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Pentagon demands return of cash bonuses paid to California soldiers for going to war

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Patrickt said:
"[FONT="]The Pentagon is seeking to recover decade-old reenlistment bonuses paid to thousands of California Army National Guard soldiers to go fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Los Angeles Times reported Saturday.[/FONT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arimo][CENTER][FONT=inherit][/FONT][/CENTER]
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[FONT="]The paper reported that nearly 10,000 soldiers, many of whom risked their lives during multiple combat tours, have been ordered to repay the cash bonuses after audits revealed widespread overpayments by California Guard officials under pressure to meet enlistment targets at the height of the wars 10 years ago."

But soldiers say the military is reneging on old agreements and imposing severe financial hardship on those whose only mistake was to accept the bonuses, which amounted to $15,000 or more.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]The Army asked wounded Iraq veteran and former Army captain Christopher Van Meter, 42, to repay a $25,000 reenlistment bonus it said he was ineligible to receive. He was also asked to repay $21,000 in student loan repayments."

Pentagon recovers cash bonuses paid to California soldiers for going to war a decade ago | Fox News

I wonder who will have to pay back the billions Sen. Clinton lost?[/FONT]
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If you want to know the truth about Barack Obama, here you go. The man could fix this with a stroke of the pen. Stop fooling yourself about his character. He is as low as a human being can go. Well, my apologies only one human being could go lower. Hillary Clinton. If you vote against her for no other reason than this. You should. Millions lost when she was SOS and millions earned as the SOS. Doesnt anyone have a conscious?
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

EvaPeron said:
If you want to know the truth about Barack Obama, here you go. The man could fix this with a stroke of the pen. Stop fooling yourself about his character. He is as low as a human being can go.
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Oh my god, the delusion is incredible.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Patrickt said:
Why should the soliders fighting the central government's war pay for the screwup of California, the mini-me for the central government?

Of course, I din't expect the federal government or the California government to take care of soldiers like they take care of drunks, junkies, and deadbeats. We certainly couldn't expect that.
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I don't see your question. If CA is incapable of paying after a court decision, you might go for the deep pockets. But CA is not insolvent.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Fishking said:
Why are you bringing Bush up? This is the National Guard so it's on the state of California. This isn't a Bush thing and it isn't a Regular Army thing.
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this would take knowing what you are talking about.

This is on the state of CA and the governing body of the national guard.
they should be paying back the bonus money they were the ones that gave it out when
it should have been.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

MaggieD said:
I understand the gvmt has a right to correct mistakes. The question is how long do we have?

If someone should know they are not entitled to a payment, I'd arbitrarily pick three years as a claw back timeframe. If someone would have no IDEA they weren't entitled, then gvmt personnel should be fired for those kinds of atrocious mistakes, and the gvmt shouldn't be able to claw back the money. That's just me.
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Right but the problem is that all the people involved were told they were eligible if they would just sign back up.
the recruits lied to the people about it. I could see if it they received it by lying or something like that, but these were promises
that the recruiters told people to get them to reenlist.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

ludin said:
Right but the problem is that all the people involved were told they were eligible if they would just sign back up.
the recruits lied to the people about it. I could see if it they received it by lying or something like that, but these were promises
that the recruiters told people to get them to reenlist.
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I see. Well, not a single one of those people should have to pay the money back. Of course, the recruiters could have been unclear about when the bonus should be paid. One would have to prove fraud one by one, so no one's going to be held accountable. But the soldiers who got the money in the mail? They're the least culpable of all.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

MaggieD said:
I see. Well, not a single one of those people should have to pay the money back. Of course, the recruiters could have been unclear about when the bonus should be paid. One would have to prove fraud one by one, so no one's going to be held accountable. But the soldiers who got the money in the mail? They're the least culpable of all.
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I agree.

If someone goes well you will get a 3,500 sign up bonus and if you extend 2 years more than you will get GI bill benefits etc ...
and you weren't supposed to but they don't tell you that I don't see how you are accountable for that.

the military should be going after the CA national guard not the soldiers who didn't know better.

there are a lot of congressmen pushing back on this big time. hopefully they will get the military to drop it.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

I'm tired of army people always getting free stuff.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

The way I see this is that the recruiter is the government's agent, and the authority in the transaction.
The responsibility of how large the reenlistment bonus should or should not be, is not with the recruit,
but rather with the recruiter. If the recruiter lies to the recruit about how much he as the
government agent is willing to pay as a reenlistment bonus, the fraud is on the part of the
governments agent, who has all of the authority.
Look at the transaction from a different perspective.
A person goes into a retail store, and see a TV for sale for a price that seems really low.
The authority to place the price on the TV is the store's not the buyer.
If the person buys the TV, even if it were incorrectly marked, once the transaction is complete,
the store cannot try to renegotiate the price after the transaction.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Is this equivalent to when you ask an ATM to issue you $40 cash but something goes wrong and gives you $2000?
I mean, the bank IS going to get it's money back from you no matter what the circumstance is.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

madman said:
Is this equivalent to when you ask an ATM to issue you $40 cash but something goes wrong and gives you $2000?
I mean, the bank IS going to get it's money back from you no matter what the circumstance is.
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Not quite, depending on information that we don't know.

