Perma-ban hearing - discussion

[mixedmedia]

I didn't even mention all the "you liberal posts", wherupon what is then sumarily described is some demonic creature out of an H.P Lovecraft story rather than an actual liberal. The self control you show on these postings is admirable. I think thick skin is quite necessary in these cases because the finger pointing is so polemic in nature. "You liberals" acts as bait to any person who sees themself as a liberal, so in diagnosing any particular thread as to who said what to whom, IMO, this is the act that lays down the gauntlet. One either reacts or they don't, but I think it is just as much the responsibility of the people who post these statements to self-censor as it is those who need to show restraint in self-censoring byway of response. I see it much like the playground interaction, where often times the yard monitors see the kid retaliating, but don't notice the sucker punch that elicited it.

Personally, I don't respect people who talk that way. I think they are ignorant and not worth my time. I used to get all up in there, though, believe you me. I just find now that I'd rather spend my time here talking to those who don't resort to such mindless, pap-sucking inanity.

I have also found that it is possible to get people, even some of the extreme righties, to open up and talk to you decent-like if you just remain jovial and voice your opinions in a way that is not necessarily "political." More conversational and values-oriented. People are a lot less likely to attack you if it seems like your views are more of a personal nature rather than a political platform. Yet, you are still able to get your views across without the rain of "you damn dirty liberal" fire coming down on your head.....unless, of course, we are talking about Trajan.

Then some people are not here to talk nice at all. They can take it to the streets as far as I'm concerned. We have had a nice influx of new people lately who are looking for a decent place to talk (like you, for instance, Gardener) and the more of us there are, the less attention there will be for the "evildoers," lol. Sometimes situations kind of take care of themselves, ya know?

 

[Captain America]

I revert to a question I asked somewhere a while back.

Simple Scenerio:
I am participating in a discussion. Joe Blow comes in and replies, "Liberals/conservatives/this that or the other <place label here>, are all weak, lily-livered, traitor, low down, horn-toad scalawags!!! And his next post, he says, "You <place your name here> are a liberal/conservative <fill in the blank.>!

Point in case, there is no offense in calling somebody a liberal/conservative/<fill in the blank>. BUT, when the poster, in the previous breath, called all <fill in the blank> the lowest of lows...... is that not the same thing as a personal insult?

It's a Troll's loophole. And I see it played to the hilt here by certain posters. You know the one's I'm talking about, I'm sure.

Also, it would be neat if topics from the basement didn't rotate up to the "new posts" as too often I, (and I imagine we all do) click on new posts and really pay no attention as to what topic forum it was originated from as all the posts appear collectively on the same page. I can see a poster THINKING they were in the basement, or not realizing it, and making mistakes thereafter. I am not a big fan of the "basement" idea but I can live with it. I try to be the same person wherever I'm at. It's a small price to pay to participate DP i suppose. This has become my favorite forum of all.:2wave:

 

[Kelzie]

I revert to a question I asked somewhere a while back.

Simple Scenerio:
I am participating in a discussion. Joe Blow comes in and replies, "Liberals/conservatives/this that or the other <place label here>, are all weak, lily-livered, traitor, low down, horn-toad scalawags!!! And his next post, he says, "You <place your name here> are a liberal/conservative <fill in the blank.>!

Point in case, there is no offense in calling somebody a liberal/conservative/<fill in the blank>. BUT, when the poster, in the previous breath, called all <fill in the blank> the lowest of lows...... is that not the same thing as a personal insult?

It's a Troll's loophole. And I see it played to the hilt here by certain posters. You know the one's I'm talking about, I'm sure.

Also, it would be neat if topics from the basement didn't rotate up to the "new posts" as too often I, (and I imagine we all do) click on new posts and really pay no attention as to what topic forum it was originated from as all the posts appear collectively on the same page. I can see a poster THINKING they were in the basement, or not realizing it, and making mistakes thereafter. I am not a big fan of the "basement" idea but I can live with it. I try to be the same person wherever I'm at. It's a small price to pay to participate DP i suppose. This has become my favorite forum of all.:2wave:

As to your first part, we do take repeated attacks against groups into consideration. People have been asked to knock it off, and generally comply.

