Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade and Workers" (1 Viewer)

[Lafayette]

TRUMP, TRADE & WORKERS

Excerpt:

Donald Trump gave a speech on economic policy last week. Just about every factual assertion he made was wrong, but I’m not going to do a line-by-line critique. What I want to do, instead, is talk about the general thrust: the candidate’s claim to be on the side of American workers.

Of course, that’s what they all say. But Trumponomics goes beyond the usual Republican assertions that cutting taxes on corporations and the rich, ending environmental regulation and so on will conjure up the magic of the marketplace and make everyone prosper. It also involves posing as a populist, claiming that getting tough on foreigners and ripping up our trade agreements will bring back the well-paying jobs America has lost.

About globalization: There’s no question that rising imports, especially from China, have reduced the number of manufacturing jobs in America. One widely-cited paper estimates that China’s rise reduced U.S. manufacturing employment by around one million between 1999 and 2011. My own back-of-the-envelope calculation suggests that completely eliminating the U.S. trade deficit in manufactured goods would add about two million manufacturing jobs.

But America is a big place, and total employment exceeds 140 million. Shifting two million workers back into manufacturing would raise that sector’s share of employment back from around 10 percent to around 11.5 percent. To get some perspective: in 1979, on the eve of the great surge in inequality, manufacturing accounted for more than 20 percent of employment. In the 1960s it was more than 25 percent. I’m not sure when, exactly, Mr. Trump thinks America was great, but Trumponomics wouldn’t come close to bringing the old days back.

Trump is beating on the wrong drum, along with - unfortunately - a great many who think that the diminishing of the manufacturing value-component in our GDP is somehow a great catastrophe. What is true nonetheless is this:
*In terms of National Security let's get away from the notion that some foreign country will be invading the US. That is the imagination of cultists writing scenarios for Hollywood movies.
*Manufacturing must find its new-niche in terms of production capacity, and that is largely in 3D and robotics. The US must still build cars, that's not going to be any great problem. But, let's not expect either to have large numbers of people building such products. That just aint-gonna-happin.

So, what does a country do in such a situation? Three things:
*It invests the money necessary enhance worker-skills by means of advanced postsecondary degrees (vocational, 2- & 4-year). The cost of such must be free, gratis and for nothing. Or as close to that rule as possible. No child should be left behind, which is avoided by having the Federal government make an investment in their future well-being. It is a fundamental right.
*Retraining of that nature should be available to the unemployed at low-cost as well throughout their lifetime.
*Bring on universal Health Care such that our Total Cost of HealthCare is no longer at the hallucinatory level of two times that of the EU per capita. (Where HC-practitioners make damn fine salaries and the government runs the hospitals - not private companies.)
____________________

 

[Hawkeye10]

I am not going to burn a NYT look but I would like to point out that in KY 2 million manufacturing jobs would let gain us 5.5 million jobs total.

https://thinkkentucky.com/kyedc/pdfs/100jobs.pdf

Why not do it?

 

[Lafayette]

Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

TRUMP, TRADE & WORKERS

Excerpt:

Donald Trump gave a speech on economic policy last week. Just about every factual assertion he made was wrong, but I’m not going to do a line-by-line critique. What I want to do, instead, is talk about the general thrust: the candidate’s claim to be on the side of American workers.

Of course, that’s what they all say. But Trumponomics goes beyond the usual Republican assertions that cutting taxes on corporations and the rich, ending environmental regulation and so on will conjure up the magic of the marketplace and make everyone prosper. It also involves posing as a populist, claiming that getting tough on foreigners and ripping up our trade agreements will bring back the well-paying jobs America has lost.

About globalization: There’s no question that rising imports, especially from China, have reduced the number of manufacturing jobs in America. One widely-cited paper estimates that China’s rise reduced U.S. manufacturing employment by around one million between 1999 and 2011. My own back-of-the-envelope calculation suggests that completely eliminating the U.S. trade deficit in manufactured goods would add about two million manufacturing jobs.

But America is a big place, and total employment exceeds 140 million. Shifting two million workers back into manufacturing would raise that sector’s share of employment back from around 10 percent to around 11.5 percent. To get some perspective: in 1979, on the eve of the great surge in inequality, manufacturing accounted for more than 20 percent of employment. In the 1960s it was more than 25 percent. I’m not sure when, exactly, Mr. Trump thinks America was great, but Trumponomics wouldn’t come close to bringing the old days back.

