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Pelosi guilty of violating Logan Act (1790)

easyt65

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Logan Act: Logan Act: Information from Answers.com

The Logan Act (18 U.S.C.A. § 953 [1948]) is a single federal statute making it a crime for a citizen to confer with foreign governments against the interests of the United States. Specifically, it prohibits citizens from negotiating with other nations on behalf of the United States without authorization.

Congress established the Logan Act in 1799, less than one year after passage of the Alien and Sedition Acts, which authorized the arrest and deportation of aliens and prohibited written communication defamatory to the U.S. government. The 1799 act was named after Dr. George Logan. A prominent Republican and Quaker from Pennsylvania, Logan did not draft or introduce the legislation that bears his name, but was involved in the political climate that precipitated it.

In the late 1790s, a French trade embargo and jailing of U.S. seamen created animosity and unstable conditions between the United States and France. Logan sailed to France in the hope of presenting options to its government to improve relations with the United States and quell the growing anti-French sentiment in the United States. France responded by lifting the embargo and releasing the captives. Logan's return to the United States was marked by Republican praise and Federalist scorn. To prevent U.S. citizens from interfering with negotiations between the United States and foreign governments in the future, the Adams administration quickly introduced the bill that would become the Logan Act.

The Logan Act has remained almost unchanged and unused since its passage. The act is short and reads as follows:

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply, himself or his agent, to any foreign government or the agents thereof for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

The language of the act appears to encompass almost every communication between a U.S. citizen and a foreign government considered an attempt to influence negotiations between their two countries. Because the language is so broad in scope, legal scholars and judges have suggested that the Logan Act is unconstitutional. Historically, the act has been used more as a threat to those engaged in various political activities than as a weapon for prosecution. In fact, Logan Act violations have been discussed in almost every administration without any serious attempt at enforcement, and to date there have been no convictions and only one recorded indictment.

One example of the act's use as a threat of prosecution involved the Reverend Jesse Jackson. (Another self-promoting Liberal only interested in personal and party power and profit?! Say it ain't so! :rofl ) In 1984 Jackson took well-publicized trips to Cuba and Nicaragua and returned with several Cuban political prisoners seeking asylum in the United States. PresidentRonald Reagan stated that Jackson's activities may have violated the law, but Jackson was not pursued beyond a threat.

The only Logan Act indictment occurred in 1803. It involved a Kentucky newspaper article that argued for the formation in the western United States of a separate nation allied to France. No prosecution followed.

Of course, as the Libs like to point out, if you commit a crime and are not prosecuted for it, technically (to them) you never committed a crime! :rofl

I guess Pelosi considers herself the approving authority required to grant HERSELF permission to negotiate with terrorist states! :roll: :doh
 
the act appears to encompass almost every communication between a U.S. citizen and a foreign government considered an attempt to influence negotiations between their two countries.

Thats horribly unconstitutional. I've talked to the King of Tonga a few times, thereby putting me in violation of such a pathetic excuse for a law. It should be repealed immediately with something that is specific in its scope. If you want to attack Pelosi for conducting unauthorized negotiations, thats fine. However, you need to find evidence to support such allegations.
 
Thats horribly unconstitutional. I've talked to the King of Tonga a few times, thereby putting me in violation of such a pathetic excuse for a law. It should be repealed immediately with something that is specific in its scope. If you want to attack Pelosi for conducting unauthorized negotiations, thats fine. However, you need to find evidence to support such allegations.

Exactly WHAT did you attempt to negotiate on behalf of and as a representative of the United states during these negotiations with the King of Tonga? THAT is the big difference. Also, I am unaware that the Tonga was a terrorist state that the United States declared, as part of our Foreign Policy, would not be negotiated with or visited, as has Syria!

I am pretty sure you are not a Senator or goverment representative, and i am d@mn sure you are not Pelosi, Speaker of the House.

Evidence of her negotiating with Syria? read yesterday's interview with Pelosi in any of the U.S.'s media. she bragged about how she was going to negotiate peace talks regarding Israel, was going to try to negotiate a change in Syrian attitude and policy regarding Israel, and was going to try to get them to sit down to talks to work on a 'road to peace'. Much like the Brit slodiers have been doing in Iran, Pelosi allowed herself to be video taped confessing - there's your evidence, from Pelosi herself!
 