As to your second, I can't help you. :2wave:

 

[Captain America]

Oh, one more thing. If I originated a thread, with the honest intent of civil discourse and the swapping of opinions and ideas, and some yahoo turns it into a
flame-fest, it all to often seems, the "quick fix" is to just send it to the basement.

I imagine that can be very frustrating. Especially if I was the one who originated the thread. I may want to continue on the thread but not participate in a basement flame-fest. That's almost like someone coming and spraying graffitti on my newly painted garage door.

What's the point of having a basement when all you gotta do is trash out a thread on another forum and have it end up there anyways?

 

[mixedmedia]

Oh, one more thing. If I originated a thread, with the honest intent of civil discourse and the swapping of opinions and ideas, and some yahoo turns it into a
flame-fest, it all to often seems, the "quick fix" is to just send it to the basement.

I imagine that can be very frustrating. Especially if I was the one who originated the thread. I may want to continue on the thread but not participate in a basement flame-fest. That's almost like someone coming and spraying graffitti on my newly painted garage door.

What's the point of having a basement when all you gotta do is trash out a thread on another forum and have it end up there anyways?

Because the only other alternative would be to shut the thread down altogether?

I don't think this happens all that often with legitimately-conceived threads.

 

[Kelzie]

Oh, one more thing. If I originated a thread, with the honest intent of civil discourse and the swapping of opinions and ideas, and some yahoo turns it into a
flame-fest, it all to often seems, the "quick fix" is to just send it to the basement.

I imagine that can be very frustrating. Especially if I was the one who originated the thread. I may want to continue on the thread but not participate in a basement flame-fest. That's almost like someone coming and spraying graffitti on my newly painted garage door.

What's the point of having a basement when all you gotta do is trash out a thread on another forum and have it end up there anyways?

First off, threads created with the intention of civil discourse very rarely end up in the basement. I can only assume you are addressing the "Abortion is Murder" thread I just moved. The vast majority of threads that get moved there were created for the purpose of making some group or another mad.

Sometimes bad posts happen to good threads though. If it's just a page or so, the perps just have to be warned, and the thread can presumably continue on its civil way.

But in this case the name calling had extended back dozens of pages with multiple people involved. There would have been very little way to get the thread back on track, so it's a much better option to move it to the basement and start over with a new thread. Maybe one with a less inflamatory name.

 

[Schweddy]

Also, it would be neat if topics from the basement didn't rotate up to the "new posts" as too often I, (and I imagine we all do) click on new posts and really pay no attention as to what topic forum it was originated from as all the posts appear collectively on the same page.

Good point - will see what I can do to fix this.

 

[Schweddy]

Captain, "New Posts" will no longer disply the basement threads. :mrgreen:

 

[Captain America]

Awesome! I don't care what Kelzie says about you. I think you rock!!
:rofl

Just kidding guys.......hehehehehehehehehe......:2wave:


Now, if someone wants to go dirty their hands in the basement it will be their choice.

 

[Schweddy]

Now, if someone wants to go dirty their hands in the basement it will be their choice.

That is the way it is *supposed* to be.
Had I realized this was the case earlier....you know hinde sight 20/20 thing. :3oops:

 

[Simon W. Moon]

It will prob'ly greatly reduce the frequency of my visits there. Just won't think to go.

I suppose I'll carry on somehow.

 

[Schweddy]

It will prob'ly greatly reduce the frequency of my visits there. Just won't think to go.

I suppose I'll carry on somehow.

Well, one can not search there. Had that setup many moons ago.
I had assumed it would not pull up New Posts from there either, but was mistaken.

I never use the New Posts feature. lol

Correction: One can search within the basement, but not from outside it.

