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Pence Booed/Lectured; Trump Demands Apology! Valid Free Expression?

Pence Booed/Lectured; Trump Demands Apology! Valid Free Expression?


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Paperview

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Who made you the judge of what is and is not "valid free expression"?

LOL!




I'd laugh if I wasn't busy vomiting. You'll spend several years throwing every vile insult you can think of at Obama, going as far as to accuse him of lying about his religion and place of birth. You'll vote into office a guy whose insults everyone and everything, all of the time. Then you turn around and whine about how his VP was so horribly damaged by this:

“We, sir — we — are the diverse America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us,” he said. He added that he hoped “this show has inspired you to uphold our American values and to work on behalf of all of us. All of us.”



That sedate statement has conservatives self-righteously proclaiming the need for respect?

Disgusting.
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
 

year2late

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Performance of Chicago 'Hamilton' disrupted - Chicago Tribune

Actions beget actions. Cant say I'm surprised.

Whats a little free speech? Whats a little minor inconvenience in the name of protesting. Sure...it was annoying. Yes...it ruined the performance for many. But its not like the guy walked onto a highway and blocked traffic.

Yup. By the way....

If I am not mistaken, the words were spoken during curtain call, so if the actual performance was ruined, they have ESP.;)
 

Master PO

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They had the right to express their views, but it was in appropriate for the occasion.

i am going to disagree with you here, and i am going to disagree as i have with others over the word "right".

to have a right means to have the ability to do without being hindered.

no one has an exercisable right when the theater is not their property.

while someone may say something crude /rude to other people, its not a right, because the property owner can have you removed for bothering other customers.

you are not free to express yourself, because you can have that expression stopped by the law.
 

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i am going to disagree with you here, and i am going to disagree as i have with others over the word "right".

to have a right means to have the ability to do without being hindered.

no one has an exercisable right when theater is not their property.

while someone may say something crude /rude to other people, its not a right, because the property owner can have you removed for bothering other customers.

you are not free to express yourself, because you can have that expression stopped by the law.

The theater didn't do anything about it.
 

Master PO

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The theater didn't do anything about it.

thats true, but i am only pointing out where people keep claiming they had a right.

being on property people don't own [theater] does not allow a right of free of expression towards other people, because the property owner can tell people to leave or call the law and use force.

so no right exist.
 
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CanadaJohn

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Recently several articles were posted regarding attendance at a showing of "Hamilton" by VP-Elect Michael Pence, where Mr. Pence was booed by some members of the audience, and then addressed at the end of the play by a representative of the cast from the stage about their concerns. Mr. Pence waited politely for the presentation to complete, then left.

Trump asks 'Hamilton' cast who 'harassed' Mike Pence to apologize Trump asks 'Hamilton' cast who 'harassed' Mike Pence to apologize

Hamilton cast address Mike Pence after he is booed by audience | Daily Mail Online Hamilton cast address Mike Pence after he is booed by audience.

Some members indicate they were offended by this situation, and/or feel an apology is necessary. Others ague justified action, in response to the current social situation.

IMO the actions of members of the audience were rude, crude, and socially unacceptable; while the action of the cast was opportunistically self-serving...but both actions were well-within the bounds of acceptable Freedom of Expression.

While it is true, as some argue, that a person goes to a play to relax from the worries of the day, hoping to immerse themselves in the fantasy of the entertainment; public figures are seldom granted such luxury. This is both advantage and a bane of fame.

Public figures are seldom accessible, and many people will take advantage of any opportunity to adore or revile, or as in this example...plead their case because a chance is there to be heard.

That is exactly what free expression is, seeking a chance to be heard whether the listener's agree with the message or not.

So I vote YES, it is a valid example of Free Expression. What say you?

Technically, it may be free speech, but clearly it wasn't because everyone there, including Pence, paid to be there. Had the paying audience known ahead of time such a misuse of their attendance was likely or scheduled, those who wished could have chosen not to waste their money and spent it elsewhere.