What of the Republican Congressional Delegations to Syria....do we charge them as well?

Exclusive: Republican Delegation Currently Visiting Syria, Spared From White House Attacks

The White House today lashed out at Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) for daring to visit Syria in the coming days. White House spokesperson Dana Perino:

I do think that, as a general rule — and this would go for Speaker of the House Pelosi and this apparent trip that she is going to be taking — that we don’t think it’s a good idea. …

I’m not sure what the hopes are to — what she’s hoping to accomplish there. I know that Assad probably really wants people to come and have a photo opportunity and have tea with him, and have discussions about where they’re coming from, but we do think that’s a really bad idea.

Not only are the administration’s attacks on Pelosi hypocritical, but the timing suggests they are a partisan hit. ThinkProgress has learned that a delegation of Republicans is currently in Syria. (This has not been previously reported by the press.) Why did the White House wait until Pelosi’s imminent visit to raise this issue publicly, and not make mention of the Republicans already there?

Here’s what the White House isn’t talking about:

Republican Reps. Aderholt and Wolf are currently visiting Syria. According to a congressional official on Rep. Robert Aderholt’s (R-AL) staff, Aderholt and Rep. Frank Wolf (R-VA) are currently visiting Israel and Syria.


Think Progress » Exclusive: Republican Delegation Currently Visiting Syria, Spared From White House Attacks
 
Do you have any clue what those other delegations' missions are?
- I didn't think so!

Are they meeting with the President of the Terrorist State?
- I'll spare you from that dumb, blank stare on your face and answer for you:
NO!


Are they negotiating ANYTHING with the President of Syria?
Again, NO!

Have they gone on TV and announced to the world, as moronically as Pelosi has done, that she fully intends to violate established U.S. Foreign Policy by negotiating with the head of a terrorist state, thereby breaking the logan act of 1790?
- Once again, a resounding NO!

<sigh> Any more attempts to justify Pelosi's proven/technical, as per definition/law in the Logan Act of 1790, violation of law and undermining of the United States/President? :roll:
 
Logan Act: Logan Act: Information from Answers.com

The Logan Act (18 U.S.C.A. § 953 [1948]) is a single federal statute making it a crime for a citizen to confer with foreign governments against the interests of the United States. Specifically, it prohibits citizens from negotiating with other nations on behalf of the United States without authorization.


Of course, as the Libs like to point out, if you commit a crime and are not prosecuted for it, technically (to them) you never committed a crime! :rofl

I guess Pelosi considers herself the approving authority required to grant HERSELF permission to negotiate with terrorist states! :roll: :doh

Pelosi was not confering against the interests of the US. What are you talking about?
 
Pelosi was not confering against the interests of the US. What are you talking about?



The Interests of the United States, as directed through established current foreign policy, is that the U.S. will NOT converse with, negotiate with, or visit leaders of terrorists states - that includes the President of Syria!

Pelosi has already delcared that she fully intends to disobey and break from that established foreign policy by meeting with the President of Syria! Unless Pelosi is meeting with him as Nancy Pelosi, TOURIST, she is breaking the Logan act of 1790!

According to her own interview, she intends to discuss and negotiate with the President of Syria, attempting to further/broker a peace deal between Syria and israel, convincing them of the error of their ways! THAT is in direct violation of the logan Act, no matter how you attempt to justify it! but you Libs need to calm down - its not like she will be charged or convicted with any crime for her treason/criminal act, so its all good, right?!
 
how can we get these moon bats out of the republican party?

It's always the same back and forth crap with no progress.
 
Thats horribly unconstitutional. I've talked to the King of Tonga a few times, thereby putting me in violation of such a pathetic excuse for a law. It should be repealed immediately with something that is specific in its scope. If you want to attack Pelosi for conducting unauthorized negotiations, thats fine. However, you need to find evidence to support such allegations.

You were negotiating on behalf of the U.S. government against U.S. interests? What's your job?
 
the act appears to encompass almost every communication between a U.S. citizen and a foreign government considered an attempt to influence negotiations between their two countries.

