Personal Politics & PTSD (1 Viewer)

[ptsdkid]

As you may know, I like to bring political idealism down to a personal level so as to help capture each person’s enthusiasm and possible contribution to the debating forum of ideas, beliefs, opinions and experiences.

This post will explain why 45 years of PTSD (Posttraumatic Stress Disorder) has helped shape my Conservative ideology. Granted, these are my personal experiences; they do not suggest that other severely traumatized people will naturally follow lockstep into the wonderful world of Conservatism. I will explain how weaker-willed trauma victims often fall prey to a liberal ideology.

I do apologize for presenting a debatable topic while having 45 years of experience to back up my position. Keep in mind that those of you feeling the need to question my views will undoubtedly find relief in knowing that I’ll be available for debate while tying ¾ of my brain behind my back just to make it fair. I’ve always believed in leveling the playing field for those of you that are truly handicapped. I have yet to sway from this time honored tradition.

The detailed history behind my traumas is unimportant for now. I will say that I was traumatized at the age of eleven from child abuse, with the culmination coming from combat during the Vietnam war.

Though I wasn’t mature enough to fight off aggressive adult authority figures at the age of eleven, I quickly learned to question and to be leery of all authority figures throughout life (especially including officers in the military). Having and creating a voice of my own had helped me to ward off (survive) each and every bullying authority boss and so-called superiors in my life. No one but myself was to have my best interest at heart.

I didn’t get involved in politics until I heard clinicians trying to prescribe psychotropic drugs to me during an inpatient stay at a veterans hospital for PTSD. Perhaps it was my understanding the difference between right or wrong, good or evil, survival or defeatism, bullying authority figures or innate common sense, a weakening shield or protective vigilance--that made me shout “NO WAY…NO DRUGS FOR ME!”

I see severely traumatized victims/veterans living out their lives in one of two fashions:

#1 They can fight for everything worthwhile in their life by not settling for the easy way out in achieving that objective. They can avoid being habitually doped up on anti depressant/Psychotropic drugs by seeking alternative natural therapy treatment plans. They will refuse to be labeled a handicapped person, by setting and reaching designed goals, defending family and country, overcome perceived and actual debilitating symptoms by taking each one head on. In essence, you will then have adopted the Conservative approach to our American culture by becoming resolve oriented and economically and physically resilient.

#2 You can become passive or perhaps join an anti American rally so as to vent personal inadequacies and frustrations with like-minded cohorts who also feel your unending pain. You can learn how to adapt to an institutionalized life in a hospital setting while the government dotes on you by supplying all the mind and body numbing drugs that you could possibly swallow. You’ll always live in a safe milieu where the only possible threat to life may come from quibbling with another patient over which soap opera to watch in the recreation room. You’ll be guaranteed a roof over your head, clean sheets for the bedding, and three hot meals a day free of charge. The only life altering or life challenging decision you might make, would be to accept or refuse a weekend pass so as to have the option to see what the real world looks like.

You may have guessed that all of my liberal cohort friends have fallen squarely into category #2.

The lifestyle of category #1 was a personal description to that of yours truly…PTSDKID (Conservative Incorporated).

 

[Spartacus FPV]

I do apologize for presenting a debatable topic while having 45 years of experience to back up my position.

:rofl

I didn’t get involved in politics until I heard clinicians trying to prescribe psychotropic drugs to me during an inpatient stay at a veterans hospital for PTSD. Perhaps it was my understanding the difference between right or wrong, good or evil, survival or defeatism, bullying authority figures or innate common sense, a weakening shield or protective vigilance--that made me shout “NO WAY…NO DRUGS FOR ME!”

At least now I understand, you really are off your meds. What was the point of this post anyways? :2wave:

 

[ptsdkid]

:rofl



At least now I understand, you really are off your meds. What was the point of this post anyways? :2wave:

***Really are off my meds? Haven't I made it clear all along that I despise the use of drugs? I thought I had made it clear that (at least for PTSD sufferers) that there are two political options for the person to choose from. This might be a good time to suggest that most liberals will fall into category #2 regardless of whether they have PTSD or not.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

I know its wrong to poke fun at the handicapped but you're asking for it....

You are mentally unstable, and you should take what doctors prescribe for you. Although im sure it will come at a sacrifice to the hilarity of your posts, some clearheadedness may be good for you.

Your contempt for the use of drugs is baseless, would you avoid anti-biotics if you had strep?

 

[ptsdkid]

I know its wrong to poke fun at the handicapped but you're asking for it....

You are mentally unstable, and you should take what doctors prescribe for you. Although im sure it will come at a sacrifice to the hilarity of your posts, some clearheadedness may be good for you.