It's similar to the situation with Kanye West concerts. Even if I liked his music, I'd never pay a dime to go see him because he usually fills part of his show with some idiotic political or social nonsense.

Perhaps one day, but I won't count on it, people in the entertainment business will come to the realization that most of us don't give a flying **** what they think about social and political issues and they're damn lucky that they've got an audience willing to buy what they're selling and they shouldn't jeopardize that relationship.
 

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...

Perhaps one day, but I won't count on it, people in the entertainment business will come to the realization that most of us don't give a flying **** what they think about social and political issues and they're damn lucky that they've got an audience willing to buy what they're selling and they shouldn't jeopardize that relationship.

As a wise actor said: “If people are coming to see Hamilton to leave their politics behind, you came to the wrong show!”
 

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As a wise actor said: “If people are coming to see Hamilton to leave their politics behind, you came to the wrong show!”

Wrong. People go to the theatre to be entertained and to get away from daily life, politics and the crap they hear about on a regular basis.
 

jet57

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Recently several articles were posted regarding attendance at a showing of "Hamilton" by VP-Elect Michael Pence, where Mr. Pence was booed by some members of the audience, and then addressed at the end of the play by a representative of the cast from the stage about their concerns. Mr. Pence waited politely for the presentation to complete, then left.

Trump asks 'Hamilton' cast who 'harassed' Mike Pence to apologize Trump asks 'Hamilton' cast who 'harassed' Mike Pence to apologize

Hamilton cast address Mike Pence after he is booed by audience | Daily Mail Online Hamilton cast address Mike Pence after he is booed by audience.

Some members indicate they were offended by this situation, and/or feel an apology is necessary. Others ague justified action, in response to the current social situation.

IMO the actions of members of the audience were rude, crude, and socially unacceptable; while the action of the cast was opportunistically self-serving...but both actions were well-within the bounds of acceptable Freedom of Expression.

While it is true, as some argue, that a person goes to a play to relax from the worries of the day, hoping to immerse themselves in the fantasy of the entertainment; public figures are seldom granted such luxury. This is both advantage and a bane of fame.

Public figures are seldom accessible, and many people will take advantage of any opportunity to adore or revile, or as in this example...plead their case because a chance is there to be heard.

That is exactly what free expression is, seeking a chance to be heard whether the listener's agree with the message or not.

So I vote YES, it is a valid example of Free Expression. What say you?

Well said.
 

American

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thats true, but i am only pointing out where people keep claiming they had a right.

being on property people don't own [theater] does not allow a right of free of expression towards other people, because the property owner can tell people to leave or call the law and use force.

so no right exist.
We may have to agree to disagree on this because I'm not certain about what you're saying. :peace
 

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Wrong. People go to the theatre to be entertained and to get away from daily life, politics and the crap they hear about on a regular basis.

Not wrong. To repeat: “If people are coming to see Hamilton to leave their politics behind, you came to the wrong show!”

The play itself is about politics, social and civil issues and diversity - and at the end of every show the actors come out on stage and talk about issues that matter to them. Which includes politics, getting people out to vote, discussing charities and concerns meaningful to the cast and the production crew.

If you want a safe space, stay home.
 

Master PO

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We may have to agree to disagree on this because I'm not certain about what you're saying. :peace

i am saying..... when you are on property like this theater you do not have exercisable rights, because the property owner can stop what you are doing at any time the property owner chooses.

since what you want to exercise can be stopped by the property owner, no right exist.
 

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i am saying..... when you are on property like this theater you do not have exercisable rights, because the property owner can stop what you are doing at any time the property owner chooses.

since what you want to exercise can be stopped by the property owner, no right exist.

I get it, I'm just not certain that you are correct.
 

CanadaJohn

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Not wrong. To repeat: “If people are coming to see Hamilton to leave their politics behind, you came to the wrong show!”