Thats my problem. Its way too broad.

Also, I am unaware that the Tonga was a terrorist state that the United States declared, as part of our Foreign Policy, would not be negotiated with or visited, as has Syria!

Bush has no authority to declare that an American cannot visit a certain country.

she bragged about how she was going to negotiate peace talks regarding Israel, was going to try to negotiate a change in Syrian attitude and policy regarding Israel, and was going to try to get them to sit down to talks to work on a 'road to peace'.

She is dealing with Israel and Syria, not the United States. She is not acting as a representative of the United States.

You were negotiating on behalf of the U.S. government against U.S. interests? What's your job?

Incorrect premise. The problem with the law is that it doesn't specify terms like those you described.
 
And how was Republican senator Arlen Specter's visit to syria in December with Assad any different from Pelosi? Just out of curiosity.


Senator Arlen Specter - Pennsylvania


On December 25, I arrived in Damascus, Syria. My 16th visit included my 4th meeting with President Bashar al-Assad.



Longtime Republican Senator Arlen Specter said he will visit Syria despite loud objections by the Bush administration, saying the situation in Iraq is so dire that it is time Congress step up to the plate and see what it can do.

Specter, who has been in the Senate for 26 years, said in an interview late Friday he is planning a trip to the Middle East that will include Israel and Syria. The senator said he and other Republicans are concerned that the administration's policies in the Middle East are not working and that other Republican members may follow him.

"I've talked to my Republican colleagues, and there is a disquiet here," Specter said.

Leading Republican senator plans Syria trip, despite White House opposition - Americas - International Herald Tribune


Pelosi had a precedent

So to answer your question

Do you have any clue what those other delegations' missions are?

Yes, see link...... to discuss with the Syrian president the serious state of affairs with the Hezbolla, Israel, the Golan Heights and border issues. to quote from the link "We discussed the difficulties associated with controlling a large border between Syria and Iraq and a recent Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between the nations to control the traffic of foreign fighters from Yemen, Algeria, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and elsewhere seeking to fight the U.S. forces in Iraq."


Are they meeting with the President of the Terrorist State?
-
No blank stare, just a resounding yes.

Have they gone on TV and announced to the world, as moronically as Pelosi has done, that she fully intends to violate established U.S. Foreign Policy by negotiating with the head of a terrorist state, thereby breaking the logan act of 1790?


Well he did tell the press.
 
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Thats horribly unconstitutional. I've talked to the King of Tonga a few times,

Did you claim to be representing the US government or acting as an official of the US government?

thereby putting me in violation of such a pathetic excuse for a law.

You overblown rhetoric does not pass for rational debate.
It should be repealed immediately with something that is specific in its scope.

It's worked for a few hundred years, the founding fathers knew what they were doing. You just don't like it.

If you want to attack Pelosi
f

How is someone's pointing out that she could be in violation of a very long standing principle of our government "attacking" Pelosi. Is she untouchable, annoited and beyond criticism or something?
 
How is someone's pointing out that she could be in violation of a very long standing principle of our government "attacking" Pelosi. Is she untouchable, annoited and beyond criticism or something?


You are accusing her of breaking a law, which has been "Broken" by very high ranking members of the republican party without a comment at all from you. Your entire argument is blatantly partisan, and a poorly vieled attempt to cherry pick. You systematically, and regularly attempt to bring any weaknesses of democrats to light, while completely ignoring the issues republicans create, for obviously partisan reasons.
There is nothing inherently wrong with this tactic, we all do it to an extent....but at least fess up to it when called out, otherwise you do not debate,you whine.
 
The fact that elected members of the GOP have also violated the Logan Act, and therefore should be punished as well, does not justify Pelosi's violation of the act!

Pelosi, however, has even gone even farther than these members of the GOP! Not only has she illegally and fraudulently mis-represented the Goverment of the United States while violating the Logan Act, she has also illegally mis-represented the nation of Israel, fraudulently/criminally claiming to have carried a message from the leader of Israel along with their blessing/authority to engage in negotiations/peace talks with Syria!