***Thanks for volunteering to be my de facto shrink, Doctor Lachean.

Your contempt for the use of drugs is baseless, would you avoid anti-biotics if you had strep?

***My contempt is for mind altering, dangerous habitual psychothropic drugs. I would entertain the use of anti biotics if and when the time and need arose.

 

[cherokee]

What’s your excuse Lachean?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Ptsdkid, as I have stated in another thread, I applaude you for coping with what I know to be a potentially debilitaing condition. I know it must require work every day, and though I don't agree with practically everything you stand for, I wish you well with your continued recovery.

Be that as it may (did you really think I would stop there) most of your post makes no sense (as is typical). I respect your personal experiences, but they are just that; your personal experiences. There is no correlation between recovery from PTSD and political affiliation, and, as usual, you offer no concerte substantiation for that other than your own opinion . As someone who treats and has treated many with PTSD, I can tell you that there is no correlation between recovery prognosis and political affiliation.

 

[ptsdkid]

Be that as it may (did you really think I would stop there) most of your post makes no sense (as is typical). I respect your personal experiences, but they are just that; your personal experiences. There is no correlation between recovery from PTSD and political affiliation, and, as usual, you offer no concerte substantiation for that other than your own opinion . As someone who treats and has treated many with PTSD, I can tell you that there is no correlation between recovery prognosis and political affiliation.

***Could you be a little more specific? My post makes perfect sense. I lived with those guys for 4 months, so I got to know them quite well. We had intense talks about everything in life (including politics). I will accept the fact that most if not all the guys had already formed a political mindset well before the VA program. However, most of the liberals still fell squarely into category #2 as laid out by my first posting. All of the Conservatives are doing well as I keep tabs on them. Each Conservative has nearly mirrored my personal description as defined in category #1. Its pretty hard to keep refuting my personal experiences, though I commend your obstinacy.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

***Could you be a little more specific? My post makes perfect sense. I lived with those guys for 4 months, so I got to know them quite well. We had intense talks about everything in life (including politics). I will accept the fact that most if not all the guys had already formed a political mindset well before the VA program. However, most of the liberals still fell squarely into category #2 as laid out by my first posting. All of the Conservatives are doing well as I keep tabs on them. Each Conservative has nearly mirrored my personal description as defined in category #1. Its pretty hard to keep refuting my personal experiences, though I commend your obstinacy.

Ptsdkid, I'm not refuting your personal experiences. I absolutely believe that what you say about your ordeal with PTSD and with the other veterans' ordeal to be completely true. Your very specific (based on my own experiences) descriptions verify that for me. What I'm refuting is your penchant for taking your personal experiences and applying them globally with no substantiation, faulty logic, and without acknowledging confounding factors. Many factors affect psychological recovery prognosis with political affiliation being an extremely minor one. And again, no correlation one way or the other between the two.

And thank you for your compliment on my stubborness. :smile: I would have to admit that, you too, have that quality.

 

[ptsdkid]

Ptsdkid, I'm not refuting your personal experiences. I absolutely believe that what you say about your ordeal with PTSD and with the other veterans' ordeal to be completely true. Your very specific (based on my own experiences) descriptions verify that for me. What I'm refuting is your penchant for taking your personal experiences and applying them globally with no substantiation, faulty logic, and without acknowledging confounding factors. Many factors affect psychological recovery prognosis with political affiliation being an extremely minor one. And again, no correlation one way or the other between the two.

And thank you for your compliment on my stubborness. :smile: I would have to admit that, you too, have that quality.

***I don't recall applying my personal experiences globally from this post. In fact, I specifically tied the political affiliations to the veterans of that 1992 PTSD cohort. I also mentioned that most of those guys had already formed a political base of sorts before entering the program. Its thier post treatment political association that is key here. Refer back to category #2 so as to familarize yourself with the liberal lifestyle. I said familarize yourself with it--not to abide with it's destructive tenet.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

***I don't recall applying my personal experiences globally from this post. In fact, I specifically tied the political affiliations to the veterans of that 1992 PTSD cohort. I also mentioned that most of those guys had already formed a political base of sorts before entering the program. Its thier post treatment political association that is key here. Refer back to category #2 so as to familarize yourself with the liberal lifestyle. I said familarize yourself with it--not to abide with it's destructive tenet.

Oh well, back to Debating Techniques 101, I see. :2razz:

I will explain how weaker-willed trauma victims often fall prey to a liberal ideology.

If you didn't mean this to be a global statement, I would think you would have included a disclaimer in this statement, like 'weaker-will trauma victims that I have seen'. Either you meant this globally, you were overgeneralizing, or your statement was poorly constructed.

