• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Pat Robertson Threads

epr64

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
240
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Re: Will you condemn this?

GunsGodGlory said:
Pat Robertson has a radio show on which he states his personal opinion. Muslim extremists high jack a religion and use it to preach murder. Muslims can either condemn this or admit that they practice a religion that lends itself well to terrorism.
No way. Robertson is a Xian preacher, who uses TV and radio to preach murder. OBL and others are muslim preachers, who use mosques and TV to preach murder. What's the difference? Why one standard (he can say what he wants) for Xians (I should say US Xians) and another for muslims (send them back in the ME, or even kill them all or transform their country in a prking lot)?

Where's the logic? If you want to eradicate hatred, it should be hatred from both sides.

Y
 

epr64

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
240
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Re: Will you condemn this?

Ticomaya said:
Of course not. Do you?


Nonsense.

Now, I assume by "catholic extremist" you refer to Robertson? The first mistake in your thinking was to translate what he actually said to "calling for the US govt to kill" Chavez. This is what he actually said:
  • "You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it," Robertson said. "It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... and I don't think any oil shipments will stop."
You translate, "but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it" to calling on the US government to act and kill the man?

Robertson shouldn't have said what he did, but it is ridiculous to try and compare what he said and its effect, to the calls for violence against western interests by terrorist leaders. Although it strikes me that that's certainly the kind of thing a terrorist sympathizer would do.


Yes, if the head of a state calls for the assasination of our President, I will see a problem.


No, it's not. And it is you who obviously doesn't "see it."


Summary: It's OK to kill Chavez, not to kill Bush. The difference is that you support Bush, not Chavez, and that you support crazy religious preachers who call for murder in the name of their beliefs (non-religious beliefs, but they use religion to make the message go through).

YOU are the terrorist sympathiser. I hate all those who promote hatred and killings, while you're selective.

Y
 

epr64

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
240
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Re: Will you condemn this?

ShamMol said:
^There is a difference between preaching assasination and what Cindy is doing. If Pat Robertson had said God told him we must stay in Iraq-hey, I am all for his right to say that. I do not think he has the right to say we should assasinate a world leader. If I said that of say, President Bush, I would be in prison.

All that being said...I guess he has the fundamental right to say it, even if we should never say that about world leaders.
Of course, he has the right to say it. But condemnations should be issued for such hate speech.

What I see on this board (mainly from the right) is merely acceptation of what he said.

Double standards, anyone?

Y
 

epr64

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
240
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Re: Will you condemn this?

ShamMol said:
^There is a difference between preaching assasination and what Cindy is doing. If Pat Robertson had said God told him we must stay in Iraq-hey, I am all for his right to say that. I do not think he has the right to say we should assasinate a world leader. If I said that of say, President Bush, I would be in prison.

All that being said...I guess he has the fundamental right to say it, even if we should never say that about world leaders.
Of course, he has the right to say it. But condemnations should be issued for such hate speech.

What I see on this board (mainly from the right, at the notable exception of cnredd and gordontravels, but that was expected) is merely acceptation of what he said.

Double standards, anyone?

Y

PS: Mods, please delete the previous msg.. Why that 10 minutes delay for editing?
Y
 

epr64

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
240
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Well, at least, some GOP senators condemn Robertson's hate speech..

U.S. Senators Call Robertson's Incendiary Comments on Chavez Irresponsible

Aug. 23 (Bloomberg) '' U.S. Senators Norm Coleman and Mel Martinez called Robertson's statements ``irresponsible'' and ``incredibly stupid.''

`It was an incredibly stupid statement and has no reflection on reality,'' Coleman, the chairman of the Senate's Foreign Relations subcommittee on the western Hemisphere, told reporters while on a trip to Rio de Janeiro.

``This type of statement justifies the Venezuelan government's worry about preserving the life of its president,'' Rangel (Venezuelan Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel) said. ``President Bush said yesterday that his government rejects all forms of terrorism. The reaction of the U.S. to this presumably religious man will put to the test U.S. rhetoric.''

The whole article is here.

Y
 

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Judge Napolitano(FoxNews) just pulled something out which would be totally hysterical to see...

According to Tony Blair's push for legislation on "hate speech", Robertson would/could be arrested for what he said in the USA if he visited jolly 'ole England.:lol:
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
cnredd said:
According to Tony Blair's push for legislation on "hate speech", Robertson would/could be arrested for what he said in the USA if he visited jolly 'ole England.:lol:
I'll pitch in $20 for a plane ticket.
 

vergiss

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
2,356
Reaction score
1
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
There are crazy fundamentalist Christians. There are also crazy fundamentalist Muslims and Jews.

