• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

PC zero tolerance gone to far?

Chillfolks

DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
8,015
Reaction score
3,818
Location
VA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
School Security Officer Fired for Repeating Racial Slur Aimed at Him - The New York Times

A security guard who has being called a derogatory term (N**g*r) by a student for a few days, finally being feed up he told the student to stop calling him a N**g*r and lost his job because of the school district having a zero tolerance policy of staff using such words. This thread isn’t about what punishment the student should of received, that’s a separate issue. I want to focus on should the security guard have lost his job for violating the schools policy? I say no, just as I didn’t think the VA teacher should of lost his job for refusing to use a pronoun against school policy.
 

Lisa

Salem ac Leporem
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
9,723
Reaction score
4,244
Location
NE Ohio,
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
School Security Officer Fired for Repeating Racial Slur Aimed at Him - The New York Times

A security guard who has been called a derogatory term (N**g*r) by a student for a few days, finally being fed up he told the student to stop calling him a N**g*r and lost his job because of the school district having a zero-tolerance policy of staff using such words. This thread isn’t about what punishment the student should of received, that’s a separate issue. I want to focus on should the security guard have lost his job for violating the schools policy? I say no, just as I didn’t think the VA teacher should of lost his job for refusing to use a pronoun against school policy.
Zero tolerance policies are almost bad because they don't allow for situations.

That is very stupid. The student should be disciplined for the use of the racist epiphet. The security guard was wrong for addressing the student himself in public instead of having someone from the school administration do it in private but it isn't to the point that he should lose his job.
 

OrphanSlug

A sinister place...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
20,541
Reaction score
18,212
Location
Atlanta
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Zero tolerance policies have become crutches for suspension of critical thought, the idea of 'politically correct' thinking impacting this has in fact amplified the problem and in practice means intention and situation are intentionally ignored.

The security guard was in the wrong here, there were better ways to handle that of course but in the end the policy has nothing to do with helping those involved but rather sweeping the whole thing under the rug of 'go away.'
 

PoS

Minister of Love
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
22,896
Reaction score
16,925
Location
Oceania
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Zero tolerance policies have become crutches for suspension of critical thought, the idea of 'politically correct' thinking impacting this has in fact amplified the problem and in practice means intention and situation are intentionally ignored.

The security guard was in the wrong here, there were better ways to handle that of course but in the end the policy has nothing to do with helping those involved but rather sweeping the whole thing under the rug of 'go away.'
I generally agree, but the guard shouldnt be fired for just repeating the slur directed at him- thats just idiotic.
 

Phys251

Alleged
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
30,592
Reaction score
15,375
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Zero tolerance policies are almost bad because they don't allow for situations.

That is very stupid. The student should be disciplined for the use of the racist epiphet. The security guard was wrong for addressing the student himself in public instead of having someone from the school administration do it in private but it isn't to the point that he should lose his job.
Correct.

Zero-tolerance policies are solutions that look for problems. As you said, they do not allow for an examination of all the facts.
 

OrphanSlug

A sinister place...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
20,541
Reaction score
18,212
Location
Atlanta
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I generally agree, but the guard shouldnt be fired for just repeating the slur directed at him- thats just idiotic.
I agree, I am not sure the guard should be fired. Our issue is the event itself caused the zero tolerance policy to kick in, I suspect more to the story that will never really matter exclusively because of the policy.

That is a real problem.
 

WillyPete

Apple of Eris
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
3,740
Reaction score
1,793
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The kid was the instigator, and certainly should be punished, but they are a child and we don't hold then responsible for their acts like we do adults. Maybe we should, but we don't.

On the other side, the adult school security guard should be able to hold his temper when harassed by a child. Failing to do that is a sign that he's not cut out for the job. Pushing the limits is what children do. If you are going to overreact to that, you should work elsewhere.

I don't care for zero tolerance in general, but in this case I see that loss of temper as also a valid reason to let him go.
 