I see severely traumatized victims/veterans living out their lives in one of two fashions:

Similar to the above. 'I have seen' is the more personal format, where as 'I see' is more global.

Neither of these statements can really be confused as not being global generalizations. Besides, ptsdkid, let's not kid anyone, here. You don't like liberal philosophy and will blame it for all of the world's (or at least the US's) ills, no matter how far-fetched, inaccurate, or flat out incorrect. You consistently create illogical, inconclusive, or nonexistant correlations.

Also, you identified that the veterans had already formed their political affiliations prior to treatment, in a subsequent post, after I called you on this issue, initially.

Beyond all of this, your premise of what is the liberal lifestyle is false, and full of overgeneralizations, gross misiterpretations and inaccuracies. Category #2 does not describe the liberal lifestyle, only the liberal lifestyle in your own mind.


If as you say, your premise is that, in your experience, you have seen liberal veterens in these programs do far worse than conservative ones, I will concede this point. I have not seen any of them, and have no evidence or reason to call you a liar.

If you are claiming that this is a global premise, I can tell you that you are absolutely incorrect. Globally, there is no correlation.

 

[ptsdkid]

Oh well, back to Debating Techniques 101, I see. :2razz:



If you didn't mean this to be a global statement, I would think you would have included a disclaimer in this statement, like 'weaker-will trauma victims that I have seen'. Either you meant this globally, you were overgeneralizing, or your statement was poorly constructed.

***It would be so easy for me to say, "if the shoe fits globally, it probably does belong to a liberal". But I'll prefer to take a page out of your notebook by remaining deliberately stubborn. All my comments here are specifically aimed at my former cohorts, as my personal experiences include them.


Similar to the above. 'I have seen' is the more personal format, where as 'I see' is more global.

Neither of these statements can really be confused as not being global generalizations. Besides, ptsdkid, let's not kid anyone, here. You don't like liberal philosophy and will blame it for all of the world's (or at least the US's) ills, no matter how far-fetched, inaccurate, or flat out incorrect. You consistently create illogical, inconclusive, or nonexistant correlations.

***Of course I despise liberal philosophy. So why would it come as a surprise to you that I use personal experiences to back up my claims. I tend to deal in facts, and these facts seem to get debated by liberals every day. So be it, as long as we know who is right. Btw, you are right, my views, the facts, my opinions etc do include the wider global spectrum of liberalism. Liberal symptomology is universal in scope. Quick trying to run from your basic belief system; it makes for a one-sided debate process.

Also, you identified that the veterans had already formed their political affiliations prior to treatment, in a subsequent post, after I called you on this issue, initially.

***I don't know where you're going with this.

Beyond all of this, your premise of what is the liberal lifestyle is false, and full of overgeneralizations, gross misiterpretations and inaccuracies. Category #2 does not describe the liberal lifestyle, only the liberal lifestyle in your own mind.

***I disagree with everything you say there. I'm right on the money and you know it.


If as you say, your premise is that, in your experience, you have seen liberal veterens in these programs do far worse than conservative ones, I will concede this point. I have not seen any of them, and have no evidence or reason to call you a liar.

***Start conceding.

If you are claiming that this is a global premise, I can tell you that you are absolutely incorrect. Globally, there is no correlation.

***It is my global premise, but lets try sticking to one thread at a time. Believe me, I'm not done picking apart the wicked theme to liberalism. I'm just warming up.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

***It is my global premise, but lets try sticking to one thread at a time. Believe me, I'm not done picking apart the wicked theme to liberalism. I'm just warming up.

:sigh: I guess I must, once again, expose you for the poor debater that you are.

First, do you realize you contradicted yourself? First you said this:

All my comments here are specifically aimed at my former cohorts, as my personal experiences include them.

But then you said:

Btw, you are right, my views, the facts, my opinions etc do include the wider global spectrum of liberalism.

And:

It is my global premise

OK, so which is it, your personal experiences or a global premise?

Moving right along.

Of course I despise liberal philosophy. So why would it come as a surprise to you that I use personal experiences to back up my claims.

Doesn't surprise me at all. This is probably the one debating technique you use that is consistent and fairly logical. But then...

I tend to deal in facts, and these facts seem to get debated by liberals every day.

Nope. As you have stated you use personal experiences to back up your claims of the liberal philosophy. That is OK, but you provide no other facts to back this up. Without them, all you have is opinion.

Up next:

Beyond all of this, your premise of what is the liberal lifestyle is false, and full of overgeneralizations, gross misiterpretations and inaccuracies. Category #2 does not describe the liberal lifestyle, only the liberal lifestyle in your own mind.