Trump is beating on the wrong drum, along with - unfortunately - a great many who think that the diminishing of the manufacturing value-component in our GDP is somehow a great catastrophe. What is true nonetheless is this:
*In terms of National Security let's get away from the notion that some foreign country will be invading the US. That is the imagination of cultists writing scenarios for Hollywood movies.
*Manufacturing must find its new-niche in terms of production capacity, and that is largely in 3D and robotics. The US must still build cars, that's not going to be any great problem. But, let's not expect either to have large numbers of people building such products. That just aint-gonna-happin.

So, what does a country do in such a situation? Three things:
*It invests the money necessary enhance worker-skills by means of advanced postsecondary degrees (vocational, 2- & 4-year). The cost of such must be free, gratis and for nothing. Or as close to that rule as possible. No child should be left behind, which is avoided by having the Federal government make an investment in their future well-being. It is a fundamental right.
*Retraining of that nature should be available to the unemployed at low-cost as well throughout their lifetime.
*Bring on universal Health Care such that our Total Cost of HealthCare is no longer at the hallucinatory level of two-times that of the EU per-person. (Where HC-practitioners make damn fine salaries and the government runs the hospitals - not private companies.)
____________________

 

[TheGoverness]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

I think you may have accidentally posted two identical threads.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

Moderator's Warning:

Threads merged.

 

[joG]

I am not going to burn a NYT look but I would like to point out that in KY 2 million manufacturing jobs would let gain us 5.5 million jobs total.

https://thinkkentucky.com/kyedc/pdfs/100jobs.pdf

Why not do it?

That was only a once serious economist in his new incarnation of populist beating his own drum and an acolyte trying to use a piece of propaganda to convince people of a falsehood.

 

[Lafayette]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

I think you may have accidentally posted two identical threads.

I did, but in two different forums.

Not everyone reads the Economics Forum and it is not on the main page of this web-site. (At least I cannot find it there.)

And since it is about Trump, I thought is was applicable to the Presidential Election forum as well.

Am I forgiven ... ?
_________________

 

[TheGoverness]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

I did, but in two different forums.

Not everyone reads the Economics Forum and it is not on the main screen of this web-site. (At least I cannot find it there.)

Am I forgiven ... ?

No. You are NOT forgiven! (Just kidding. )

 

[joG]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

TRUMP, TRADE & WORKERS

Excerpt:

Trump is beating on the wrong drum, along with - unfortunately - a great many who think that the diminishing of the manufacturing value-component in our GDP is somehow a great catastrophe. What is true nonetheless is this:
*In terms of National Security let's get away from the notion that some foreign country will be invading the US. That is the imagination of cultists writing scenarios for Hollywood movies.
*Manufacturing must find its new-niche in terms of production capacity, and that is largely in 3D and robotics. The US must still build cars, that's not going to be any great problem. But, let's not expect either to have large numbers of people building such products. That just aint-gonna-happin.

So, what does a country do in such a situation? Three things:
*It invests the money necessary enhance worker-skills by means of advanced postsecondary degrees (vocational, 2- & 4-year). The cost of such must be free, gratis and for nothing. Or as close to that rule as possible. No child should be left behind, which is avoided by having the Federal government make an investment in their future well-being. It is a fundamental right.
*Retraining of that nature should be available to the unemployed at low-cost as well throughout their lifetime.
*Bring on universal Health Care such that our Total Cost of HealthCare is no longer at the hallucinatory level of two-times that of the EU per-person. (Where HC-practitioners make damn fine salaries and the government runs the hospitals - not private companies.)
____________________

Back at selling socialism and a dangerous national security approach to weaken the Country with the added thought thrown in that Americans spend a lot on health care? It sounds like someone that wants to harm the country.

 

[Lafayette]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

Back at selling socialism and a dangerous national security approach to weaken the Country with the added thought thrown in that Americans spend a lot on health care? It sounds like someone that wants to harm the country.

You've got blinkers on. Right-wing blinkers ...
_________________________

 

[Lafayette]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

No. You are NOT forgiven! (Just kidding. )

Aw, shucks ...

 

[joG]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

You've got blinkers on. Right-wing blinkers ...
_________________________

Anyone is in your opinion that admits that the social democratic project has foundered and that we were on the wrong track.

 

[Lafayette]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

Moderator's Warning:

Threads merged.

