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Pearl Harbor day

Dittohead not!

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It seems the "day that will live in infamy" has largely been forgotten. We still remember 9/11, but 12/7 seems to have faded from memory.

Of course, Japan of 2018 is quite different from Japan of 1941, so maybe forgetting and forgiving is the right thing to do.....

...or is ignoring history liable to condemn us to repeat it?

What do you think?
 
Well, I think Santayana was right about those who can't remember the past being condemned to repeat it. The history of humankind suggests this.

I said something yesterday to a couple of young adults about how glad I was that President Bush's funeral was not on the 7th, and they knew instantly that I was referring to Pearl Harbor.
 
It seems the "day that will live in infamy" has largely been forgotten. We still remember 9/11, but 12/7 seems to have faded from memory.

Of course, Japan of 2018 is quite different from Japan of 1941, so maybe forgetting and forgiving is the right thing to do.....

...or is ignoring history liable to condemn us to repeat it?

What do you think?

For a lot of people, including the mavens of the PNAC, 9/11 REPLACED 12/7.
It was the "new Pearl Harbor" that they openly fantasized about in their singles ad "Rebuilding America's Defenses".


"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor."

Sincerely,
Jeb Bush, Dick Cheney, William Kristol, Donald Rumsfeld, Dan Quayle, Paul Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby
 
Well, I think Santayana was right about those who can't remember the past being condemned to repeat it. The history of humankind suggests this.

I said something yesterday to a couple of young adults about how glad I was that President Bush's funeral was not on the 7th, and they knew instantly that I was referring to Pearl Harbor.

Damn, that is refreshing to hear! I needed that. Thanks!
 
It seems the "day that will live in infamy" has largely been forgotten. We still remember 9/11, but 12/7 seems to have faded from memory.

Of course, Japan of 2018 is quite different from Japan of 1941, so maybe forgetting and forgiving is the right thing to do.....

...or is ignoring history liable to condemn us to repeat it?

What do you think?


Let's get one thing right:
If you're going to quote what may be FDR's most famous remark, at least quote him accurately. FDR said "December 7th, 1941 a date which will live in infamy," not "a day...that..." I presume he didn't say "day" because, as a Groton grad, he was well aware of the difference between "day" and "date" -- a difference that, frankly, fifth graders should comprehend and apply -- and because he found it important to speak with precision and use words that correctly and accurate depict the thoughts he cared to express.

The fact of Pearl having been bombed on a given date is why National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day is always on a given date, December 7th, and not a given day (Mon, Tues, Wed, etc.).

You're misstating FDR's remarks does not preclude my knowing what you've got in mind. I'm merely saying that if you're going to quote someone, exhibit the rigor, the intellectual and pragmatic integrity of bothering to accurately do so. The misquote you've penned, if one takes it as representationally/existentially faithful, implies that FDR was either ignorant of the difference between "day" and "date" or too indolent to dictionally apply the difference. FDR was neither for he did indeed "know words," "have the best words" and aptly and ably use them.​


With that out of the way....

  • Who, in your mind, is "we?"
  • Given that Congress established December 7th as National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day and that legislation requests that the POTUS...
    • "...issue each year a proclamation calling on-
      the people of the United States to observe National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day with appropriate ceremonies and activities; and
    • all departments, agencies, and instrumentalities of the United States Government, and interested organizations, groups, and individuals, to fly the flag of the United States at halfstaff each December 7 in honor of the individuals who died as a result of their service at Pearl Harbor.
How do you reckon that the "'date that will live in infamy' has largely been forgotten?"​

 


Let's get one thing right:
If you're going to quote what may be FDR's most famous remark, at least quote him accurately. FDR said "December 7th, 1941 a date which will live in infamy," not "a day...that..." I presume he didn't say "day" because, as a Groton grad, he was well aware of the difference between "day" and "date" -- a difference that, frankly, fifth graders should comprehend and apply -- and because he found it important to speak with precision and use words that correctly and accurate depict the thoughts he cared to express.

The fact of Pearl having been bombed on a given date is why National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day is always on a given date, December 7th, and not a given day (Mon, Tues, Wed, etc.).

You're misstating FDR's remarks does not preclude my knowing what you've got in mind. I'm merely saying that if you're going to quote someone, exhibit the rigor, the intellectual and pragmatic integrity of bothering to accurately do so. The misquote you've penned, if one takes it as representationally/existentially faithful, implies that FDR was either ignorant of the difference between "day" and "date" or too indolent to dictionally apply the difference. FDR was neither for he did indeed "know words," "have the best words" and aptly and ably use them.​


With that out of the way....

