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Paycheck Fairness Act

MaggieD

MaggieD

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There are a variety of social norms around talking about wages and salaries. It’s often considered rude to ask someone what they are paid, and this is sometimes true within workplaces. In fact some employers go so far as to not permit workers to share wage and salary information with each other. Employers would be banned from doing this by the Paycheck Fairness Act, which has failed to pass in congress twice. Is this a good idea?
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Should Employers Be Allowed To Prevent Workers From Sharing Their Salary Information? - Forbes

What do you think?
 
StillBallin75 said:
Anything to diminish the worker's bargaining power eh?
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What's your stance? Cryptic. Does sharing diminish bargaining power? Or other way around?

TheNextEra said:
No, they shouldn't be allowed to do this. I personally subscribe to the idea, even amongst friends, I will not disclose how much I make. However, why should employees give up bargaining power to satisfy the corporate beast?
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You might seem to be saying two different things? Does sharing diminish bargaining power? Or other way around?
 
MaggieD said:
What's your stance? Cryptic. Does sharing diminish bargaining power? Or other way around?



You might seem to be saying two different things? Does sharing diminish bargaining power? Or other way around?
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Other way around.
 
MaggieD said:
Should Employers Be Allowed To Prevent Workers From Sharing Their Salary Information? - Forbes

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Would you also mandate the flip side be made public, i.e. the employer publishing all of its worker's performance reviews, safety and attendence records? What is often ignored in this debate is why an employer would want to pay worker A differently than worker B. Some organizations may choose to simply grant pay increases based on "experience" (longevity within that company?) while others may choose to use prodictivity, education/training, attitude and better attendence as major factors.

If you wish to have the how much made public then why not accompany that with the employer stating the why so much as well? Moving toward a "fairness" pay system also is unfair to employers, that may see great benefit in paying thier "better" workers more, "average" workers no more and getting rid of "substandard" workers altogether.

Also related to this discussuion is why the gov't effectively does the same thing. Taxation for two workers, making exactly the same gross salary is different based upon how and upon who that income was later spent. Is it "fair" that worker A pays a different FIT amount than worker B when both "earn" the same amount of salary?
 
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MaggieD said:
You might seem to be saying two different things? Does sharing diminish bargaining power? Or other way around?
Click to expand...

I was brought up that it is rude to discuss wages amongst friends and I willingly choose to follow that.

However, with that said I don't think it should be forced on anyone, especially by an employer. I do think when it's forced on a worker by an employer that it does diminish bargaining power with the employee.
 
TheNextEra said:
No, they shouldn't be allowed to do this. I personally subscribe to the idea, even amongst friends, I will not disclose how much I make. However, why should employees give up bargaining power to satisfy the corporate beast?
Click to expand...

You can still bargain with the employer, just not using your "relative" worth to a co-worker based on their pay. You may always assert that your worth to the employer is X, if the employer agrees then you get it, otherwise you may have to try to find a different employer.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Would you also mandate the flip side be made public, i.e. the employer publishing all of its worker's performance reviews, safety and attendence records? What is often ignored in this debate is why an employer would want to pay worker A differently than worker B. Some organizations may choose to simply grant pay increases based on "experience: (longevity within that company?) while others may choose to use prodictivity, attitude and better attendence as major factors.

If you wish to have the how much made public then why not accompany that with the employer stating the why so much as well? Moving toward a "fairness" pay system also is unfair to employers, that may see great benefit in paying thier "better" workers more, "average" workers no more and getting rid of "substandard" workers altogether.

Also related to this discussuion is why the gov't effectively does the same thing. Taxation for two workers, making exactly the same gross salary is different based upon how and upon who that income was later spent. Is it "fair" that worker A pays a different FIT amount than worker B when both "earn" the same amount of salary?
Click to expand...

It's obvious to me that, since the government is attempting to pass legislation in this regard, it's seen as advantageous to the worker. It would also seem to me that the government is trying to promote workplace unionization.

I had my first taste of this with an employee years ago. She found out "the new gal" made the same amount of money she did. She was furious. The new employee had ten years' experience in the field in which I hired her. The mad employee? I trained her on the job. She'd been with me three years. The idea that longevity buys more money is ludicrous, in my opinion.