Pratfall in Damascus - washingtonpost.com

Pratfall in Damascus
Nancy Pelosi's foolish shuttle diplomacy

HOUSE SPEAKER Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) offered an excellent demonstration yesterday of why members of Congress should not attempt to supplant the secretary of state when traveling abroad. After a meeting with Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad in Damascus, Ms. Pelosi announced that she had delivered a message from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that "Israel was ready to engage in peace talks" with Syria. What's more, she added, Mr. Assad was ready to "resume the peace process" as well. Having announced this seeming diplomatic breakthrough, Ms. Pelosi suggested that her Kissingerian shuttle diplomacy was just getting started. :doh "We expressed our interest in using our good offices in promoting peace between Israel and Syria," she said.

Only one problem: The Israeli prime minister entrusted Ms. Pelosi with no such message. "What was communicated to the U.S. House Speaker does not contain any change in the policies of Israel," said a statement quickly issued by the prime minister's office. In fact, Mr. Olmert told Ms. Pelosi that "a number of Senate and House members who recently visited Damascus received the impression that despite the declarations of Bashar Assad, there is no change in the position of his country regarding a possible peace process with Israel."

In other words, Ms. Pelosi not only mis-represented Israel's position but was virtually alone in failing to discern that Mr. Assad's words were mere propaganda.

Olmert called Pelosi out, declared she mis-represented Israel and basically said she was stupid to boot because she was the only one NOT to realize Assad's words were BS and that he was using her for reasons of propoganda!

SHE attemprted to usurp not only the power of the President of the United States but the power of the leader of Israel as well, engaging in illegal negotiations in which she mis-represented BOTH the U.S. and Israel, and - in turn - was slammed on the world stage by the leader of Israel, one of the nations she mis-represented, and was even mocked - called an idiot for her ignorance and for allowing herself to be used for terrorist Propoganda!

:rofl

Oh, yeah, she accomplished quite a lot for just 1 visit, and her actions were just about what the Muslim community expects from women (thanks for furthering that stereotype/culture, Nancy!)!

Even before she claimed the seat of Speaker of the House she embarrassed and scandalized herself. Before takking the seat, AFTER claiming she would run the cleanest Congress in history (she must have hired more cleaning crews), Pelosi's 1st 2 nominess were the star of the FBI ABSCAM tapes (in which he said he would take a bribe later but not now) and an EX-Judge convicted of multiple crimes, to include perjury, to head up the INTEL Committee! :rofl NOW she heads off to a terrorist state where she violates the Logan Act, illegally mis-represents TWO (2) nations, is criticized by the President of her own nation, slammed and insulted/humiliated by the leader of the other, and allows herself to aid and abet our enemy's propganda campaign!

If this wasn't so treasonous, criminal, and tragic, this would be frickin' FUNNY! :roll:
 
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As tecoyah pointed out your outrage is quite partisan. If other Republicans violated the law it certainly does not excuse Nancy' as you correctly pointed out but you outrage has not been directed at them as well. It seems selective in your case. Once again how was senator Arlen Sectors actions any more "legal" ?
 
You are accusing her of breaking a law, which has been "Broken" by very high ranking members of the republican party without a comment at all from you.

They should have paid heed to the administration and not gone, but they did not make a public spectical of it and they are not the high ranking official Pelosi is nor did they attempt to conduct foreign policy as she did.

Your entire argument is blatantly partisan,

Argue the issue. Your knee-jerk "just call it partisan" is just a dodge.

You .............................

Argue the issue. You lack of doing so proves the weakness of your case.
 
As tecoyah pointed out your outrage is quite partisan. If other Republicans violated the law it certainly does not excuse Nancy' as you correctly pointed out but you outrage has not been directed at them as well. It seems selective in your case. Once again how was senator Arlen Sectors actions any more "legal" ?

WHOA! The very 1st line in my last post states that I believe the GOP members who met with Assad should be punished as well! But, as i pointed out, Pelosi went WAY beyond what these GOP members did!

Partisan? NO - AMERICAN!