AProudLefty

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Messages
12,153
Reaction score
3,335
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
School Security Officer Fired for Repeating Racial Slur Aimed at Him - The New York Times

A security guard who has being called a derogatory term (N**g*r) by a student for a few days, finally being feed up he told the student to stop calling him a N**g*r and lost his job because of the school district having a zero tolerance policy of staff using such words. This thread isn’t about what punishment the student should of received, that’s a separate issue. I want to focus on should the security guard have lost his job for violating the schools policy? I say no, just as I didn’t think the VA teacher should of lost his job for refusing to use a pronoun against school policy.
“So if the class is reading ‘To Kill a Mockingbird’ and the teacher is reading the book out loud and it gets to the part where the N-word is, the teacher gets fired?” Mr. Anderson asked.
He got a point there. Anyway he will get the job back.
 

AProudLefty

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Messages
12,153
Reaction score
3,335
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Obviously that would depend on the rule.
Then this is not a progressive policy? Make up your mind. Do you or do you not think staff members should be allowed to say offensive words to students?
Anyway, if you keep reading the article, the students want him back and they are reviewing to see if it was in error (which, if we take the story at face value, is what it was). And I am pretty sure he will get his job back.

So that blows your nonsense out of the water. :2wave:
 

Lisa

Salem ac Leporem
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
9,723
Reaction score
4,244
Location
NE Ohio,
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
It's a progressive policy which (as usual) has regressive results.
Zero tolerance is not a progressive policy. It is an authoritarian policy that doesn't allow for individual thinking. It is often enacted because someone refused to act on a serious issue so now they are forced to act, but the actions are the effect of using a sledgehammer to kill houseflies.
A progressive policy allows for individual thinking and rational thought that applies to the situation at hand.
 

Grizzly Adams

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
1,166
Reaction score
381
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Libertarian
On the other side, the adult school security guard should be able to hold his temper when harassed by a child.
I didn't see an indication in the story that the guard lost his temper.
 

aociswundumho

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
3,868
Reaction score
1,504
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Zero tolerance is not a progressive policy.
The whole concept of punishing "problematic" speech is a progressive ideal. In certain countries which are more progressive than the US, people are arrested for innocuous facebook comments.

The security guard is actually quite lucky to be living in a time and place where the progressives who implemented the policy only fired him. Historically, in societies ruled by leftists, such as the USSR, or Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, or China under Mao, or East Germany, North Korea, etc, his politically incorrect speech would have landed him in a prison cell or a concentration camp.

It is an authoritarian policy that doesn't allow for individual thinking.
Indeed it is.

npc.png
 

americanwoman

dangerously addictive
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
26,124
Reaction score
19,330
Location
Somewhere over the rainbow
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
As Mr. Anderson was trying to escort the student out of the building, he said, the student taunted him with the racial slur about 15 times. He said he repeatedly told the student to stop using the slur, which he himself repeated several times.

That’s when he said the assistant principal, Jennifer Talarczyk, turned on the microphone of her walkie-talkie, so that Mr. Anderson could be overheard by school administrators and members of the security staff. He said Ms. Talarczyk told him to “tap out” and remove himself from the confrontation with the student.

“I’m not going to be called that word,” Mr. Anderson said in the interview. “I have a right to not be called that word, I believe. I feel like she tolerated it for the entire ordeal.”

Ms. Talarczyk did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
How crafty of Ms. Talarczyk to let everyone hear out of some context remarks.

I see nothing wrong if someone is called a word to tell that person right back not to call them that word. This is crazy. I do hope he gets his job back.
 

WillyPete

Apple of Eris
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
3,740
Reaction score
1,793
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I didn't see an indication in the story that the guard lost his temper.
True enough, but I find it unlikely that he was calm and collected when he held his impromptu racial sensitivity seminar.

He showed poor judgement, at the least. If he felt the need to deal with it personally, he should have addressed this to the punks parents (and off campus.)
 

Rich2018

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 31, 2018
Messages
27,799
Reaction score
2,043
Location
Norcross, Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
School Security Officer Fired for Repeating Racial Slur Aimed at Him - The New York Times

A security guard who has being called a derogatory term (N**g*r) by a student for a few days, finally being feed up he told the student to stop calling him a N**g*r and lost his job because of the school district having a zero tolerance policy of staff using such words. This thread isn’t about what punishment the student should of received, that’s a separate issue. I want to focus on should the security guard have lost his job for violating the schools policy? I say no, just as I didn’t think the VA teacher should of lost his job for refusing to use a pronoun against school policy.
I think there's another, unreported, side to this story.
 
Top Bottom