  • Who, in your mind, is "we?"
  • Given that Congress established December 7th as National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day and that legislation requests that the POTUS...
    • "...issue each year a proclamation calling on-
      the people of the United States to observe National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day with appropriate ceremonies and activities; and
    • all departments, agencies, and instrumentalities of the United States Government, and interested organizations, groups, and individuals, to fly the flag of the United States at halfstaff each December 7 in honor of the individuals who died as a result of their service at Pearl Harbor.
How do you reckon that the "'date that will live in infamy' has largely been forgotten?"​



Firstly, let me present you with your badge:

1359613086_grammar_police_xlarge.png


Secondly, let's reiterate this part of your quote:

Given that Congress established December 7th as National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day and that legislation requests that the POTUS...

and now that that is out of the way, the answer to your question is that no one even mentions Pearl Harbor day, or date if you prefer.
 
It seems the "day that will live in infamy" has largely been forgotten. We still remember 9/11, but 12/7 seems to have faded from memory.

Of course, Japan of 2018 is quite different from Japan of 1941, so maybe forgetting and forgiving is the right thing to do.....

...or is ignoring history liable to condemn us to repeat it?

What do you think?
So few of the people alive during the PH attack are still alive that actual memory of the events and the emotions they evoked are fading away. What most of us know of the Pearl Harbor attack is from history books which lack the gut-punch effect that we've just been attacked.
 
So few of the people alive during the PH attack are still alive that actual memory of the events and the emotions they evoked are fading away. What most of us know of the Pearl Harbor attack is from history books which lack the gut-punch effect that we've just been attacked.

Good point. Hardly any of us were old enough to have been aware of the Pearl Harbor attack. If we weren't here when it happened, it lacks emotional punch. So many events are starting to fade for the same reason. Fewer and fewer remember the Kennedy assassination, the Reagan attempted assassination, the Tet Offensive, the My Lie Massacre, lots of historical events. Even 9/11 is from a dusty history book for most high schoolers now.

Still, history does matter and needs to be passed on, as best we can, to younger generations.
 
It seems the "day that will live in infamy" has largely been forgotten. We still remember 9/11, but 12/7 seems to have faded from memory.


Of course, Japan of 2018 is quite different from Japan of 1941, so maybe forgetting and forgiving is the right thing to do.....


...or is ignoring history liable to condemn us to repeat it?


What do you think?




Let's get one thing right:
If you're going to quote what may be FDR's most famous remark, at least quote him accurately. FDR said "December 7th, 1941 a date which will live in infamy," not "a day...that..." I presume he didn't say "day" because, as a Groton grad, he was well aware of the difference between "day" and "date" -- a difference that, frankly, fifth graders should comprehend and apply -- and because he found it important to speak with precision and use words that correctly and accurate depict the thoughts he cared to express.

The fact of Pearl having been bombed on a given date is why National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day is always on a given date, December 7th, and not a given day (Mon, Tues, Wed, etc.).

You're misstating FDR's remarks does not preclude my knowing what you've got in mind. I'm merely saying that if you're going to quote someone, exhibit the rigor, the intellectual and pragmatic integrity of bothering to accurately do so. The misquote you've penned, if one takes it as representationally/existentially faithful, implies that FDR was either ignorant of the difference between "day" and "date" or too indolent to dictionally apply the difference. FDR was neither for he did indeed "know words," "have the best words" and aptly and ably use them.​


With that out of the way....
Firstly, let me present you with your badge:

1359613086_grammar_police_xlarge.png




  1. My comment had nothing to do with your grammar. It had only to do with your misquoting FDR and the implications of the nature of the misquote itself. Your grammar doesn't factor into your quotations of other people's statements.
  2. Why did you need to be smug about the mistake you clearly made and that I remarked upon? Was it too much for you to simply acknowledge the error -- saying something akin to "my bad" -- and being done?

