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Pence Booed/Lectured; Trump Demands Apology! Valid Free Expression?

Pence Booed/Lectured; Trump Demands Apology! Valid Free Expression?


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Captain Adverse

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Recently several articles were posted regarding attendance at a showing of "Hamilton" by VP-Elect Michael Pence, where Mr. Pence was booed by some members of the audience, and then addressed at the end of the play by a representative of the cast from the stage about their concerns. Mr. Pence waited politely for the presentation to complete, then left.

Trump asks 'Hamilton' cast who 'harassed' Mike Pence to apologize Trump asks 'Hamilton' cast who 'harassed' Mike Pence to apologize

Hamilton cast address Mike Pence after he is booed by audience | Daily Mail Online Hamilton cast address Mike Pence after he is booed by audience.

Some members indicate they were offended by this situation, and/or feel an apology is necessary. Others ague justified action, in response to the current social situation.

IMO the actions of members of the audience were rude, crude, and socially unacceptable; while the action of the cast was opportunistically self-serving...but both actions were well-within the bounds of acceptable Freedom of Expression.

While it is true, as some argue, that a person goes to a play to relax from the worries of the day, hoping to immerse themselves in the fantasy of the entertainment; public figures are seldom granted such luxury. This is both advantage and a bane of fame.

Public figures are seldom accessible, and many people will take advantage of any opportunity to adore or revile, or as in this example...plead their case because a chance is there to be heard.

That is exactly what free expression is, seeking a chance to be heard whether the listener's agree with the message or not.

So I vote YES, it is a valid example of Free Expression. What say you?
 
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Nilly

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Transcript of the the 'lecture', for context.

Thank you so much for joining us tonight. You know, we had a guest in the audience this evening. And Vice president-elect Pence, I see you're walking out but I hope you will hear us just a few more moments. There's nothing to boo here ladies and gentlemen. There's nothing to boo here, we're all here sharing a story of love.

We have a message for you, sir. We hope that you will hear us out. And I encourage everybody to pull out your phones and tweet and post because this message needs to be spread far and wide, okay?

Vice president-elect Pence we welcome you and we truly thank you for joining us here at Hamilton: An American Musical — we really do. We, sir, we are the diverse America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights, sir. But we truly hope that this show has inspired you to uphold our American values and to work on behalf of all of us. All of us.

Again, we truly thank you for sharing this show. This wonderful American story told by a diverse group of men [and] women of different colors, creeds, and orientations.

Here is the link to the video of the 'lecture'

https://twitter.com/HamiltonMusical/status/799828567941120000
 
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Cardinal

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Transcript of the the 'lecture', for context.

Truly horrifying, that. If Trump and Pence must be subjected to this barbarity then he would be wise to govern for the next four years from a bunker buried three miles below the surface of the earth.
 

Master PO

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Recently several articles were posted regarding attendance at a showing of "Hamilton" by VP-Elect Michael Pence, where Mr. Pence was booed by some members of the audience, and then addressed at the end of the play by a representative of the cast from the stage about their concerns. Mr. Pence waited politely for the presentation to complete, then left.

Trump asks 'Hamilton' cast who 'harassed' Mike Pence to apologize Trump asks 'Hamilton' cast who 'harassed' Mike Pence to apologize

Hamilton cast address Mike Pence after he is booed by audience | Daily Mail Online Hamilton cast address Mike Pence after he is booed by audience.

Some members indicate they were offended by this situation, and/or feel an apology is necessary. Others ague justified action, in response to the current social situation.

IMO the actions of members of the audience were rude, crude, and socially unacceptable; while the action of the cast was opportunistically self-serving...but both actions were well-within the bounds of acceptable Freedom of Expression.

While it is true, as some argue, that a person goes to a play to relax from the worries of the day, hoping to immerse themselves in the fantasy of the entertainment; public figures are seldom granted such luxury. This is both advantage and a bane of fame.

Public figures are seldom accessible, and many people will take advantage of any opportunity to adore or revile, and in this example...plead their case because a chance is there to be heard. That is exactly what free expression is, seeking a chance to be heard whether the listener's agree with the message or not.

So I vote YES, it is a valid example of Free expression. What say you?


when people pay money to see a show, then you have paid for the performance of that show this does not entitle anyone to exercise rights on property they do not own to harass other people.
 

Captain Adverse

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when people pay money to see a show, then you have paid for the performance of that show this does not entitle anyone to exercise rights on property they do not own to harass other people.

Ahhh, but boos and applause are a normal part of this environment. Any audience is well-within their rights to express these sentiments in such an arena...even towards other members of the audience.

Moreover, the play was done and during a live performance it is neither inappropriate, nor unheard of for cast to address the audience or members thereof during or at the conclusion of a play.
 

JC Callender

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They had the right to speak their minds. With that said, it was petty, arrogant, and condescending and will ultimately hurt the ticket sales of "Hamilton" more than it will hurt Pence, who probably assumed that he would at least get a few boos before attending.
 

Cardinal

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when people pay money to see a show, then you have paid for the performance of that show this does not entitle anyone to exercise rights on property they do not own to harass other people.

Oh, do tell. Please tell us what the law has to say about the expression of free speech with regards to paid performers expressing their opinions.
 

Cardinal

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They had the right to speak their minds. With that said, it was petty, arrogant, and condescending and will ultimately hurt the ticket sales of "Hamilton" more than it will hurt Pence, who probably assumed that he would at least get a few boos before attending.

Yes, nobody has the right to express their opinions to the God Emperor's apprentice.
 

Master PO

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Ahhh, but boos and applause are a normal part of this environment. Any audience is well-within their rights to express these sentiments in such an arena...even towards other members of the audience.

