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Personal financial incompetence. No wonder people vote democrat.

I regard my responsibility to have a substantial savings as being far greater that my employer's responsibility to pay me on time.
Oh, I don't disagree about personal finance.

But payroll is the "do not f**k this up" #1 priority in any company. For it to be SO messed up that no one got paid? That's BAD. That's like REALLY bad.
 
Yeah....I've been personally pulled in to help with payroll (I work in HR/Talent predominantly) but payroll is the "sacred" land. No one is more important than getting that payroll out on time...and it is all hands on deck to fix any blips (which is how I've gotten pulled in before)



And yeah...I never want to be house poor. No way, no how.
Yeah the house I bought is nice, it has a gigantic sun room for example, but I bought one that either me or my fiancée can afford if the other is jobless for a minute.

Plus we keep six months of expenses in cash. I am very blessed though. I just got a job recently and am making 50k than this time last year.
 
Oh, I don't disagree about personal finance.

But payroll is the "do not f**k this up" #1 priority in any company. For it to be SO messed up that no one got paid? That's BAD. That's like REALLY bad.

There's no doubt there was a lot incompetence going around. I think though, with regard to my financial view, I'm projecting my priorities on others and being judgmental. One of my coworkers borrowed $30k from his wife's 401k to side his house, and his house didn't really need siding in my opinion. Then again my house probably ranks a 4 out of 10 for curb appeal in the neighborhood, but it's paid for.
 
Yeah the house I bought is nice, it has a gigantic sun room for example, but I bought one that either me or my fiancée can afford if the other is jobless for a minute.
Yep. That's smart planning. We did the same and it have never regretted it.
 
At my company, paychecks didn't go out today due to a mishap. It looks like a lot of people have their mortgages auto-paid on the 1st, and depend on a "just in time" cash infusion with their paychecks. There was much gnashing of teeth. Median home value in the area is $450,000, median household income is $65,000.

If one is in a position where they don't have $3000 in a savings account, one is in desperate financial straits and in need of financial counseling. This person would be desperately overspent. and barring the inability to work, has a spending problem akin to gambling. There's also a possibility that the person doesn't understand the US monetary system.
None of this adds up. First of all, your company misses a pay period while a Democrat is in office, yet it makes you want to vote Democrat.

Second, you not having in fiscal intelligence has nothing to do with politics. When you spend all you make, you are setting yourself up for trouble.
 
Trying to fault individuals for what is at root a systemic problem is the hallmark of right-wing idiocy.

Get Generations Y and Z back to the days where a whole family could acquire a home and a vehicle on one man's HS diploma salary and then we can ****ing talk.

Also while we're doing that, we can also have a nice "financial incompetence" discussion about how your boy is literally worth less than if he had thrown all of the money daddy gave him into an index fund.
 
Trying to fault individuals for what is at root a systemic problem is the hallmark of right-wing idiocy.

Get Generations Y and Z back to the days where a whole family could acquire a home and a vehicle on one man's HS diploma salary and then we can ****ing talk.
Let me clue you here dude. First of all, with near record inflation like we are seeing now, far less people are going to be able to afford a home.

Second, illegal immigrants have flooded the unskilled and semi-skilled job markets. These people will work for much less. The wages in these markets have been dormant or declining for three decades. The days of making a decent living with just a HS diploma are long gone. Even getting into one of the building trades or auto mechanic job takes post HS training now.

So, if you want to blame someone. Blame open borders and policies that are causing runaway inflation. They have nothing to do with the right-wing.
 
At my company, paychecks didn't go out today due to a mishap. It looks like a lot of people have their mortgages auto-paid on the 1st, and depend on a "just in time" cash infusion with their paychecks. There was much gnashing of teeth. Median home value in the area is $450,000, median household income is $65,000.

