Penn Jillette: Time for atheists to stand up and be counted

[Eric7216]

ther are even atheist religions but we are not a unified group in any way except for not believing in gods

I make that distinction also. I am not saying all atheists are religious but it seems to me (and many other sociologists) that when one joins an organization like American Atheist, gets newsletters from them, mingles socially with other atheists (because they are also atheists), and proselytizes on the righteousness of atheism they are certainly acting like a religion.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

I guess that settles it.
No reason to actually discuss how a group that does so much that "religions" do yet is not a religion. For me, if it looks like a rose and smells like a rose it is a rose. And many sociologists agree.

I'll keep it simple for you: Atheism does not attempt to explain anything. It is not a comprehensive worldview. It is a response to claims that gods exist. Atheism rejects those claims. There is no other aspect to atheism.

It simply isn't a religion.

 

[Eric7216]

I'll keep it simple for you: Atheism does not attempt to explain anything. It is not a comprehensive worldview. It is a response to claims that gods exist. Atheism rejects those claims. There is no other aspect to atheism.

It simply isn't a religion.

American Atheists holds an annual National Convention at locations throughout the United States. Our national conventions bring together members of the atheist community from all over the nation and world to celebrate reason, rationality, and atheism.

National Convention | American Atheists

Now in its 51st year, American Atheists is dedicated to working for the civil rights of atheists, promoting separation of state and church, and providing information about atheism. Over the last fifty years, American Atheists has:
•Fought fervently to defend the separation of religion from government
•Appeared in all forms of media to defend our positions and criticisms of religion and mythology
•Held atheist conventions and gatherings throughout the United States, including "Atheist Pride" marches in state capitals
•Demonstrated and picketed throughout the country on behalf of atheist rights and state/church separation
•Published hundreds of books about atheism, criticism of religion, and state/church separation
•Published newsletters, magazines, and member alerts
•Built a robust and diverse community of local affiliates, partners, and activists
•Fostered a growing network of representatives throughout the nation who monitor important First Amendment issues and work on behalf of the organization in their areas
•Grown a network of volunteers who perform a variety of important tasks in their community, from placing American Atheist books in libraries to writing letters and publicizing the atheist perspective
•Preserved atheist literature and history in the nation's largest archive of its kind. The library's holdings span over three hundred years of atheist thought.
•Provided speakers for colleges, universities, clubs, and the news media
•Granted college scholarships to young atheist activists

About | American Atheists

Well, if you say so. I personally would hope that believing in "reason and rationality" does represent a "comprehensive world view" and does "attempt to explain things". That is a religion that I could accept. But I don't like to proselytize atheism but will simply proselytize reason and rationality.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

National Convention | American Atheists

About | American Atheists

Well, if you say so. I personally would hope that believing in "reason and rationality" does represent a "comprehensive world view" and does "attempt to explain things". That is a religion that I could accept. But I don't like to proselytize atheism but will simply proselytize reason and rationality.

No, not because I say so. Because reality says so.

 

[dimensionallava]

is math a religion?

 

[Frank Apisa]

I'll keep it simple for you: Atheism does not attempt to explain anything. It is not a comprehensive worldview. It is a response to claims that gods exist. Atheism rejects those claims. There is no other aspect to atheism.

It simply isn't a religion.

I agree it is not a religion...not even close.

But if you think there is no other aspect to atheism than rejecting claims that gods exist...you are MISTAKEN.

Many atheists actively assert that NO GODS EXIST...which is a hell of a lot more than just rejecting anything.

 

[RogueWarrior]

I agree it is not a religion...not even close.

But if you think there is no other aspect to atheism than rejecting claims that gods exist...you are MISTAKEN.

Many atheists actively assert that NO GODS EXIST...which is a hell of a lot more than just rejecting anything.

Frank, you are making the same mistake that Eric is making and you making another classic mistake.

First: Atheism versus atheists. Your first sentence is about atheism and the second is about atheists which are two similar but distinct subjects.
What individual atheists do or say has no bearing on atheism. The only thing anyone can know about an atheist is their response to the various god claims: "I don't believe you."

do not conflate the expressions NO GODS EXIST and GODS CAN'T EXIST.
Until something is proven to exist, it doesn't exist. Prove something exists without empirical, falsifiable data!....You won't be able to BUT not being able to, does not mean it can't exist.

Atheists will agree the gods don't exist, and not because gods have been proven not exist but because the evidence for said gods is insufficient to warrant belief.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Frank, you are making the same mistake that Eric is making and you making another classic mistake.

I doubt that...but I am willing to listen to...and consider...what you have to say, Rogue.

First: Atheism versus atheists. Your first sentence is about atheism and the second is about atheists which are two similar but distinct subjects.
What individual atheists do or say has no bearing on atheism. The only thing anyone can know about an atheist is their response to the various god claims: "I don't believe you."

Nonsense.

If an atheist says to me, "I believe there are no gods"...I can know he has a "belief"...and that the "belief" is that no gods exist.

If an atheist says to me, "There are no gods"...I can know he/she is willing to make assertions from a position of blindly guessing about what is or is not in the REALITY of existence.

do not conflate the expressions NO GODS EXIST and GODS CAN'T EXIST.

I never do. The only real similarity of thought I see in them...is that both are merely blind guesses about the true nature of REALITY.

Until something is proven to exist, it doesn't exist.

C'mon...get real.

Prove something exists without empirical, falsifiable data!....You won't be able to BUT not being able to, does not mean it can't exist.

Okay. So what?

Your self-serving, gratuitous assertion that until something is proven to exist, it doesn't exist is an absurdity...and obviates whatever you were trying to show with this further statement.

Atheists will agree the gods don't exist, and not because gods have been proven not exist but because the evidence for said gods is insufficient to warrant belief.

And then pretend that is a logical conclusion...which it obviously isn't.