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Personhood at fertilization

RightinNYC

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I don't really feel like getting involved in this debate on either side, but I heard an interesting question and I'd like to see what people think.

If you believe that personhood begins at fertilization:

A fire breaks out in a fertility clinic. There is a 3 month old baby in one corner of the room and a petri dish with 5 fertilized eggs in the other corner. You can only save one. Which do you save?
 

talloulou

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RightatNYU said:
I don't really feel like getting involved in this debate on either side, but I heard an interesting question and I'd like to see what people think.

If you believe that personhood begins at fertilization:

A fire breaks out in a fertility clinic. There is a 3 month old baby in one corner of the room and a petri dish with 5 fertilized eggs in the other corner. You can only save one. Which do you save?

I'd save the 3 month old baby!

But how 'bout this one:

There's two pregnant women in a room. One of them is planning on aborting the baby she is carrying....the other is planning on giving birth to the baby she is carrying. I can only save one of the women? Guess which one I save?
:rofl

Hope you found my scenario as ridiculous and baiting as I found yours!
 

jimmyjack

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RightatNYU said:
I don't really feel like getting involved in this debate on either side, but I heard an interesting question and I'd like to see what people think.

If you believe that personhood begins at fertilization:

A fire breaks out in a fertility clinic. There is a 3 month old baby in one corner of the room and a petri dish with 5 fertilized eggs in the other corner. You can only save one. Which do you save?

Those in the dish are already dying, so we ought to save the baby.
 

RightinNYC

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talloulou said:
I'd save the 3 month old baby!

But how 'bout this one:

There's two pregnant women in a room. One of them is planning on aborting the baby she is carrying....the other is planning on giving birth to the baby she is carrying. I can only save one of the women? Guess which one I save?
:rofl

Hope you found my scenario as ridiculous and baiting as I found yours!

I did. Its meant to be ridiculous, in order to spur debate. I've heard a rumor somewhere that its possible for things to be discussed without people immediately resorting to hysterics. Lets see how long this can remain civil.
 

RightinNYC

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jimmyjack said:
Those in the dish are already dying, so we ought to save the baby.

They're already dying? Fetuses in a petri dish are implanted into a woman, who then becomes pregnant. Assume these are 5 fertilized eggs, each of which will be implanted into a donor mother.
 

jimmyjack

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RightatNYU said:
They're already dying? Fetuses in a petri dish are implanted into a woman, who then becomes pregnant. Assume these are 5 fertilized eggs, each of which will be implanted into a donor mother.

So if they are independent of the woman and can survive outside the womb, why do you believe it is right not to grant them the rights of personhood?
 
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RightinNYC

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jimmyjack said:
So if they are independent of the woman and can survive outside the womb, why do you believe it is right not to grant them the rights of personhood?

Did I say I did?

It's simply a hypothetical intended to provoke discussion. Rather than speculate as to what my own beliefs might be, why not address the topic?
 

jimmyjack

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RightatNYU said:
Did I say I did?

It's simply a hypothetical intended to provoke discussion. Rather than speculate as to what my own beliefs might be, why not address the topic?

Well it is obvious you are against granting the foetus rights because you are in favour of IVF.
 

talloulou

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I think most people would save the baby for the very same reason people find abortion acceptable.

The baby can cry and scream and we can relate to it in away that our senses can not as easily relate to a fertilized embryo.

But what does that mean?

I can't watch surgeries on TV 'cause it makes me sick and my brain refuses to relate to what I am seeing the way a surgeon can. It's all about perception and how you relate to something.

Since we all start out as fertilized embryos I'm not sure that the fact that they can't cry and scream yet makes them of lesser value. I can understand how the senses perceive that to be so though. But still they are developing humans and so why should I let my perceptions decide their value?
 

Naughty Nurse

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jimmyjack said:
Well it is obvious you are against granting the foetus rights because you are in favour of IVF.

??????????????????????????????????????
 

Iriemon

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jimmyjack said:
So if they are independent of the woman and can survive outside the womb, why do you believe it is right not to grant them the rights of personhood?

Because you have to be a person to have rights of personhood.
 

Naughty Nurse

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jimmyjack said:
Not a good example of an articulate reply.

Was just expressing my confusion at your statement which didn't make any sense to me.
 

jimmyjack

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Naughty Nurse said:
Was just expressing my confusion at your statement which didn't make any sense to me.

If you follow the thread from the start, it makes perfect sense.
 

Iriemon

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jimmyjack said:
Why are they not people?

Same reason they are not human beings we discussed on the other thread.
 

jimmyjack

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Iriemon said:
Same reason they are not human beings we discussed on the other thread.

But you said they are human beings:

Iriemon said:
It's gotta be preferable to killing single celled microscopic human beings.
 

Naughty Nurse

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jimmyjack said:
At what point does it not make sense?

OK - I've reread everything. I guess you're saying that IVF denies foetal rights because some will inevitably be wasted?
 
F

FallingPianos

jimmyjack said:
At what point does it not make sense?

here...

RightatNYU said:
They're already dying? Fetuses in a petri dish are implanted into a woman, who then becomes pregnant. Assume these are 5 fertilized eggs, each of which will be implanted into a donor mother.
jimmyjack said:
So if they are independent of the woman and can survive outside the womb, why do you believe it is right not to grant them the rights of personhood?
where did you get the idea that they can survive outside the womb, and where did you get the impression that he believes its right not to grant personhood?

and this one...

RightatNYU said:
Did I say I did?
It's simply a hypothetical intended to provoke discussion. Rather than speculate as to what my own beliefs might be, why not address the topic?
jimmyjack said:
Well it is obvious you are against granting the foetus rights because you are in favour of IVF.
where did you get the idea he's in favour of IVF, and how does that lead to him not granting rights to the fetus?
 

jimmyjack

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Naughty Nurse said:
OK - I've reread everything. I guess you're saying that IVF denies foetal rights because some will inevitably be wasted?

No, that is not what I’m saying.

If someone decided to put you into storage then into a dish amongst other people, I would say, that is a violation of your rights.
 

Naughty Nurse

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jimmyjack said:
No, that is not what I’m saying.

If someone decided to put you into storage then into a dish amongst other people, I would say, that is a violation of your rights.

OK I was right the first time. No sense.
 

Iriemon

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jimmyjack said:
But you said they are human beings:

Jimmyjack, if you didn't understand it, I was being ironic.
 
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