If one is in a position where they don't have $3000 in a savings account, one is in desperate financial straits and in need of financial counseling. This person would be desperately overspent. and barring the inability to work, has a spending problem akin to gambling. There's also a possibility that the person doesn't understand the US monetary system.
as an ex cfo of a 100m+ company, crap happens that sometimes is out of the companies control

over my 35+ years.....we had banks lose our entire payroll files, holidays screw up timing by 2-3 days, and so many glitches that i lost count

you figure out the problem, correct it as fast as humanly possible, and get the people paid

i remember one payroll cycle 25+ years ago, where the entire payroll file was lost by the bank who was issuing the checks, and we had to write 1600 checks at corporate the following day and have runners get them to the stores so people would have their money

It is not always the fault of the payroll or HR department....though they always get the blame
 
At my company, paychecks didn't go out today due to a mishap. It looks like a lot of people have their mortgages auto-paid on the 1st, and depend on a "just in time" cash infusion with their paychecks. There was much gnashing of teeth. Median home value in the area is $450,000, median household income is $65,000.

If one is in a position where they don't have $3000 in a savings account, one is in desperate financial straits and in need of financial counseling. This person would be desperately overspent. and barring the inability to work, has a spending problem akin to gambling. There's also a possibility that the person doesn't understand the US monetary system.
Sounds more like a "systems" issue to me.
 
When I was in the army, a group of us were sent TDY to another base. Somehow the payroll got screwed up and we didn't get paid for over two months. We had to borrow money from the Red Cross to survive. This can happen anywhere.

Finance screw ups happen. It is not the end of the world. Computers glitch, payroll clerks may screw up, etc.

What you can count on is some drama queen will try to make a life or death deal out of it.
 
None of this adds up. First of all, your company misses a pay period while a Democrat is in office, yet it makes you want to vote Democrat.

Second, you not having in fiscal intelligence has nothing to do with politics. When you spend all you make, you are setting yourself up for trouble.

Those in fiscal distress are more likely to vote democrat.
 
It usually happens when the company simply can't make payroll.

Well, yeah. That would be $36000/year (not including insurance), leaving $29,000 for car note, food, utilities, etc.

Something tells me that Rickeroo is just telling tales.
You forgot to take out the 20% or so in fed and state taxes. After that, it leaves the household with roughly $1,400.00 per month to live on. Sounds to me like they need to downsize their home. The mortgage company should never have approved them.
 
Some unconfirmed anecdotal story used to take a political swipe... anyone else find this thread suspect?
 

The poor overwhelmingly vote democrat:

https://www.statista.com/statistics...e-exit-polls-of-the-2016-elections-by-income/

Roughly, higher salaries mean higher IQ. Those making under $50,000 are more likely to believe that a $30,000 car is going to help them out or that government officials are going to make their lives better. It's also likely that people making higher incomes would be influenced by emotional decisions regarding finance, therefore their perception of their own affluence would be reduced. This is why republicans don't own the upper income vote as much as democrats own the lower income vote.

Some unconfirmed anecdotal story used to take a political swipe... anyone else find this thread suspect?

It's not so much a political swipe - I'm judging those that waste money on items that don't contribute to their financial freedom, or more accurately, freedom from their employer. To me, $30,000 can buy a year off from work, or become a half a million in 40 years. It can certainly buy peace of mind.

To the financial fool or standard consumer, $30,000 means siding for their house, or a slightly upgraded Accord that will lose 20% of it's value in a year. I'd consider those things only when I had $500,000 in readily available investments, not including retirement funds.
 
The poor overwhelmingly vote democrat:

https://www.statista.com/statistics...e-exit-polls-of-the-2016-elections-by-income/

Roughly, higher salaries mean higher IQ. Those making under $50,000 are more likely to believe that a $30,000 car is going to help them out or that government officials are going to make their lives better. It's also likely that people making higher incomes would be influenced by emotional decisions regarding finance, therefore their perception of their own affluence would be reduced. This is why republicans don't own the upper income vote as much as democrats own the lower income vote.



It's not so much a political swipe - I'm judging those that waste money on items that don't contribute to their financial freedom, or more accurately, freedom from their employer. To me, $30,000 can buy a year off from work, or become a half a million in 40 years. It can certainly buy peace of mind.

To the financial fool or standard consumer, $30,000 means siding for their house, or a slightly upgraded Accord that will lose 20% of it's value in a year. I'd consider those things only when I had $500,000 in readily available investments, not including retirement funds.
IQ is garbage.