Why? What is the reason, or is it pure whimsy?

Or, rather, more sinister, are you practicing censorship, and thus contravening my freedom of speech?

Answer the question!!!!
-------------------------

 

[Lafayette]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

Anyone is in your opinion that admits that the social democratic project has foundered and that we were on the wrong track.

You have given no proof whatsoever of this accusation.

There are more than 500 million people living Social Democrat lives in Europe, which is a far more important advance in civilization than the Plutocrat-run Economy in the US.

Try to think beyond the three-mile limit, will you?
________________________________

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

Why? What is the reason, or is it pure whimsy?

Or, rather, more sinister, are you practicing censorship and thus contravening my freedom of speech?

Answer the question!!!!
-------------------------

Moderator's Warning:

1) Do NOT quote Mod boxes. There are very specific protocols to be used in order to comment on Moderation. Publicly is not one of them. 2) Do NOT start multiple IDENTICAL threads in multiple forums. That is spamming and can earn you an infraction. 3) Do NOT order me to do something. You won't like the result. 4) Learn what the word censorship means and what the concept of freedom of speech means. Neither of those apply here.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

You have given no proof whatsoever of this accusation.

There are more than 500 million people living Social Democrat lives in Europe, which is a far more important advance in civilization than the Plutocrat-run Economy in the US.

Try to think beyond the three-mile limit, will you?
________________________________

Europe isn't plutocrat? Then why do I continuously see posts with members complaining about bigwigs, rich people, and the political elite in the European forums that I browse, or the tabloids that I read? The USA has just about as much, or more social programs as any place in Europe. Just because we do not see healthcare in the same ways as the Euro's, doesn't mean that don't have many of the same social safety nets for the masses.

 

[Lafayette]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

Moderator's Warning:

1) Do NOT quote Mod boxes. There are very specific protocols to be used in order to comment on Moderation. Publicly is not one of them. 2) Do NOT start multiple IDENTICAL threads in multiple forums. That is spamming and can earn you an infraction. 3) Do NOT order me to do something. You won't like the result. 4) Learn what the word censorship means and what the concept of freedom of speech means. Neither of those apply here.

Wow!

Glad that we got that out in the open.

I thoroughly disagree, and any time you want that debated at a higher level than just yourself - do let me know!
_______________________

 

[Lafayette]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

SOCIAL PROGRAMS

Europe isn't plutocrat? Then why do I continuously see posts with members complaining about bigwigs, rich people, and the political elite in the European forums that I browse, or the tabloids that I read?

Freedom of speech ON THE INTERNET. Just like we are supposed to have in the US?

The USA has just about as much, or more social programs as any place in Europe.

My premise that the US is far, far behind in terms of Social Programs has been substantiated over time. For social-programs to be implemented you need the commitment of a Social Democrat party. Btw, know that they are not the only party in existence, there are also dominant parties of the Right. Merkel leads one of them. But, not even on the Right would they give-up on two central premises: The availability of a universal Health-Care System and free Tertiary Education.

Beyond those two items, they tend to differ greatly on economic-policy.

Here is a list of Social Democracies that have governed. Do find Uncle Sam on that list.

I'm waiting with bated breath ...

Just because we do not see healthcare in the same ways as the Euro's, doesn't mean that don't have many of the same social safety nets for the masses.

But, until ObamaCare, the US was myopic about HealthCare. That is, 16% of the population had none whatsoever! As regards Health Care, the US was a two-speed country. One for the rich whose private-insurance could afford it, and one for the poor and beyond-the-fringe without private-insurance. Who simply died for the lack of it. (And, good riddance! Wow!)

Said private-insurance was a profit-pump for one, two or three Insurance Companies depending upon the geography, which they carved up according to their whimsy in order not to have "too much competition".

On the contrary, Health Care and Free Tertiary Education are cornerstones of any Social Democracy because both tend to level the playing field. And by "playing field" I mean that the "game of a market-economy" has winners and losers and a whole range in between; but the playing-field is not lopsided with the "winners" all on the higher-ground, and the losers all below.

One of the primary measures of "fairness" in a nation is in terms of Income Disparity (between the very rich and the very poor). And on that score Uncle Sam is not doing at all well. The Replicants refused Hillary-care and will close down ObamaCare if they can get a presidential majority in Congress.