As an AMERICAN, I am down right embarrased and PI$$ED OFF that Pelosi, in an effort to grab some political headlines and prove she knows better than the President, violated the Logan Act, criminally and fraudulently mis-represented not only her own nation but another nation as well, was called out/slammed and called an idiot on the world stage, AND allowed herself to be used for/in terrorist propoganda!

Iran, Syria, Al Qaeda, Muslim Extremists - they can not BUY advertisement/world media coverage/propoganda gold like THIS!

How was Spector's case different? He did not criminally and fraudulently claim to carry a message from Ohlmert or the authority to deliver such a message from Israel to Syria! He did not make a declaration to the world on behalf of the U.S. and Israel only to be called a LIAR/FRAUD by Israel's leader immediately after! How's that for a START?!

Pelosi, and evidently YOU, has no idea how much damage she has done by this criminal and fraudulent act!

So, as an American, you are d@mn right that I am angry, outraged - PI$$ED!
 
I see Nancy is ticking off the right people. Go Nancy! :rofl
 
I see Nancy is ticking off the right people. Go Nancy! :rofl


Like the Washington Post which just slammed her?

[SIZE=+2]Pratfall in Damascus[/SIZE]
Nancy Pelosi's foolish shuttle diplomacy
[SIZE=-1]Thursday, April 5, 2007; A16
[/SIZE]
HOUSE SPEAKER Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) offered an excellent demonstration yesterday of why members of Congress should not attempt to supplant the secretary of state when traveling abroad. After a meeting with Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad in Damascus, Ms. Pelosi announced that she had delivered a message from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that "Israel was ready to engage in peace talks" with Syria. What's more, she added, Mr. Assad was ready to "resume the peace process" as well. Having announced this seeming diplomatic breakthrough, Ms. Pelosi suggested that her Kissingerian shuttle diplomacy was just getting started. "We expressed our interest in using our good offices in promoting peace between Israel and Syria," she said.
Only one problem: The Israeli prime minister entrusted Ms. Pelosi with no such message. "What was communicated to the U.S. House Speaker does not contain any change in the policies of Israel," said a statement quickly issued by the prime minister's office. In fact, Mr. Olmert told Ms. Pelosi that "a number of Senate and House members who recently visited Damascus received the impression that despite the declarations of Bashar Assad, there is no change in the position of his country regarding a possible peace process with Israel." In other words, Ms. Pelosi not only misrepresented Israel's position but was virtually alone in failing to discern that Mr. Assad's words were mere propaganda.

Pratfall in Damascus - washingtonpost.com

She just demonstrated what an idiot she is and why the Democrats should remove her from the Speakership. She is too incompetent to be engaging in activities that directly effect our national security and the delictate diplomatic minefield the administration must navigate through.
 
WHOA! The very 1st line in my last post states that I believe the GOP members who met with Assad should be punished as well! But, as i pointed out, Pelosi went WAY beyond what these GOP members did!

but only after we pointed out Republican party member's transgression. Your thread starter did not even begin to address that.

And yes, I like how Nancy is ******* off the right people :)
 
She's ticking off Isreal too? I'm really starting to like this chick!
 
but only after we pointed out Republican party member's transgression. Your thread starter did not even begin to address that.

And yes, I like how Nancy is ******* off the right people :)

The fact that GOP members visiting Syria was not splashed across the media like Pelosi's was, as she tried to grab headlines, was the reason I did not mention it at first. I acknowledged the fact and their crimes, as well, as soon as I realized it.

You, on the other hand, seem to think Pelosi is some kind of hero for breaking laws, criminally and fraudulently mis-representing not only her own country but others, displaying her ignorance to the world, being called a liar before the world, and aiding and abetting terrorists in their propoganda campaigns! THEREIN lies the REAL problem!
 
You, on the other hand, seem to think Pelosi is some kind of hero for breaking laws, criminally and fraudulently mis-representing not only her own country but others, displaying her ignorance to the world, being called a liar before the world, and aiding and abetting terrorists in their propoganda campaigns! THEREIN lies the REAL problem!

very emotional but where have I said I supported her actions? I like how she pisses people off in this forum but I just bought up the fact that others have done similar actions. you are putting words in my mouth. Highlight my posts that show I support her actions which by the way I don't.....:)
 
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