The government has no business sticking their nose in employer policies and procedures. If an employer has a policy against sharing salary information, that's their right.
 
MaggieD said:
It's obvious to me that, since the government is attempting to pass legislation in this regard, it's seen as advantageous to the worker. It would also seem to me that the government is trying to promote workplace unionization.

I had my first taste of this with an employee years ago. She found out "the new gal" made the same amount of money she did. She was furious. The new employee had ten years' experience in the field in which I hired her. The mad employee? I trained her on the job. She'd been with me three years. The idea that longevity buys more money is ludicrous, in my opinion.

The government has no business sticking their nose in employer policies and procedures. If an employer has a policy against sharing salary information, that's their right.
Click to expand...

However, if an employer pays differently based on race, ethnicity, gender, religion or marital status then that is illegal. Not having that information makes it very difficult (if not impossible) to determine if that situtation exists.

Excellent example, BTW, of why sharing salary information is not a good idea - perhaps the new gal could sue you for underpaying her based on having 3x the experience as the current worker making the same pay. ;)
 
MaggieD said:
It's obvious to me that, since the government is attempting to pass legislation in this regard, it's seen as advantageous to the worker. It would also seem to me that the government is trying to promote workplace unionization.

I had my first taste of this with an employee years ago. She found out "the new gal" made the same amount of money she did. She was furious. The new employee had ten years' experience in the field in which I hired her. The mad employee? I trained her on the job. She'd been with me three years. The idea that longevity buys more money is ludicrous, in my opinion.

The government has no business sticking their nose in employer policies and procedures. If an employer has a policy against sharing salary information, that's their right.
Click to expand...

Pay should be dictated on a individual bases. not the position or even the amount of time on the job. It needs to be based on the individuals worth to the business he or she is working for. Just because a worker has been with the company for years doesn't always mean he or she is a highly productive worker could be just mediocre and if another worker comes along who produces more then he or she should get paid more regardless the amount of time on job he or she has
 
Hell no I don't think people should know how much other people make. Causes too much dissention among the ranks. If 2 people are doing the same job, but one is paid more than the other, the lesser paid person is going to get butthurt about it, and be a less productive employee. I know this from experience.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Anything to diminish the worker's bargaining power eh?
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I don't see how you reach this conclusion. In my view, the only thing that diminishes a worker's bargaining power is membership in a union where the employee's value is collectively determined irrespective of their particular abilities. If you're not in a union, you can determine your own worth in negotiations simply by accepting or not accepting salary offers. Your particular value to an entity is not related to the value of other employees but to the demand for your services at a rate that entity is prepared to pay.
 
MaggieD said:
Should Employers Be Allowed To Prevent Workers From Sharing Their Salary Information? - Forbes

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Looking at it from the employer end, and as others have already mentioned, people do not take into account experience, ability, initiative and willingness to learn when comparing wages. Rarely do two (or more) people have the absolute exact same qualifications. Someone who comes with more experience in the field versus some one fresh out of school (degree or not) who hasn't proven their worth yet shouldn't be making more than the one with experience based on those factors alone.

Some use the knowledge of what others make as a basis of what they should be making, an attempt to pressure the employer into paying them more. To me, and many employers, it is about the biggest disservice they can do to themselves.

Come to me with a list of your merits and accomplishments, and valid reasons why you should get a raise, and chances are I'd be willing to sit down and discuss it. Come to me whining about what someone else makes, and you've already lost before you've begun.
 
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ttwtt78640 said:
You can still bargain with the employer, just not using your "relative" worth to a co-worker based on their pay. You may always assert that your worth to the employer is X, if the employer agrees then you get it, otherwise you may have to try to find a different employer.
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Yet again, why should the employer be able to FORCE someone to not disclose their wage? Why should an employer be given this power over an employee?
 
TheNextEra said:
Yet again, why should the employer be able to FORCE someone to not disclose their wage? Why should an employer be given this power over an employee?
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Perhaps the same reason why an employer can FORCE someone to wear an ugly uniform when working.

But to be clear, if you are adamantly opposed to not being able to discuss your actual salary with other employees, no one is FORCING you to accept the job or to continue working there.
 