I disagree with everything you say there. I'm right on the money and you know it.

You can disagree all you like, but I'm completely on the money and you know it.

Start conceding.

You do realize what I'm conceding to, correct? I am conceding that you are not lying and that your experience with both yourself and other veterans with PTSD has shown you that in this isolated situation, liberals have tended to fare worse than conservatives in recovery from this disorder. I am not conceding anything beyond this small parameter. I am also saying that this makes no statement or correlation towards anything global in dealing with this situation.

 

[tecoyah]

You do realize what I'm conceding to, correct? I am conceding that you are not lying and that your experience with both yourself and other veterans with PTSD has shown you that in this isolated situation, liberals have tended to fare worse than conservatives in recovery from this disorder. I am not conceding anything beyond this small parameter. I am also saying that this makes no statement or correlation towards anything global in dealing with this situation.

In all Honesty...if "The Kid" is an example of "Faring Well".....I hope the Liberals that are doing worse are secure in a rubber room, or at least heavily Medicated.
Truly Kid, you base everything you type on Opinion, and nothing...I repeat NOTHING else. Your constant ranting on the evils of Liberal thinking are an obvious manifestation of a personal hatred for the ideology, and based on select instances of transgression by individuals who tend to be less liberal than you portray them to be. If you wish to express your opinion, do so...its a free society, but at least have the integrity to claim it as your opinion, rather than placing it into the realm of fact.

It may be fact to you....but it certainly is not to me.

 

[ptsdkid]

In all Honesty...if "The Kid" is an example of "Faring Well".....I hope the Liberals that are doing worse are secure in a rubber room, or at least heavily Medicated.
Truly Kid, you base everything you type on Opinion, and nothing...I repeat NOTHING else. Your constant ranting on the evils of Liberal thinking are an obvious manifestation of a personal hatred for the ideology, and based on select instances of transgression by individuals who tend to be less liberal than you portray them to be. If you wish to express your opinion, do so...its a free society, but at least have the integrity to claim it as your opinion, rather than placing it into the realm of fact.

It may be fact to you....but it certainly is not to me.

***What is all this double talk I'm getting from you and el Capitante? How is it my opinion that at least one half of the PTSD veterans from my former cohort have and do engage in a liberal ideology? How is it only my opinion that those liberal veterans have each given up the fight to beat the emotional debilities that have plagued us all by institutionalizing their lives--thus taking the easy way out?

What I see from these liberal veterans isn't that much different than the pacifist/dovish cut-and-run role of civilian liberals on a national level, and that's a fact jack. What you and el capitante might want to do...is to prove me wrong by defending your liberal ideology with facts that would counter my assertions. To date, I have yet to see any liberal defend their destructive ideology. That comes as no surprise to me, as we all know the word 'liberal' brings up all kinds of negative conotations--and thus, you all seem to run away from it like it's some kind of plague--which it is.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

What is all this double talk I'm getting from you and el Capitante? How is it my opinion that at least one half of the PTSD veterans from my former cohort have and do engage in a liberal ideology? How is it only my opinion that those liberal veterans have each given up the fight to beat the emotional debilities that have plagued us all by institutionalizing their lives--thus taking the easy way out?

No double talk from me. I do not claim that the above is your opinion. I claim (as have you) that it has been your experience, and therefore these are facts within the parameters of that experience.

What I see from these liberal veterans isn't that much different than the pacifist/dovish cut-and-run role of civilian liberals on a national level, and that's a fact jack. What you and el capitante might want to do...is to prove me wrong by defending your liberal ideology with facts that would counter my assertions. To date, I have yet to see any liberal defend their destructive ideology. That comes as no surprise to me, as we all know the word 'liberal' brings up all kinds of negative conotations--and thus, you all seem to run away from it like it's some kind of plague--which it is.

This is where you start veering off to the overgeneralization, opinion not fact route. I will say again: your experiences are facts within that parameter...they do not transfer to a global position as you have no facts to show they do. You do know one of the basic tenets to prove research valid: repeatablity. Show evidence that your experience has been repeated in other venues and I will be happy to debate the issue with you. Until then, all you are doing are expressing illogical overgeneralizations without substantiations. Your statements are opinions alone, but you express them as if they are facts (which they aren't) or that they are better than other's opinions (which they aren't). That communication style results in pointless arguing, something I refuse to engage in. Until that changes, I will continue to address the fallacies of your premises, nothing more.

 

[Tashah]

Moderator's Warning:

Moved to a more appropriate forum

 

[1069]

It sounds like the thread starter is laboring under the delusion that his anecdotal experiences constitute some sort of empirical evidence which supports his theory. A logical fallacy if I ever saw one.