The play itself is about politics, social and civil issues and diversity - and at the end of every show the actors come out on stage and talk about issues that matter to them. Which includes politics, getting people out to vote, discussing charities and concerns meaningful to the cast and the production crew.

If you want a safe space, stay home.

Your condescension is noted - without it, liberals have virtually nothing.

Perhaps you go to the theatre to have your political emotions validated - I and many others don't.
 

Master PO

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I get it, I'm just not certain that you are correct.

if you would have a right to free expression in the theater towards other people, then you would also have a right to

pack a firearm

protest

hold prayer

and we know people dont have a right to do those things.
 

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Your condescension is noted - without it, liberals have virtually nothing.

Perhaps you go to the theatre to have your political emotions validated - I and many others don't.

Here's some safe space advice: don't go see Hamilton.

You weren't going to see it anyways? Oh well.
 

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if you would have a right to free expression in the theater towards other people, then you would also have a right to

pack a firearm

protest

hold prayer

and we know people dont have a right to do those things.

The right had implied consent when the theater did nothing.
 

Ikari

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Recently several articles were posted regarding attendance at a showing of "Hamilton" by VP-Elect Michael Pence, where Mr. Pence was booed by some members of the audience, and then addressed at the end of the play by a representative of the cast from the stage about their concerns. Mr. Pence waited politely for the presentation to complete, then left.

Trump asks 'Hamilton' cast who 'harassed' Mike Pence to apologize Trump asks 'Hamilton' cast who 'harassed' Mike Pence to apologize

Hamilton cast address Mike Pence after he is booed by audience | Daily Mail Online Hamilton cast address Mike Pence after he is booed by audience.

Some members indicate they were offended by this situation, and/or feel an apology is necessary. Others ague justified action, in response to the current social situation.

IMO the actions of members of the audience were rude, crude, and socially unacceptable; while the action of the cast was opportunistically self-serving...but both actions were well-within the bounds of acceptable Freedom of Expression.

While it is true, as some argue, that a person goes to a play to relax from the worries of the day, hoping to immerse themselves in the fantasy of the entertainment; public figures are seldom granted such luxury. This is both advantage and a bane of fame.

Public figures are seldom accessible, and many people will take advantage of any opportunity to adore or revile, or as in this example...plead their case because a chance is there to be heard.

That is exactly what free expression is, seeking a chance to be heard whether the listener's agree with the message or not.

So I vote YES, it is a valid example of Free Expression. What say you?

People are free to say as they want. It was opportunistic of the cast, but whatever.

I will say this, I am no Pence fan, but he handled the situation FAR better than Trump.
 

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Freedom of Speech is important. And although I agree with what has been said I am doubtful if this was the right place and time to do so. But hey, you do not often get a chance to say something like this, so maybe they just used the opportunity when it arose. Very hypocritical from Trump to 'demand' an apology. With his track record he words do not hold much meaning in this field...

Joey
 

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Even Pence doesn't think the actors owe him an apology. Jesus Christ Trump supporters, and Trump himself, are GIGANTIC BABIES
 

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So I search for hamilton and I can't believe how many people are crying about this, so funny. Ill post the same thing in all threads.

"I haven't been on here for a little while and im not sure who all has seen or said what or how people feel about it now after the facts have come out but any false outrage "about the speech at the end" is pretty dishonest and retarded, it wont be taken seriously and is worthy of nothing but laughter and mocking LOL"
 

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that would be true, it if was directed at the performance, but a person paying money to go see a performance does have a right, [right of property] to see that performance without being harassed.

while others pay money to see the performance, they didn't pay to get the right to harass other people

How much does harassment cost? What about sexual harassment? is that more? Because if it is that's ridiculous. It should obviously be less, like 70% of the cost to harass a man. Oh, and it goes without saying that there's not enough money in the world to harass a god emperor or his minion.
 

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They have a right to their free speech, as do the rest of us. I'll just vote with my pocketbook, and implore my friends in London and Toronto to spread the word to not see the show. Let the liberals pay out of the whazoo for it.
 
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