 

[Gardener]

Now, if someone wants to go dirty their hands in the basement it will be their choice.

In my case, I bring my dirty hands wherever I go.

Comes with the profession.

 

[Skip]

I like the idea; the new rule looks really good ... except for the part about no third parties being able to be heard. It seems that there may possibly be some cases where a third party can be beneficial in the moderator's decision. Should be amended for third parties to be allowed at moderator(s)' discretion.

 

[Schweddy]

I like the idea; the new rule looks really good ... except for the part about no third parties being able to be heard. It seems that there may possibly be some cases where a third party can be beneficial in the moderator's decision. Should be amended for third parties to be allowed at moderator(s)' discretion.

This is at the end of the rope.
A users has had multiple warnings before we even get to this point.

I like the idea of allowing 3rd parties to interact, but unsure how to implement without it becoming a full on witch buring trial.

 

[teacher]

Oh, one more thing. If I originated a thread, with the honest intent of civil discourse and the swapping of opinions and ideas, and some yahoo turns it into a
flame-fest, it all to often seems, the "quick fix" is to just send it to the basement.

I imagine that can be very frustrating. Especially if I was the one who originated the thread. I may want to continue on the thread but not participate in a basement flame-fest. That's almost like someone coming and spraying graffitti on my newly painted garage door.

What's the point of having a basement when all you gotta do is trash out a thread on another forum and have it end up there anyways?

I agree. In a way. How do you think I felt when I'm down in the basement for a change and all of a sudden here comes this legitiment thread and all the polite people that come with it? Can't you just delete the bad posts and keep the reasonable people upstairs where they belong? I had a couple of my posts deleted from a upstairs thread way back. Because champs told on me I think. "Where ya at now champs?" All these normal people in the basement just don't seem right. They never close the door and Billo keeps getting out.

I am not a big fan of the "basement" idea

Oh yea, you're going to Hell.

Question:
How often to people get banned?

Can only speak for myself. About twice a year.

steen.
Do something about this guy already!!!

I'm telling steen.

I can only assume you are addressing the "Abortion is Murder" thread I just moved.

Ah, so it was you. That's gonna cost you.

It will prob'ly greatly reduce the frequency of my visits there. Just won't think to go.

Lot's of people say that, yet I catch them there all the time. Of course they deny it. "Where ya at champs?"

Excellent idea. Fair, impartial, thorough. Good job, vauge.

Been a lot of this on this thread. Is this the suck up to the mods thread? I say, vague, you should be arbitrary and inconsistent in your rulings. Run amok with the gavel now and then just to keep people on their toes. This place is so fair and evenhanded, all the mods polite and fair. Yet so many are always complaining about favoritism and such. Ban them. Tell them they are banned because you don't like them and that you make the rules and you can change them so it doesn't matter what they say.

I still say the first level of banishment should be a basement thread where the banned can still go. It's the only place they can go to read or post. Everyone else gets to go there, point and laugh, throw rocks and run away.

 

[Tashah]

I like the idea; the new rule looks really good ... except for the part about no third parties being able to be heard. It seems that there may possibly be some cases where a third party can be beneficial in the moderator's decision. Should be amended for third parties to be allowed at moderator(s)' discretion.

I can discern no case where a 'third party' could deliver important input unavailable to the Moderation Team.

Any perma-ban case against a violator is fully documented by the original Moderator in Post #1 of the pertinint MPH thread. All of the evidence presented in Post #1 is examined and discussed by the other Team members.

The violator has the right to address the case in one PM delivered to the Mod Team. This PM will be inserted into the MPH thread. The violator can plead his/her case in any manner that is advantageous.

Thus, the MPH is in full posession of all evidenciary material provided by the original Mod, and it is also in full posession of a rebuttal PM by the accused.