Well... duh. They're all as bad/stupid as each other.
 

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
10,320
Reaction score
2,115
Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Oh, great. Another stupid comment from Protestant Fundie-land.

OK, does Robertson have the right to say what he did? Yes. Anyone who says otherwise is against free speech.

Was it appropriate? Absolutely NOT!

Do I think Chavez is a horrible person? Yes, he is. However, for Robertson to advocate terrorism against President Chavez is the moral equivalent of what extremist Muslims are trying to do against the United States and other freedom loving people. If OBL is trying to hijack Islam with terrorism and terroristic threats, isn't that exactly what the likes of Robertson is doing?

Being Catholic, I sometimes have difficulty understanding Protestants, especially sects of the fundamentalist, sola scriptura variety. However, what part of "Thou shalt not murder" does this advocate (Robertson) of sola scripture NOT understand?
 

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
10,320
Reaction score
2,115
Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
freethought6t9 said:
I think perhaps the problem the left have with Pat Robertson is that he is a "Christian" on a "Christian" talk show advocating murder. He also blamed liberals and abortionists for 9/11 saying it was Gods punishment. Actually it was Ralph Reedbut it was followed by Robertson saying "I agree". He later distanced himself from the remarks saying he wasn't paying attention, but come on.

Actually, according to this article, it was Robertson with Jerry Fallwell, NOT Ralph Reed. Reed was too busy engineering the Republican Revolution that swept to power in Georgia in 2002 at that time.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050823/en_afp/usvenezuelareligion_050823221113
 

DivineComedy

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
2,231
Reaction score
129
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: Will you condemn this?

epr64 said:
We see a lot of message from the right on this board asking the muslims to condemn the extremist preaches.

I would also like to see the right condemn a appeal to murder from a lunatic US Xian..



The full article is here.

One could hope that the site was just a Xian-bashing one, but the story is also on USA Today and other sites.

Disgusting, if you want my opinion.

Y



Where did Pat Robertson call for taking the law into one’s own hands according to their “own Ideas” of justice, or say such people should be supported?

“Again we say that when someone feels that he is unjustly treated, and no one is repulsing or stopping the injustice inflicted on him, he personally seeks ways and means for lifting that justice. Of course, not everyone is capable of finding the best way for lifting the injustice inflicted on him. People resort to what they think is the best way according to their own ideas, and they are not all capable of reaching out for what is beyond what is available to arrive to the best idea or means.
To find the best way, after having found their way to God and His rights, those who are inflicted by injustice need not to be isolated from their natural milieu, or be ignored deliberately, or as a result of mis-appreciation, by the officials in this milieu. They should, rather, be reassured and helped to save themselves, and their surroundings.” (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.)

Saddam was not talking about Palestinians, as one poster suggested in other topic, because they are nether isolated or mis-appreciated by the milieu as the PLO Charter the Arab League support proves, he was talking about Al Quacka (condemned by the Arab League) and their Taliban surroundings.

If I heard Hugo Chavez leading a chant of “Death to America,” or found out that he sponsors international terrorism, I would agree that he needs to be “taken out” at the hands of a GOVERNMENT (preferably Venezuelan).

http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=home
 

KidRocks

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
1,337
Reaction score
16
Location
right here
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Batman said:
I'm not a fan of Robertson. But this guy should know that even negative press (or what he thought would be by putting the spotlight on Chavez with intimidation) sometimes works to the advantage of the one you're trying to bring down.

Death Threat May Bolster Chavez's Popularity Before Election


Serves him right, glad to hear it may backfire mightly on Pat Robertson. Now, the topping on the cake would be for Chavez to issue an assassination hit on Pat Robertson, that would be so rich!

Would actually be doing us all a great justice too!
 

dragonslayer

Counselor
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,856
Reaction score
139
Location
Pacific Northwest, Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Televangelist Calls for Chavez' Death
Aug 22 11:06 PM US/Eastern


VIRGINIA BEACH, Va.

Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson called on Monday for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, calling him a "terrific danger" to the United States.

Robertson, founder of the Christian Coalition of America and a former presidential candidate, said on "The 700 Club" it was the United States' duty to stop Chavez from making Venezuela a "launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism."

Chavez has emerged as one of the most outspoken critics of President Bush, accusing the United States of conspiring to topple his government and possibly backing plots to assassinate him. U.S. officials have called the accusations ridiculous.