MY POINT

So, let's call it "work in progress", shall we? If the American people had the slightest notion of what Social Democracy means, the US would not have both chambers of Congress in the hands of the Replicants, having resulted from one of the weakest election turnouts in history in 2012. (See that history here.)

There is always hope of fundamental change, especially when that change has shown the enhancement of people lives as has happened elsewhere. I, frankly, could care less. There are about 200K Yanks who live in France permanently, and perhaps a million and a half throughout Europe. And because most of us are retired, we LOVE the HealthCare systems that take care of us ...

The US is not the center of the world anymore ...

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

SOCIAL PROGRAMS



Freedom of speech ON THE INTERNET. Just like we are supposed to have in the US?



My premise that the US is far, far behind in terms of Social Programs has been substantiated over time. For social-programs to be implemented you need the commitment of a Social Democrat party. Btw, know that they are not the only party in existence, there are also dominant parties of the Right. Merkel leads one of them. But, not even on the Right would they give-up on two central premises: The availability of a universal Health-Care System and free Tertiary Education.

Beyond those two items, they tend to differ greatly on economic-policy.

Here is a list of Social Democracies that have governed. Do find Uncle Sam on that list.

I'm waiting with bated breath ...



But, until ObamaCare, the US was myopic about HealthCare. That is, 16% of the population had none whatsoever! As regards Health Care, the US was a two-speed country. One for the rich whose private-insurance could afford it, and one for the poor and beyond-the-fringe without private-insurance. Who simply died for the lack of it. (And, good riddance! Wow!)

Said private-insurance was a profit-pump for one, two or three Insurance Companies depending upon the geography, which they carved up according to their whimsy in order not to have "too much competition".

On the contrary, Health Care and Free Tertiary Education are cornerstones of any Social Democracy because both tend to level the playing field. And by "playing field" I mean that the "game of a market-economy" has winners and losers and a whole range in between; but the playing-field is not lopsided with the "winners" all on the higher-ground, and the losers all below.

One of the primary measures of "fairness" in a nation is in terms of Income Disparity (between the very rich and the very poor). And on that score Uncle Sam is not doing at all well. The Replicants refused Hillary-care and will close down ObamaCare if they can get a presidential majority in Congress.

MY POINT

So, let's call it "work in progress", shall we? If the American people had the slightest notion of what Social Democracy means, the US would not have both chambers of Congress in the hands of the Replicants, having resulted from one of the weakest election turnouts in history in 2012. (See that history here.)

There is always hope of fundamental change, especially when that change has shown the enhancement of people lives as has happened elsewhere. I, frankly, could care less. There are about 200K Yanks who live in France permanently, and perhaps a million and a half throughout Europe. And because most of us are retired, we LOVE the HealthCare systems that take care of us ...

The US is not the center of the world anymore ...

Your are reaching the point of being considered full of crap.

Ahhhhhh....back to the fairness thingy? Freebies you mean?

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

Wow!

Glad that we got that out in the open.

I thoroughly disagree, and any time you want that debated at a higher level than just yourself - do let me know!
_______________________

:shock:

Let me be the first to wish you a wonderful life...outside of this forum.

Bye-bye.

 

[Mycroft]

Anyway... Are people still listening to Krugman? I thought that ended when he made a monumental fool of himself by trying to use economics to spin his adoration of Obama.

 

[joG]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

You have given no proof whatsoever of this accusation.

There are more than 500 million people living Social Democrat lives in Europe, which is a far more important advance in civilization than the Plutocrat-run Economy in the US.

Try to think beyond the three-mile limit, will you?
________________________________

Oh, but there have been links offered. But usually I would have left it to the reader to look up the topics under discussion to do some research and come back to falsify the hypothesis. I am an economist by profession and realize how difficult that would be. Nonetheless I have seen some really poor attempts you have made and do not really understand, how you would think that they would suffice.

PS: It is not an accusation. The problem is that you feel as though it were. And yes, 500 million Europeans live in various types of social democratic system. I know. I live there and have lived in a number of the countries. They are in different states of repair with some already bankrupt and others trying to make changes to avoid losing too much competitiveness due to the massive shift of income away from production.
I have also continuously checked the myths that social democrats level to justify their policies and gain votes by false comparisons to the US situation over the years. This is your tactic and it is just as false here as it is on German public TV.

