instantly, every conservative voter forgot that Newt Gingrich, Tim Pawlenty, Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Sarah Palin all supported the idea. ("Global warming is felt most strongly in Alaska" - Palin) They forgot that Reagan and both Presidents Bush implemented or expanded upon a cap and trade plan.

Coincidentally, I'm sure, this flop happened exactly when a Democrat took the white house.

So your squarely in the camp that believes mankind has a significant impact on the planets climate and that we are so destructive a species that we are jeapordizing the planets ability to host life. Its an important distinction to recoginize because thats your starting point.

My view is that i dont disagree that our existence has some influence. I just question how much impact we have. I suspect its much less than the alarmists think.

You support cap n trade because its designed to satisify your goal of making our carbon footprint smaller. I dont like it because it inhibits our ability to create and transfer energy the cheapest ways possible.

Imo its extremely irresponsible to artificially increase energy costs. Let the free market dictate how we make energy and how much it costs. Energy=work=progress. Imo cap n trade is a regressive policy.

As far as the partisan stuff goes, i steer clear of that. Im more concerned with the nuts n bolts of how we effectively we produce energy.



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[Deuce]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

So your squarely in the camp that believes mankind has a significant impact on the planets climate and that we are so destructive a species that we are jeapordizing the planets ability to host life. Its an important distinction to recoginize because thats your starting point.

My view is that i dont disagree that our existence has some influence. I just question how much impact we have. I suspect its much less than the alarmists think.

You support cap n trade because its designed to satisify your goal of making our carbon footprint smaller. I dont like it because it inhibits our ability to create and transfer energy the cheapest ways possible.

Imo its extremely irresponsible to artificially increase energy costs. Let the free market dictate how we make energy and how much it costs. Energy=work=progress. Imo cap n trade is a regressive policy.

As far as the partisan stuff goes, i steer clear of that. Im more concerned with the nuts n bolts of how we effectively we produce energy.



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Dumping coal waste in the nearest river is the cheapest use of energy.

 

[Redress]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

Reported in the Washington Post , Trump is mis-quoted daily and liberals eat it up . :roll:

Really? Can you show where I have "ate up" a misquote of Trump? Bet you can't...

 

[Redress]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

Those are quotes , I didn't make up anything . The mighty Washington Post also reported on Kerry's nonsense ! :lamo

And yet Kerry did not say what you claim. Funny how that works. So why do you keep spreading lies?

 

[Kobie]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

Reported in the Washington Post , Trump is mis-quoted daily and liberals eat it up . :roll:

No, he's not. That's a lie.

 

[trouble13]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

Dumping coal waste in the nearest river is the cheapest use of energy.

Would you perfer the world doesn't generate power? That pretty much dooms our species to a miserable and short existence. We literally die without energy.

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[PirateMk1]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

Hes correct to a degree. The phasing put of R22 ( to be gone completely by 2020 ) is causing allot of problems

Mainly with Homeowners who have older R22 systems but dont have the cash to spring for a New 410A install because the two refrigerants are not compatible.

This has led to people using propane as a replacement to R22 because it has roughly the same Pressure/ temperature charactesrics

R410A also runs at about 160% higher pressures than R22. This requires large coil surface areas amd physically much larger units.

Drop ins for R22 are typically zeotropic blends that lack the stability of single chemical refrigerants like R22.

This means if you have a small leak the entire charge has to be pulled and brand new refrigerant has to be put back in. Its very expensive.

There was nothing wrong with R22 and Govt intervention has caused a host of unintended consequences that have hurt cash strapped bussinesses and homeowners the most.

We used to run R-22 in automobiles awhile ago now we run r134. R22 is used because it works well.

 

[Kobie]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

Would you perfer the world doesn't generate power? That pretty much dooms our species to a miserable and short existence. We literally die without energy.

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This is what we call a Strawman Argument.

 

[trouble13]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

We used to run R-22 in automobiles awhile ago now we run r134. R22 is used because it works well.

Just as an fyi for you,

Actually we use to use r12 in automotive a/c and refrigeration systems but it was a cfc and 134 was created as a replacement for that. The chlorine molecule in that compound was supposedly attacking the ozone. As far as i know r22 was not used in automotive a/c but it did it make it into refrigeration applications.



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[trouble13]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

This is what we call a Strawman Argument.

No it is a legitimate question in response to his comment. If the complaint is tha a byproduct of producing energy is polution. Its legitimate to question where we draw the line. Our life span and our comfort is directly related to the amount of energy we can produce. My argument is that things like cap n trade and the montreal protocol act do more harm than they do good because they hinder our ability to use available energy.

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[Deuce]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

Would you perfer the world doesn't generate power? That pretty much dooms our species to a miserable and short existence. We literally die without energy.

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A couple posts back you were talking about cheap energy usage and now you've jumped all the way to no energy usage.

 

[PirateMk1]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

Just as an fyi for you,

Actually we use to use r12 in automotive a/c and refrigeration systems but it was a cfc and 134 was created as a replacement for that. The chlorine molecule in that compound was supposedly attacking the ozone. As far as i know r22 was not used in automotive a/c but it did it make it into refrigeration applications.



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Thanks. I knew there was a 2 in there somewhere and it was banned.

 

[Fletch]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

Listen, you're claiming the Montreal Protocol will cause the downfall of civilization. If you don't want to be mocked, don't talk like a doomsday prophet.

Only the doomsday prophets of the left are allowed to use scare tactics to get their way it seems.

 

[trouble13]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

A couple posts back you were talking about cheap energy usage and now you've jumped all the way to no energy usage.

Yeah snd we were talking about cap n trade and you went to the extreme of dumping waste into rivers

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[trouble13]

Re: Petition with Over 35,000 signatures to remove ALL air Conditioners from State De

Only the doomsday prophets of the left are allowed to use scare tactics to get their way it seems.

I wasnt even trying to scare anyone i was only trying to emphasize how much we depend on a chemical they are banning before they have developed absuitable replacement

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