"You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it," Robertson said. "It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... and I don't think any oil shipments will stop."
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Pat sees himself as wit, I see him as being half correct. Maybe we can get the half wit to call for Bush's resignation. then he would still be a halfwit, but
a politically correct half wit. Pat obviously has Alzheimers or some other degenerating disease.
Tis true Assasination is cheaper than war. How come Bush did not just assasinate Sadam?
 
Last edited:

Ticomaya

New member
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
28
Reaction score
0
Location
Right smack in the middle of the heartland
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
KidRocks said:
Serves him right, glad to hear it may backfire mightly on Pat Robertson. Now, the topping on the cake would be for Chavez to issue an assassination hit on Pat Robertson, that would be so rich!

Would actually be doing us all a great justice too!
But you don't hate him, right?
 

epr64

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
240
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Ticomaya said:
But you don't hate him, right?
No more than you love those that want all muslims nuked, or the washington post building bombed (or was that the NYT?).

Y
 

KidRocks

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
1,337
Reaction score
16
Location
right here
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
epr64 said:
No more than you love those that want all muslims nuked, or the washington post building bombed (or was that the NYT?).

Y

Good answer. It was the NY Times building.
 

epr64

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
240
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
cnredd said:
Judge Napolitano(FoxNews) just pulled something out which would be totally hysterical to see...

According to Tony Blair's push for legislation on "hate speech", Robertson would/could be arrested for what he said in the USA if he visited jolly 'ole England.:lol:
Definitely right.

The list, which the Home Office says is "indicative rather than exhaustive", will cover any foreign-born national "writing, producing, publishing or distributing material, public speaking including preaching, running a website; or using a position of responsibility such as teacher, community or youth leader to express views which foment, justify or glorify terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs; seek to provoke others to terrorist acts; foment other serious criminal activity or seek to provoke others to serious criminal acts; or foster hatred which might lead to inter-community violence in the UK."

Right on target. One less country where he could go for tourism. As far as business is concerned, he wasn't very welcome since quite a time.. :lol:

The Bank of Scotland has confirmed it is reviewing its links with the US evangelist Pat Robertson after he said Scotland was "a dark country" overrun by homosexuals.

The bank has come under increasing pressure to sever its business ties with Mr Robertson. It plans to launch a telephone banking operation in the United States with Robertson Financial Services.

Good ole Pat. He REALLY knows how to make friends, doesn't he?

CU
Y
 

Ticomaya

New member
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
28
Reaction score
0
Location
Right smack in the middle of the heartland
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
epr64 said:
No more than you love those that want all muslims nuked, or the washington post building bombed (or was that the NYT?).

Y
I say you're wrong, because I've said nothing about wanting all muslims nuked, nor do I want all muslims nuked, or the Grey Lady bombed.

But KR thinks it would be swell if Robertson was killed. Sounds like hate to me.
 

KidRocks

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
1,337
Reaction score
16
Location
right here
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Ticomaya said:
I say you're wrong, because I've said nothing about wanting all muslims nuked, nor do I want all muslims nuked, or the Grey Lady bombed.

But KR thinks it would be swell if Robertson was killed. Sounds like hate to me.

Not really, I don't hate Pat Robertson at all, in fact I find him and all this amusing. Yes, I would laugh my head off if Chavez put Robertson on his hit list. Wouldn't miss Pat at all! :lol:
 

walrus

Member
Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
191
Reaction score
15
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Re: Will you condemn this?

epr64 said:
We see a lot of message from the right on this board asking the muslims to condemn the extremist preaches.

I would also like to see the right condemn a appeal to murder from a lunatic US Xian..

Disgusting, if you want my opinion.

I certainly have no problem condemning what Robertson said. He is quite free to say it, but it was not a terribly bright thing for a person in his position to say. What bothers me is this idea some have that Robertson somehow represents Christianity. To the best of my knowledge, Robertson is nothing more than a TV personality and a failed presidential candidate. He is not in any way a representative of Christianity, or even a particular segment of Christianity. I do not know many Chrisitians who take him (or those of his ilk, like Falwell) seriously. It is very intolerant and close-minded (two things that liberals fear being percieved as like Superman fears kryptonite) to stereotype members of a group based on what one idiot says.

For the record, I have absolutely no problem with assasination myself. As someone already pointed out, it's cheaper than war.
 