Moreover, the play was done and it is neither inappropriate, nor unheard of for cast to address the audience or members thereof during or at the conclusion of a play.

that would be true, it if was directed at the performance, but a person paying money to go see a performance does have a right, [right of property] to see that performance without being harassed.

while others pay money to see the performance, they didn't pay to get the right to harass other people
 

Master PO

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Oh, do tell. Please tell us what the law has to say about the expression of free speech with regards to paid performers expressing their opinions.

when i pay for something via my money, i have made a purchase of a service.

i have a right to that service without be subjected to harassment, when you are on property you don't own, you don't have a right to free speech.
 

Cardinal

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that would be true, it if was directed at the performance, but a person paying money to go see a performance does have a right, [right of property] to see that performance without being harassed.

while others pay money to see the performance, they didn't pay to get the right to harass other people

Please define these "rights" as they pertain to the law, the constitution or anything at all beyond the delicate feelings of the God Emperor and his supporters.
 

digsbe

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I think they have the right to do so... but if Pence paid for a ticket and they turned a service he paid for into a singling out lecture that's unprofessional, and in my opinion they need to refund his money.
 

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when i pay for something via my money, i have made a purchase of a service.

i have a right to that service without be subjected to harassment, when you are on property you don't own, you don't have a right to free speech.

Insofar as I can tell, you either haven't actually watched the video or "harassment" means having the filthy masses addressing the God Emperor's right hand man directly without having first requested a royal audience. .
 

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Didn't I just say they have the right? :confused:

Pardon me. It's arrogant and condescending for the peasants to address the God Emperor's right hand man directly without having requested a royal audience first.
 

Nilly

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that would be true, it if was directed at the performance, but a person paying money to go see a performance does have a right, [right of property] to see that performance without being harassed.

while others pay money to see the performance, they didn't pay to get the right to harass other people

Price of fame.

At the end of the day, celebrities, politicians, athletes anyone in the public eye is going to face some kind of harassment when in public places.

Thing is, in the vast majority of cases, the celebrities/politicians/athletes chose to be in the public eye and ultimately face that harassment. The people of this country who are LGBTQ did not choose to be that way but are harassed for it.
 

Grand Mal

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Recently several articles were posted regarding attendance at a showing of "Hamilton" by VP-Elect Michael Pence, where Mr. Pence was booed by some members of the audience, and then addressed at the end of the play by a representative of the cast from the stage about their concerns. Mr. Pence waited politely for the presentation to complete, then left.

Trump asks 'Hamilton' cast who 'harassed' Mike Pence to apologize Trump asks 'Hamilton' cast who 'harassed' Mike Pence to apologize

Hamilton cast address Mike Pence after he is booed by audience | Daily Mail Online Hamilton cast address Mike Pence after he is booed by audience.

Some members indicate they were offended by this situation, and/or feel an apology is necessary. Others ague justified action, in response to the current social situation.

IMO the actions of members of the audience were rude, crude, and socially unacceptable; while the action of the cast was opportunistically self-serving...but both actions were well-within the bounds of acceptable Freedom of Expression.

While it is true, as some argue, that a person goes to a play to relax from the worries of the day, hoping to immerse themselves in the fantasy of the entertainment; public figures are seldom granted such luxury. This is both advantage and a bane of fame.

Public figures are seldom accessible, and many people will take advantage of any opportunity to adore or revile, or as in this example...plead their case because a chance is there to be heard.

That is exactly what free expression is, seeking a chance to be heard whether the listener's agree with the message or not.

So I vote YES, it is a valid example of Free Expression. What say you?

I say yes, it was free expression but it was wrong. I'd be comfortable about it if Pence had a chance to reply, but I don't like what happened.
Just because you have a right doesn't mean you are right.
 

GhostlyJoe

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when i pay for something via my money, i have made a purchase of a service.

i have a right to that service without be subjected to harassment, when you are on property you don't own, you don't have a right to free speech.

Are you seriously arguing that only property owners have free speech rights?
 

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Please define these "rights" as they pertain to the law, the constitution or anything at all beyond the delicate feelings of the God Emperor and his supporters.

example of what i am saying:

you go to a movie and just as the movie starts someone yells fire!....you run out and dont see the movie, you have been deprived of your property, which is the performance of that movie because you pay for that performance.

but when you enter a theater you didn't pay to have free speech, you don't have a right to harass the people who paid for that performance.

would you accept people is a theater yelling things , booing at you while you paid to see the movie, ...no you would not.
 

Grand Mal

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when i pay for something via my money, i have made a purchase of a service.

i have a right to that service without be subjected to harassment, when you are on property you don't own, you don't have a right to free speech.

You sure about that?
 

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example of what i am saying:

you go to a movie and just as the movie starts someone yells fire!....you run out and dont see the movie, you have been deprived of your property, which is the performance of that movie because you pay for that performance.

but when you enter a theater you didn't pay to have free speech, you don't have a right to harass the people who paid for that performance.

would you accept people is a theater yelling things , booing at you while you paid to see the movie, ...no you would not.

So asking Pence and Trump to represent all Americans is "yelling fire" in a crowded theater to you. Get ready for four years of having no credibility.
 

Master PO

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Insofar as I can tell, you either haven't actually watched the video or "harassment" means having the filthy masses addressing the God Emperor's right hand man directly without having first requested a royal audience. .

if pence paid to see a show, then by right of property he has a right to see it without being harassed.
 

Cardinal

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if pence paid to see a show, then by right of property he has a right to see it without being harassed.

The God Emperor's little snowflake is in for a rough four years.
 

Master PO

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So asking Pence and Trump to represent all Americans is "yelling fire" in a crowded theater to you. Get ready for four years of having no credibility.


so asking?..what does that mean.

you cannot justify from harassing people then they have paid money to see something.
 
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