Any third party PM(s) would fall into one of these strictures:
• The accused is using this avenue to circumvent the one PM rule.
• It is a subjective positive testimonial from a third party.
• It is a subjective negative testimonial from a third party.
• It is input that has no bearing on the current MPH case under deliberation.
• It is an attempt to influence or clog the MPH process via flooding.

Using the MPH process, the Mod Team has in its possession evidenciary materials provided by both the original Mod and the violator. The Mod Team will arrive at a decision based on these pertinint presentations. Per any third party involvement the question must be asked; How could any third party be in posession of intimate case knowledge that is unavailable to either the documenting Mod or the alleged violator?

 

[Jerry]

I'm telling steen.

Bring it. If it were a secret I wouldn't have said anything in public. This wouldn't be the first time he got some level of ban from a blog.

 

[steen]

steen.
Everywhere I go he calls people who disagree with him liars, hypocrites....."misogynistic, theocratic enslavers of women"... he issues personal attacks in virtually every post.

EVEN WHEN I AGREE WITH HIM HE ATTACKS ME!!!!
I've reported @3 of his posts just last week because I've finally had enough of his false accusations and personal attacks.

I mean, if you disagree, even passionately, fine. The occasional quip or derogatory insinuation is expected in any public setting......but with steen insults are staple. He simply can not stay on topic.

Do something about this guy already!!!

Fascinating claim. I don't accuse people of lying merely per disagreement. I accuse them when they make claims that are proven false.

 

[Jerry]

Fascinating claim. I don't accuse people of lying merely per disagreement. I accuse them when they make claims that are proven false.

The posts of yours which I reported are where you go beyond mere accusations of lying and move into the realm of personal attacks.

Even when I am simply in error you accuse me of deliberate misrepresentation. Because I observe the unborn's inherent, self evident humanity and you do not you accuse me of attempting to enslave women, being a woman hater, a hypocrite, a supporter of an american theocracy, etc. You strawman and misrepresent your opposition's arguments.

I have not ever don any of these things to you.

You do not belong at D.P.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Can you guys take you beef somewhere else?

 

[Jerry]

Can you guys take you beef somewhere else?

Re-name this thread "somewhere ells" then.
THIS IS THE PLACE FOR THIS!!!!!
I am advocating for steen's perma-ban. It is wholly appropriate.
Your casual dismissal of these problems will only make them worse.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re-name this thread "somewhere ells" then.
THIS IS THE PLACE FOR THIS!!!!!
I am advocating for steen's perma-ban. It is wholly appropriate.
Your casual dismissal of these problems will only make them worse.

Actually this is not the thread where you can campaign to have some oen removed from the board. If it had been then I would not have asked you two to take your over active feelings for one another somewhere else.

If you wish to start such a campaign, please do so in The Basement.

Moderator's Warning:

The Two of You, Knock it off. If you guys can't keep your cool by yourselves here in this thread, we'll help you.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Depends on who you count as people. Do spammers count? If so, then fairly regularly. If we only count folks who attempt to use the forum for it's intended purpose, then not so often.

There're a few score usernames that have been banned. Several of those are folks w/ more than one username (some of them w/ 3 or more names).
Most of the list are folks you've prob'ly never heard of because they were caught spamming quickly. If I come in and find five identical messages in different forums all pointing to your website and these are your only posts to DP, you'll get a summary ban and an email explaining our policy on advertising as well as an opportunity to contact vauge to set up an ad account.


Here's a small sampling of banning reasons provided in account notes:

spamming
Created another user
spamming
spamming
Rule #12. Multiple accounts - Multiple accounts of the same user will not be tolerated and you will be banned.**
spamming
Posting personal information on another board member.
Spamspamspam
double user
sock puppet
multiple accounts
already banned...trying to come back in
Troll and sock
Duplicate usernames, email to be reinstated
Duplicate usernames, email to be reinstated

​

There're less than a dozen folks who have temporary suspensions at this moment

What is sock puppet?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

What is sock puppet?

An additional username for the same person.