    Integrity bids one called-out for their clear mistake(s) to simply own them and move on. Nobody's going to chide one who owns his fallibility because we all are so; being so is quintessentially human. I mean, really. What response is there to give when another "owns" their goofs and gaffes? None, unless one is literally the sort who "beats dead horses."
    • While my comments in this second "bullet point" may to you seem sanctimonious, the fact is that if you use the search function, you'll find that when people call me out or call to my attention clear/objective mistakes I've made, I do in fact simply "own" my error and move on. I've not suggested you comport yourself in any way that I'm unwilling to exhibit. Indeed, that I'm willing to "own my ****" is the currency that affords me the wherewithal to ridicule public figures (and sometimes others) for not doing so.
    • FWIW, the reason I called attention to your misquoting of FDR is because the error in your misquote of him makes FDR seem like the linguistic rube that Donald Trump is....FDR does not deserve to be thus depicted, explicitly or tacitly.
 
Good point. Hardly any of us were old enough to have been aware of the Pearl Harbor attack. If we weren't here when it happened, it lacks emotional punch. So many events are starting to fade for the same reason. Fewer and fewer remember the Kennedy assassination, the Reagan attempted assassination, the Tet Offensive, the My Lie Massacre, lots of historical events. Even 9/11 is from a dusty history book for most high schoolers now.

Still, history does matter and needs to be passed on, as best we can, to younger generations.
I agree. During my Navy career I tried to visit the Arizona Memorial whenever we made a port visit to Pearl Harbor. also tried to get as many of my young sailors as possible to make the trip. It's inspiring and emotional to see the list of sailors still entombed on the ship and stand on the memorial and look down towards the massive ship resting just below the waves.
 
  1. My comment had nothing to do with your grammar. It had only to do with your misquoting FDR and the implications of the nature of the misquote itself. Your grammar doesn't factor into your quotations of other people's statements.
  2. Why did you need to be smug about the mistake you clearly made and that I remarked upon? Was it too much for you to simply acknowledge the error -- saying something akin to "my bad" -- and being done?

    Integrity bids one called-out for their clear mistake(s) to simply own them and move on. Nobody's going to chide one who owns his fallibility because we all are so; being so is quintessentially human. I mean, really. What response is there to give when another "owns" their goofs and gaffes? None, unless one is literally the sort who "beats dead horses."
    • While my comments in this second "bullet point" may to you seem sanctimonious, the fact is that if you use the search function, you'll find that when people call me out or call to my attention clear/objective mistakes I've made, I do in fact simply "own" my error and move on. I've not suggested you comport yourself in any way that I'm unwilling to exhibit. Indeed, that I'm willing to "own my ****" is the currency that affords me the wherewithal to ridicule public figures (and sometimes others) for not doing so.
    • FWIW, the reason I called attention to your misquoting of FDR is because the error in your misquote of him makes FDR seem like the linguistic rube that Donald Trump is....FDR does not deserve to be thus depicted, explicitly or tacitly.

Well, excuse me.

You're right, the word should have been "date," rather than day.

Now that that bit if nitpickery is over, where did you get your own quote:

Given that Congress established December 7th as National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day and that legislation requests that the POTUS...

Did you write that one yourself?
 
  • Who, in your mind, is "we?"
  • Given that Congress established December 7th as National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day and that legislation requests that the POTUS...
    • "...issue each year a proclamation calling on-
      the people of the United States to observe National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day with appropriate ceremonies and activities; and
    • all departments, agencies, and instrumentalities of the United States Government, and interested organizations, groups, and individuals, to fly the flag of the United States at halfstaff each December 7 in honor of the individuals who died as a result of their service at Pearl Harbor.
How do you reckon that the "'date that will live in infamy' has largely been forgotten?"


...the answer to your question is that no one even mentions Pearl Harbor day, or date if you prefer.
Red:
Obviously, as shown by the content found at the webpages to which I linked in the post containing the question you've answering, your "red" statement is factually untrue.
 
Red:
Obviously, as shown by the content found at the webpages to which I linked in the post containing the question you've answering, your "red" statement is factually untrue.

When there is 1/10 of the coverage of Pearl Harbor that there was to the passing of George HW Bush, then I'll believe you.
 
The Pearl Harbour attack will not be forgotten but it will become less important and relevant as the years pass. So will 9/11.
My grandfather each year would go on a rant how Veterns Day was really Armistice Day and the younger generation will not remember the day for it's original intent. I would say he is brewing prove correct. Just as in 75 to 100 years 9/11 will be remembered as Patriots Day more than the attacks.
 
The day the Germans attacked Pearl Harbor will go down in Trumpfamy!
 
It seems the "day that will live in infamy" has largely been forgotten. We still remember 9/11, but 12/7 seems to have faded from memory.