MaggieD said:
Should Employers Be Allowed To Prevent Workers From Sharing Their Salary Information? - Forbes

What do you think?
Click to expand...

I support the idea that people should be willing to freely share any personal information with whomever they wish. The cultural norm that says people should be prohibited to talking about their compensation is sold to the public as protecting THEIR right to privacy, however the true motivation is to offer the greatest empowerment possible to employers over their employees by allowing limited access to information concerning their compensation policies. Transparency in compensation could especially be of interest if larger employers for example, have a pattern of paying ethnic minorities or women at significantly different levels for the same or even greater productivity outcomes than others.

However, I do not think its right for that information to be shared with anyone other than the employee unless the employer is a government entity, a government contractor, a publicly traded company or a donor supported non-profit organization. I just don't think an employee should be pressured not share their compensation details if they want to or penalized if they do.
 
any employee should be able to reveal anything they want about their salary and benefits. if employers are currently preventing them from doing so, i absolutely support a law that removes their ability to do this.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Would you also mandate the flip side be made public, i.e. the employer publishing all of its worker's performance reviews, safety and attendence records? What is often ignored in this debate is why an employer would want to pay worker A differently than worker B. Some organizations may choose to simply grant pay increases based on "experience" (longevity within that company?) while others may choose to use prodictivity, education/training, attitude and better attendence as major factors.

If you wish to have the how much made public then why not accompany that with the employer stating the why so much as well? Moving toward a "fairness" pay system also is unfair to employers, that may see great benefit in paying thier "better" workers more, "average" workers no more and getting rid of "substandard" workers altogether.

Also related to this discussuion is why the gov't effectively does the same thing. Taxation for two workers, making exactly the same gross salary is different based upon how and upon who that income was later spent. Is it "fair" that worker A pays a different FIT amount than worker B when both "earn" the same amount of salary?
Click to expand...

Law has nothing to do with making anything public. It has to do with allowing people to discuss personal information if they choose. Your comparison is nothing alike.
 
MaggieD said:
It's obvious to me that, since the government is attempting to pass legislation in this regard, it's seen as advantageous to the worker. It would also seem to me that the government is trying to promote workplace unionization.

I had my first taste of this with an employee years ago. She found out "the new gal" made the same amount of money she did. She was furious. The new employee had ten years' experience in the field in which I hired her. The mad employee? I trained her on the job. She'd been with me three years. The idea that longevity buys more money is ludicrous, in my opinion.

The government has no business sticking their nose in employer policies and procedures. If an employer has a policy against sharing salary information, that's their right.
Click to expand...

LoLz! Allowing workers to discuss personal information if they choose is promoting unionization? Do you have any idea how revealing that is?
 
Helix said:
any employee should be able to reveal anything they want about their salary and benefits. if employers are currently preventing them from doing so, i absolutely support a law that removes their ability to do this.
Click to expand...

So you believe that the terms of a contract between two parties should be easily abrogated and you approve government doing so.

Do you also believe that the government should be able to abrogate the non-disclosure clauses of other contracts entered into freely by two or more parties? Should the government pass laws that abrograte non-disclosure of out of court settlements, as an example?
 
GottaGo said:
Looking at it from the employer end, and as others have already mentioned, people do not take into account experience, ability, initiative and willingness to learn when comparing wages. Rarely do two (or more) people have the absolute exact same qualifications. Someone who comes with more experience in the field versus some one fresh out of school (degree or not) who hasn't proven their worth yet shouldn't be making more than the one with experience based on those factors alone.

Some use the knowledge of what others make as a basis of what they should be making, an attempt to pressure the employer into paying them more. To me, and many employers, it is about the biggest disservice they can do to themselves.

Come to me with a list of your merits and accomplishments, and valid reasons why you should get a raise, and chances are I'd be willing to sit down and discuss it. Come to me whining about what someone else makes, and you've already lost before you've begun.
Click to expand...

See, you already solved any potential problems with employees sharing the information in your last paragraph. Well done!
 
Redress said:
Law has nothing to do with making anything public. It has to do with allowing people to discuss personal information if they choose. Your comparison is nothing alike.
Click to expand...

Do you also feel that a person's job function is as "personal" as the salary they receive for it?
 
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