Al Gore makes more than you. Is he smarter than you?
 
At my company, paychecks didn't go out today due to a mishap. It looks like a lot of people have their mortgages auto-paid on the 1st, and depend on a "just in time" cash infusion with their paychecks. There was much gnashing of teeth. Median home value in the area is $450,000, median household income is $65,000.

If one is in a position where they don't have $3000 in a savings account, one is in desperate financial straits and in need of financial counseling. This person would be desperately overspent. and barring the inability to work, has a spending problem akin to gambling. There's also a possibility that the person doesn't understand the US monetary system.

You do realize that most people don't even have $1k in their savings account, yes? (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/survey-69-americans-less-1-171927256.html) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/19/56p...er-a-1000-emergency-expense-with-savings.html)
 
IQ is garbage.

Al Gore makes more than you. Is he smarter than you?

It's not an exact fit, but people generally have occupations that go along with their IQ, and pay is roughly commensurate with intelligence. A janitor is unlikely to have an IQ of 120, and a software engineer probably won't have an 80 IQ.

The main factor in financial security is personal finance management. This is why sports players go bankrupt, or a household making $150,000 a year at age 50 doesn't have a net worth of $3 million. It's a simple case of mismanagement, or misplaced priorities.


This is a very grim figure indeed.
 
Roughly, higher salaries mean higher IQ.
This is the kind of superficial, pseudo-intellectual nonsense that is the hallmark of right wing ideology. It's an example of AFFIRMATIONAL reasoning (i.e. Confirmation Bias). The TRUTH is that one cannot correlate IQ with income without doing a regression analysis that effectively accounts for a multitude of associated variables.

So let's talk about it.

The mean (average) IQ score is 100, of course. About 70% of the public holds an IQ within 1 standard deviation (above or below) of that mean of 100. In other words, about 70% of the public holds an IQ between 85 and 115. And about 85% of the public holds an IQ above 85 (i.e. there really aren't very many "dumb" people out there. Intelligence Test scores are evaluated every few years in order to maintain those standard deviations (i.e. 100 is average, etc.). But study after study has conclusively demonstrated that IQ scores are only weakly correlated to income (the added income is not a great as one might imagine), or to objective measures of "fiscal discipline" (savings, credit, etc.). And study after study has shown that, in REALITY, it's the so-called "smarter" (higher IQ) people with their somewhat higher incomes....and NOT the "low IQ" people with their lower incomes.... who are most guilty of living beyond their means.

IOW, there is no direct correlation between IQ and income. That link does exist, but it is weak. And, more importantly, IQ does NOT correlate with wealth -- meaning that the people who most commonly live beyond their means (i.e. the folk cited in your OP, who can't pay their mortgage is they miss one paycheck, etc.) -- are people with ABOVE average IQ, not lower IQ people.

The impact of IQ on wealth, income and financial distress

Regression results suggest no statistically distinguishable relationship between IQ scores and wealth. Financial distress, such as problems paying bills, going bankrupt or reaching credit card limits, is related to IQ scores not linearly but instead in a quadratic relationship. This means higher IQ scores sometimes increase the probability of being in financial difficulty.

Smarter people are no better off

...research has found that people who score higher on intelligence tests end up with the same net worth as others when lifestyle factors are taken into account. And the study confirms that you don’t have to be smart to be wealthy. The work reveals that while exceptionally smart individuals typically earn more, they are also more likely to spend to their credit card limit, compared with people of average intelligence.

Jay Zagorsky at Ohio State University...analysed personal financial information collected from 7500 people between the ages of 33 to 41. Subjects provided details about their cash flow – including wages, welfare payments, alimony, and stock dividends – and their overall net worth. They also answered questions about whether they had “maxed out” any of their credit cards, missed bill payments or filed for bankruptcy.

All the participants had taken an intelligence exam...

On the surface...analysis confirms the findings of previous studies linking higher intelligence with higher income. “Each point increase in IQ test scores is associated with $202 to $616 more income per year,” he says. For example, a person with a score of 130 (in the top 2%, in terms of IQ) might earn about $12,000 more per year than someone with an average IQ score of about 100.