Of course, Japan of 2018 is quite different from Japan of 1941, so maybe forgetting and forgiving is the right thing to do.....

...or is ignoring history liable to condemn us to repeat it?

What do you think?

We kind of did repeat it. Both Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were planned attacks where the government had advanced knowledge.
 


Let's get one thing right:
If you're going to quote what may be FDR's most famous remark, at least quote him accurately. FDR said "December 7th, 1941 a date which will live in infamy," not "a day...that..." I presume he didn't say "day" because, as a Groton grad, he was well aware of the difference between "day" and "date" -- a difference that, frankly, fifth graders should comprehend and apply -- and because he found it important to speak with precision and use words that correctly and accurate depict the thoughts he cared to express.

The fact of Pearl having been bombed on a given date is why National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day is always on a given date, December 7th, and not a given day (Mon, Tues, Wed, etc.).

You're misstating FDR's remarks does not preclude my knowing what you've got in mind. I'm merely saying that if you're going to quote someone, exhibit the rigor, the intellectual and pragmatic integrity of bothering to accurately do so. The misquote you've penned, if one takes it as representationally/existentially faithful, implies that FDR was either ignorant of the difference between "day" and "date" or too indolent to dictionally apply the difference. FDR was neither for he did indeed "know words," "have the best words" and aptly and ably use them.​


With that out of the way....

  • Who, in your mind, is "we?"
  • Given that Congress established December 7th as National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day and that legislation requests that the POTUS...
    • "...issue each year a proclamation calling on-
      the people of the United States to observe National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day with appropriate ceremonies and activities; and
    • all departments, agencies, and instrumentalities of the United States Government, and interested organizations, groups, and individuals, to fly the flag of the United States at halfstaff each December 7 in honor of the individuals who died as a result of their service at Pearl Harbor.
How do you reckon that the "'date that will live in infamy' has largely been forgotten?"​



So, yes FDR got it right but so do Americans. Actually if you look it up the British say which and Americans say that. Anyway a significant memory still.
 
Off-Topic:
So, yes FDR got it right but so do Americans. Actually if you look it up the British say which and Americans say that. Anyway a significant memory still.

Are you referring the grammar and my having written "...a day...that...?" If so, the "that" vs. "which" distinction is irrelevant with regard to the noun, "day/date," to which it refers. "Which" and "that" in that construction, as with many but not all modern parlance, are interchangeable.[SUP]1[/SUP] The relative pronouns that are not interchangeable, at least among careful communicators, are the personal and impersonal ones.


  • [*=1]Correct :

    • [*=1]Use "who/whom" (and other forms thereof) when referring to individuals/people. E.g., "the man who...," "Roger is the person who....," etc.
      [*=1]Do not use "which/that" when referring to individuals.
      [*=1]Use "which/that" when referring to things and places.

      • [*=1]Note: Use "who/whom" when referring to a group noun and the meaning one, as the writer/speaker, intends is that the members of the group be construed as many individuals rather than as a group behaving as unit. E.g.:

        • [*=1]Group construed as multiple individuals

          • [*=1]"The contestants in the Miss America pageant are whose privacy Donald Trump invaded when he entered their dressing room."
          [*=1]Group construed as a unit.

          • [*=1]"It was the ACLU that filed the lawsuit."
          [*=1]Some authors/speakers leave contextually ambiguous, aside from verb conjugation, whether they intend their audience to construe a group noun as a unit or as a circumstantial collection of individuals. When there are no other cues in the sentence's or paragraph that indicate which nature an author intends, one must rely on verb conjugation, provided the group noun in question is the subject of a conjugated verb, to know which meaning to apply.


Note:


  1. [*=1]Based on my anecdotal observations, the occasion of "which" and "that's" functional non-interchangeability as relative pronouns is, in it's application these days, more a matter of style and idiom than of basic grammar, i.e., it's more a matter of 10th grade mastery than 6th grade mastery. Accordingly, whether one does or doesn't consistently apply the rules about the two words' usage merely gives audience members a sense of the author's/writer's sophistication, for rarely, if ever, does not observing those rules confound audience's comprehension of one's message(s).
 
It seems the "day that will live in infamy" has largely been forgotten. We still remember 9/11, but 12/7 seems to have faded from memory.

Of course, Japan of 2018 is quite different from Japan of 1941, so maybe forgetting and forgiving is the right thing to do.....