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Re: Will you condemn this?

walrus said:
I certainly have no problem condemning what Robertson said. He is quite free to say it, but it was not a terribly bright thing for a person in his position to say. What bothers me is this idea some have that Robertson somehow represents Christianity. To the best of my knowledge, Robertson is nothing more than a TV personality and a failed presidential candidate. He is not in any way a representative of Christianity, or even a particular segment of Christianity. I do not know many Chrisitians who take him (or those of his ilk, like Falwell) seriously. It is very intolerant and close-minded (two things that liberals fear being percieved as like Superman fears kryptonite) to stereotype members of a group based on what one idiot says.

For the record, I have absolutely no problem with assasination myself. As someone already pointed out, it's cheaper than war.

I agree...Personally, he is to be condemned to the highest order...But I don't think good 'ol Pat is the spokesman for all of Christianity or for the Republican Party.

Pat has probably(I don't watch him) said many good things that drift into the night unnoticed by the media, yet when he says something stupid, the media immediately equates him with the Republican Party and Christianity.

If someone needs to point out that "Yes, there are fruitcakes on both sides, and Pat is a good example of one on the right", I will agree.

But to use this as an example of the right's thinking is incredibly shallow.

Look at the picture below...I don't go around asking liberals to defend it because I believe that most, if not very close to all, do not think like this.

Apparently, the right is not afforded that same consideration.

[URL=http://imageshack.us] [/URL]
 

SouthernDemocrat

Pragmatist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
23,823
Reaction score
14,866
Location
KC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Re: Will you condemn this?

walrus said:
I certainly have no problem condemning what Robertson said. He is quite free to say it, but it was not a terribly bright thing for a person in his position to say. What bothers me is this idea some have that Robertson somehow represents Christianity. To the best of my knowledge, Robertson is nothing more than a TV personality and a failed presidential candidate. He is not in any way a representative of Christianity, or even a particular segment of Christianity. I do not know many Chrisitians who take him (or those of his ilk, like Falwell) seriously. It is very intolerant and close-minded (two things that liberals fear being percieved as like Superman fears kryptonite) to stereotype members of a group based on what one idiot says.

For the record, I have absolutely no problem with assasination myself. As someone already pointed out, it's cheaper than war.

I think the problem is that Robertson does claim to represent Christianity. He also claims that the 700 Club has some 200 million viewers worldwide (which I find very, very, very difficult to believe). I don’t think that Robertson represents real Christianity at all. However, I do think he represents the far right’s blasphemous version of it. So while he doesn’t represent Christians like me at all, he does represent the “religious right”. The man has eaten dinner at the Whitehouse with President Bush on several occasions and his religious and political views are inline with a significant percentage of congressional and senate Republicans. Robertson and Tom Delay are in lockstep with each other.

You would think that prominent Republicans would have came forward and said that Robertson is a nut whose views are not only contrary to their views on faith and morality, but also are just plain un-American. Yet they don’t. During the nineties, Falwell and Robertson routinely claimed that then President Clinton was a murderer. In fact, they both promoted some right wing filth DVD about “The Clinton Murders”, yet our current president thinks nothing about having them over for dinner at the Whitehouse. I mean, the hypocrisy is unbelievable here.
 

jallman

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
36,913
Reaction score
11,282
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Re: Will you condemn this?

cnredd said:
I agree...Personally, he is to be condemned to the highest order...But I don't think good 'ol Pat is the spokesman for all of Christianity or for the Republican Party.

Pat has probably(I don't watch him) said many good things that drift into the night unnoticed by the media, yet when he says something stupid, the media immediately equates him with the Republican Party and Christianity.

If someone needs to point out that "Yes, there are fruitcakes on both sides, and Pat is a good example of one on the right", I will agree.

But to use this as an example of the right's thinking is incredibly shallow.

I definitely agree with you here Redd. If I may add one more thing concerning our muslim counterparts...See Pat Robertson...see Osama Bin Laden...see the correlation? Not all muslims are like Osama, and not all Christians are like Pat Robertson. Its just sad that the crazies like these two become the poster boys of the religion because of the inflammatory nature of what they say.

This may have been a bit off topic, but I thought it was worth bringing up.
 

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Re: Will you condemn this?

jallman said:
I definitely agree with you here Redd. If I may add one more thing concerning our muslim counterparts...See Pat Robertson...see Osama Bin Laden...see the correlation? Not all muslims are like Osama, and not all Christians are like Pat Robertson. Its just sad that the crazies like these two become the poster boys of the religion because of the inflammatory nature of what they say.

This may have been a bit off topic, but I thought it was worth bringing up.

And perfectly justifiable indeed...
 
Top Bottom