 

[Lafayette]

Re: Paul Krugman - "Trump, Trade & Workers"

But usually I would have left it to the reader to look up the topics under discussion to do some research and come back to falsify the hypothesis.

Well, I suggest you expected wrong. It's tiresome belaboring the issue with you.

M... r... a...

Some people absolutely have to have the last word - it assures them that they were "right".

Go ahead - enjoy yours ...
____________________________

 

[DA60]

TRUMP, TRADE & WORKERS

Excerpt:

Trump is beating on the wrong drum, along with - unfortunately - a great many who think that the diminishing of the manufacturing value-component in our GDP is somehow a great catastrophe. What is true nonetheless is this:
*In terms of National Security let's get away from the notion that some foreign country will be invading the US. That is the imagination of cultists writing scenarios for Hollywood movies.
*Manufacturing must find its new-niche in terms of production capacity, and that is largely in 3D and robotics. The US must still build cars, that's not going to be any great problem. But, let's not expect either to have large numbers of people building such products. That just aint-gonna-happin.

So, what does a country do in such a situation? Three things:
*It invests the money necessary enhance worker-skills by means of advanced postsecondary degrees (vocational, 2- & 4-year). The cost of such must be free....
*Retraining of that nature should be available to the unemployed at low-cost as well throughout their lifetime.
*Bring on universal Health Care such that our Total Cost of HealthCare is no longer at the hallucinatory level of two times that of the EU per capita. (Where HC-practitioners make damn fine salaries and the government runs the hospitals - not private companies.)
____________________

Great - another call for moocher's paradise. Make all the moocher's problems go away without them having to lift a finger and don't tell them how much it costs because - being a mooch - they don't care.


First, free college. Ridiculous. So under your plan, an 18 year old can go to university and take Elizabethan Poetry for four years (with taxpayers paying for tuition/books/room/board), get a part time job for party money and have a great ole time with his/her other mooching friends. And then graduate with a TOTALLY useless degree...all at taxpayers cost. Brilliant.
And what if they keep changing their major's JUST so they can stay in school and continue with the free ride - all at taxpayer's expense? I went to university and most of the people I knew would do EXACTLY that because they had no idea what they wanted to do.l with their lives.
Bad idea. I could live with the government giving student loans to people for certain, practical, necessary degrees (the above ain't one of them). But not for any old thing and NEVER all expenses paid.

Second, re-training.
Another moocher's special. If you want to change profession's/vocation's - pay for it yourself. Why the heck should taxpayer's keep forking out money because some ding dong keeps picking jobs with no futures.
You want to change vocations and you need re-training? Take out a loan, go to school and get it. If you cannot get the loan, then your credit rating must be lousy, which is probably your own fault. Again, tough.
In this case, get the best job you can get (even flipping burgers), save like crazy and clean up your credit rating. Once you do, then go get re-training.
You can't/won't do this? Tough.

Free healthcare.
I am for free, full healthcare for all children. It's not their fault their parents are financially useless - why should they suffer?
Plus, I am for BASIC healthcare for all. And MAYBE even full healthcare for adults that take good care of themselves (fit, don't smoke/do recreational drugs/drink much alcohol or have a dangerous job/hobby) and pay for a yearly checkup to verify most/all of this. They would have to sign a promise they are staying clean. If they are found to have lied, they are charged with defrauding the government and could go to jail.
But I am totally against obese slobs getting triple bypass operations costing $150,000 (all at taxpayer expense) because they cannot stop eating donuts. You want full healthcare - then take great care of your body or forget it.

The bottom line is government is to help those who cannot help themselves. NOT make sure everyone is happy. That is NOT what government is for and I do not WANT that to be what government does.
That is socialistic nonsense and it is has no place in America, IMO.
It is not affordable (no matter what studies you people say prove's otherwise. They mean nothing. Real life proves that they are not possible financially without a huge burden on taxpayer's or massive national debt).
Plus, life is about taking responsibility for yourself and learning and working AND growing as a person. Not having Daddy/Mommy government look after you from cradle to crave.

The government should provide the basics of existence for all - food, shelter, BASIC healthcare/schooling, police/justice and that is about it.
The rest is up to you.
What you do with it is what life is about.

 

[DA60]

Paul Krugman lives in an ivory tower and has NOT A CLUE about the two world.

His solution to everything is 'more money, more money and more money'.

Forget the Nobel Prize...he has proven that he is - generally speaking - macroeconomic ignoramus.