If there was a signed contract, then it is more like your job giving you an annual bonus, one you sign paper acknowledging that you get, as well as them signing paperwork that you are getting it. Then years after you got the bonus, them coming back and saying you weren't eligible for the bonus and they want all of it paid back.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

madman said:
Is this equivalent to when you ask an ATM to issue you $40 cash but something goes wrong and gives you $2000?
I mean, the bank IS going to get it's money back from you no matter what the circumstance is.
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The bank isn't going to charge you interest in that scenario. Cgarging these veterans interest on this money is no less than tyranny.

If the bonuses were authorized by the chain of command, then the chain of command should pay back the money.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Van Basten said:
Oh my god, the delusion is incredible.
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If you think it is delusion that he could use his Executive Power to immediately stop this injustice, then you and I live in a different reality.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

apdst said:
The bank isn't going to charge you interest in that scenario. Cgarging these veterans interest on this money is no less than tyranny.

If the bonuses were authorized by the chain of command, then the chain of command should pay back the money.
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This isnt about interest, this is about getting back money that was lost in error.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

madman said:
This isnt about interest, this is about getting back money that was lost in error.
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Fine, but there's no need to charge them interest on the money. That's just greed. The vets that got the bonus payments aren't the ones at fault, here. Therefore, they shouldn't be punished.

This is nothing compared to the swindling that's done by government employees and those employees haven't suffered a single concequence over it.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

madman said:
This isnt about interest, this is about getting back money that was lost in error.
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Another thing. These bonus payments were taxed. Are these folks going to get a tax credit? Or, only pay the amount they received after taxes?
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

apdst said:
Another thing. These bonus payments were taxed. Are these folks going to get a tax credit? Or, only pay the amount they received after taxes?
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yes, they should get a credit if they have to pay them back
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

I thought this was just Californians?
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Patrickt said:
"[FONT="]The Pentagon is seeking to recover decade-old reenlistment bonuses paid to thousands of California Army National Guard soldiers to go fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Los Angeles Times reported Saturday.[/FONT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arimo][CENTER][FONT=inherit][/FONT][/CENTER]
[/FONT][/COLOR]
[FONT="]The paper reported that nearly 10,000 soldiers, many of whom risked their lives during multiple combat tours, have been ordered to repay the cash bonuses after audits revealed widespread overpayments by California Guard officials under pressure to meet enlistment targets at the height of the wars 10 years ago."

But soldiers say the military is reneging on old agreements and imposing severe financial hardship on those whose only mistake was to accept the bonuses, which amounted to $15,000 or more.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]The Army asked wounded Iraq veteran and former Army captain Christopher Van Meter, 42, to repay a $25,000 reenlistment bonus it said he was ineligible to receive. He was also asked to repay $21,000 in student loan repayments."

Pentagon recovers cash bonuses paid to California soldiers for going to war a decade ago | Fox News

I wonder who will have to pay back the billions Sen. Clinton lost?[/FONT]
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That sucks.

OTOH, is it something that the soldier would have known at the time that it was a mistake? If so, he had a duty to report it and return it. If he accepted it in good faith, not knowing it was a mistake, I'd say he gets to keep it. Statute of limitations sort of thing.

But who pays back the trillions caused by Bush's unnecessary war in Iraq?
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

JumpinJack said:
That sucks.

OTOH, is it something that the soldier would have known at the time that it was a mistake? If so, he had a duty to report it and return it. If he accepted it in good faith, not knowing it was a mistake, I'd say he gets to keep it. Statute of limitations sort of thing.

But who pays back the trillions caused by Bush's unnecessary war in Iraq?
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The bonuses were what the recruiters said they should be so how would the soldiers know there was a problem. When didn't the generals and the auditors know there was a problem at the time. One should never underestimate the incompetence of the government.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Is anyone actually surprised that the government is screwing over soldiers? I mean, this is the same gov. in which the VA is a complete and utter mess and yet nothing is done.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Patrickt said:
The bonuses were what the recruiters said they should be so how would the soldiers know there was a problem. When didn't the generals and the auditors know there was a problem at the time. One should never underestimate the incompetence of the government.
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The people in the chain of command who authorized the bonuses should be the ones to pay the money back.
 
Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

This seems to me to be nothing but a case of fraud perpetrated by some recruiters and combined with no way for the military to account for the funds in a timely manner.
The individual solider did absolutely nothing wrong. She or he completed their commitment to contract made with the federal government. To ask for the repayment after a 10 year period when
there was fraud committed by agents of the government is just plain wrong. The repayment needs to be waved and this needs to be put to bed today!


From the story:
"Investigations have determined that lack of oversight allowed for widespread fraud and mismanagement by California Guard officials under pressure to meet enlistment targets."

"In 2010, after reports surfaced of improper payments, a federal investigation found that thousands of bonuses and student loan payments were given to California Guard soldiers who did not qualify for them, or were approved despite paperwork errors."

"Army Master Sgt. Toni Jaffe, the California Guard’s incentive manager, pleaded guilty in 2011 to filing false claims of $15.2 million and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison. Three officers also pleaded guilty to fraud and were put on probation after paying restitution."
 
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