...or is ignoring history liable to condemn us to repeat it?

What do you think?

I remember it along with "Japanese-American Friendship Day" on August 6th. "Remember Pearl Harbor, Mutha F**kas?"
 
The Pearl Harbour attack will not be forgotten but it will become less important and relevant as the years pass. So will 9/11.
My grandfather each year would go on a rant how Veterns Day was really Armistice Day and the younger generation will not remember the day for it's original intent. I would say he is brewing prove correct. Just as in 75 to 100 years 9/11 will be remembered as Patriots Day more than the attacks.
Blue:
Well, yes....To wit, do many folks these days, other than historians, "Remember the Maine?" Moreover, despite the great significance of the Spanish-American War -- it's what advanced the US into the community of true so-called global powers and empires, as opposed to a nation in which global powers fought their various proxy wars -- AFAIK, we have no holiday for it, though IIRC, some Spanish-speaking nations do, Cuba being the one that comes to mind. (I don't know if Puerto Rico and the Philippines do too.)


Red:
I recall there being VE-Day and VJ-Day distinction in the observances my folks and grandparents expressed about US 20th century wars. That distinction seems increasingly less germane in common parlance about and consideration of our veterans' sacrifices.
 
It seems the "day that will live in infamy" has largely been forgotten. We still remember 9/11, but 12/7 seems to have faded from memory.

Of course, Japan of 2018 is quite different from Japan of 1941, so maybe forgetting and forgiving is the right thing to do.....

...or is ignoring history liable to condemn us to repeat it?

What do you think?

Not with me it hasn't; my dad was a WW2 vet who carried German mortar shrapnel in his shoulder until his death at 75 y/o. He lost two older brothers at Pearl Harbor, one on the Arizona...never recovered. Two uncles I never got to meet.....
 
It seems the "day that will live in infamy" has largely been forgotten. We still remember 9/11, but 12/7 seems to have faded from memory.

Of course, Japan of 2018 is quite different from Japan of 1941, so maybe forgetting and forgiving is the right thing to do.....

...or is ignoring history liable to condemn us to repeat it?

What do you think?

  • Who, in your mind, is "we?"
  • Given that Congress established December 7th as National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day and that legislation requests that the POTUS...
    • "...issue each year a proclamation calling on-
      the people of the United States to observe National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day with appropriate ceremonies and activities; and
    • all departments, agencies, and instrumentalities of the United States Government, and interested organizations, groups, and individuals, to fly the flag of the United States at halfstaff each December 7 in honor of the individuals who died as a result of their service at Pearl Harbor.
How do you reckon that the "'date that will live in infamy' has largely been forgotten?"​


...the answer to your question is that no one even mentions Pearl Harbor day, or date if you prefer.

Red:
Obviously, as shown by the content found at the webpages to which I linked in the post containing the question you've answering, your "red" statement is factually untrue.

When there is 1/10 of the coverage of Pearl Harbor that there was to the passing of George HW Bush, then I'll believe you.


Self portrait?
Red:
As anyone can see from the exchange above, it is you, not I, who, in the face of explicit evidence that the Dec. 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor is not at all forgotten or unspoken of, unequivocally expressed unwillingness to accept that it the attack is remembered and spoken of. So, no, the image above does not depict me. It depicts your attitude toward the facts of the matter regarding the US and its citizens' remembrance of the "date which [lives] in infamy."
 
...where did you get your own quote:

Given that Congress established December 7th as National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day and that legislation requests that the POTUS...

Did you write that one yourself?
Blue:
Here is the section of post 5, from which the above quoted "tan" passage comes:
  • Who, in your mind, is "we?"
  • Given that Congress established December 7th as National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day and that legislation requests that the POTUS...
    • "...issue each year a proclamation calling on-
      the people of the United States to observe National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day with appropriate ceremonies and activities; and
    • ["]all departments, agencies, and instrumentalities of the United States Government, and interested organizations, groups, and individuals, to fly the flag of the United States at halfstaff each December 7 in honor of the individuals who died as a result of their service at Pearl Harbor.["]
How do you reckon that the "'date that will live in infamy' has largely been forgotten?"​


  1. Why, in citing the "tan" passage, did you elect to omit the hyperlink I included with it?
  2. When you read post 5, did you click on the hyperlink that is part of it? Had you done, you'd know exactly from where comes the "tan" bit as well as the content found in the two sub-bullets that follows it.
 
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