But when controlled for other factors – such as divorce, years spent in school, type of work and inheritance – he found no link between IQ and net worth. In fact, people with a slightly above-average IQ...had an average net worth higher than those who were just a bit smarter...“IQ is clearly overwhelmed or trumped by the cultural imperative to consume,” says economist Richard Wolff at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, US. “People with higher IQs are acutely aware of all the goods and services that they can consume,”
 
Half the country have no savings, htey don't make enough even to be able to save, they can barely get by. But why would a right winger give a shit about facts and reality. Just shows how clueless right wingers are to reality.


Yeah, don't blame th3e millionaires and billionaires who can't pay livable wages while they jack up the cost of everything, but blame the worker working thier ass off and barely making enough to eat and have a home that they have no savings what so ever. And that's over 51% of the country.
 
“IQ is clearly overwhelmed or trumped by the cultural imperative to consume,” says economist Richard Wolff

I had an idea that this was true, as I had stated before that "It's also likely that people making higher incomes would be influenced by emotional decisions regarding finance". With higher IQ comes more things to get nervous about and more things to compensate for. There's a reason why not many Down syndrome people have depression.

However, you proved my point here:

Each point increase in IQ test scores is associated with $202 to $616 more income per year,

Socially, expenses tend to rise with income - the desire to consume is great as you've noted. However, I don't understand where someone would value siding their house over taking a year or two off work. Even if they don't take it off, there's a certain peace of mind that comes with affording to not work for 5 years.

So rather than consume comparatively useless things like house siding, a new car or too much house, I'd much rather put that money towards financial power. Assuming $500 more per year per point of IQ, each point can result in $107,304 after 40 years, assuming a 7% real return in the stock market, though at 20 years it would be $22,432. It's so easy it feels like cheating.

I'll submit that it doesn't take much of an IQ to understand compound interest, perhaps 80.
 
I had an idea that this was true, as I had stated before that "It's also likely that people making higher incomes would be influenced by emotional decisions regarding finance". With higher IQ comes more things to get nervous about and more things to compensate for. There's a reason why not many Down syndrome people have depression.
That's NOT what Wolff was saying. And, more importantly, the FACT is that the exact opposite is true.

You can't just make up stuff and declare it "true", simply because it makes sense to you, @Rickeroo.

It's been studied, and confirmed, that those lower IQ children are MORE likely to suffer from Depression (and other mental illness) as adults.

Lower childhood IQ associated with higher risk of adult mental disorders (Depression, Anxiety, etc.)

" In a new, long-term study covering more than three decades, researchers at Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH) found that children with lower IQs showed an increased risk of developing psychiatric disorders as adults, including schizophrenia, depression and generalized anxiety disorder. "

Socially, expenses tend to rise with income - the desire to consume is great as you've noted. However, I don't understand where someone would value siding their house over taking a year or two off work. Even if they don't take it off, there's a certain peace of mind that comes with affording to not work for 5 years.

So rather than consume comparatively useless things like house siding, a new car or too much house, I'd much rather put that money towards financial power. Assuming $500 more per year per point of IQ, each point can result in $107,304 after 40 years, assuming a 7% real return in the stock market, though at 20 years it would be $22,432. It's so easy it feels like cheating.
The difference in average annual income is really not that significant, for most people within the "norm" (i.e. plus or minus ONE degree of differentiation, i.e. IQ's of 80-120, which is about 75% of the public). You're talking about a difference of only about 16-20K per year in gross income, between an 80 IQ individual...and a 120 IQ individual making. And, I'm sorry, but standard of living between those two individuals is not significantly different.

You'd be shocked by the number of "high IQ" people who are homeless or living in poverty. Financial success in life is predicated upon a multitude of variables. And IQ/intelligence based upon standardized testing plays a relatively minor predictive role for the 75-80% of the public who fall into the "normal" range on the scale.

True geniuses are rare, and so are true idiots. And NEITHER group has ANY correlation with "fiscal incompetence", nor political ideology.

So you're going to have to come up with a better argument in defense of your OP, my friend.
 
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