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Pat Condell talks about the mosque to be built near ground zero

SgtRock

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Once again Pat is spot on. here is a quote of Pat talking about the significance of building a mosque near ground zero.

The organization behind this scheme is called the Cordoba initiative and the building is to be called Cordoba House. And this is because Cordoba is the city in southern Spain where muslims built there first great mosque at the start of and as a symbol of thier conquest of Spain. The Ground Zero mosque is intended to servr the same purpose in America. Building mosques on conquered sacred ground is standard practice, its what Islam has always done to assert its supremacy and that is whats happening here.
YouTube - No mosque at Ground Zero
 
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Republic_Of_Public

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The news is almost as shocking as the atrocity itself. Apologists may say the people who attend the mosque won't be violent, but Islam itself is a deranged, psychotic and supremacist religion. The website PROPHET OF DOOM, amongst others, highlights many a link between Islam and Nazism.

When this dominating mosque is built (though they'll have a job to out-build the skyscrapers), how will American authorities ensure there'll be no extremist teachings? Channel Four, to the howl of Muslims (and rage of an Islamic top cop who brought a trumped-up legal charge against the station), broadcast TWO documentaries exposing terrorist teachings in mosques across the land. Including one fawned over by Tony Blair and endorsed by 'our' first Muslim Lord.

Will the US authorities hold the Saudi-based teachings in check? Or will they use other Islamic teachers, properly scrutinised and accountable just like everyone else has to be?

What's more, British media outlets have repeatedly uncovered startling information that up to 30% of 'our' Muslims want to inflict Sharia Law on the country at large and that decadent Western culture should be suppressed. An equivilent number have also sympathised with terrorists.

Condell is right - if Islam was set up today it would be banned as a hateful poitical ideology.


http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/73141-anti-islam-party-pro-nrw-germany.html
- That's how bad things are in Germany now!


http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...nbul-memory-1915-mass-killings-armenians.html
- So troubled and blinkered is Islam's 'cultural' past that it's supposed to be a special event when the likes of the Turks face up to past atrocities!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHyN_nhIk4A
- By their actions shall adherents of the 'Religion of Peace' be judged.


http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/73141-anti-islam-party-pro-nrw-germany-3.html
- Extremism is so ingrained that even 'moderate' Muslims advising the Government have terror links!


http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/70345-muslims-allowed-throw-shoes-cops-cultural-reasons.html
- Words fail me.. almost. (This last link is packed with other backlinks to previous exposes.)
 
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Republic_Of_Public

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Not that you can take your eyes off them for a minute....

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...ic-extremism-religion-peace-did-they-say.html


The Ground Zero mega-mosque will be a magnet for Islamic extremists worldwide. If it's possible for the likes of London's Finsbury Park mosque to be an arms cache, with many more used as hornets' nests to ferment outrage, then it's an extremely bad idea for this thing to run without constant state surveillance and entrapment operations.

So when New York is subjected to constant screeching from a minaret loudspeaker all day every day, hoodwinked Yanks can have a constant reminder of what to have on their minds at the ballot box.
 
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stinagen

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The news is almost as shocking as the atrocity itself. Apologists may say the people who attend the mosque won't be violent, but Islam itself is a deranged, psychotic and supremacist religion. The website PROPHET OF DOOM, amongst others, highlights many a link between Islam and Nazism.
All religions can be made to look "deranged, psychotic and supremacist religion" just look the Westboro Baptist Church and I believe that at least 50% of Christians want the 10 commandments to be displayed in courthouses.
just remember almost 30% of any group is radical and is illogical in their believes we cant discriminate ageist the other 70% due to the actions of the 30%
 

TripleAgent

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In 2001, a group of extremist Muslims hijacked four airplanes, destroying the World Trade Center and damaging the Pentagon.

In the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries, the actual organization of the Catholic Church embarked upon nine Crusades in the holy land. The religious zeal generated by these crusades led to the deaths of tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of people.

And other than that, the numerous inquisitions spearheaded by the Catholic Church led to numerous deaths, the suppression of free speech and liberty, and the ideals of the enlightenment.

If we look at history as a whole, the Catholic Church has been much more violent, deranged, and suppressive.

There are Catholic Churches in Jerusalem. Why not have a mosque in New York City? In the land of the free, do they not have the right?
 

mbig

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All religions can be made to look "deranged, psychotic and supremacist religion" just look the Westboro Baptist Church and I believe that at least 50% of Christians want the 10 commandments to be displayed in courthouses.
just remember almost 30% of any group is radical and is illogical in their believes we cant discriminate ageist the other 70% due to the actions of the 30%
Except one religion does indeed have an Inordinate problem with violence.
How many people have died in the name of Chistianity in the last year? 20 years?
People die EVERY single day at the hands of Radical Muslims/in the Name of Islam.
And we have the daily disingenuous and PC attempt at moral equivalence here just because someone can point to a few abortion clinic bombings a decade.

A Fundamentalist Christian is a missionary.. a Fundamentalist Muslim kills him.
 
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mbig

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In 2001, a group of extremist Muslims hijacked four airplanes, destroying the World Trade Center and damaging the Pentagon.

In the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries, the actual organization of the Catholic Church embarked upon nine Crusades in the holy land. The religious zeal generated by these crusades led to the deaths of tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of people.

And other than that, the numerous inquisitions spearheaded by the Catholic Church led to numerous deaths, the suppression of free speech and liberty, and the ideals of the enlightenment.

If we look at history as a whole, the Catholic Church has been much more violent, deranged, and suppressive.

There are Catholic Churches in Jerusalem. Why not have a mosque in New York City? In the land of the free, do they not have the right?
I think you not only need to look again, but Look at the last 500 years to be relevant and forthright;

Wanted: a Muslim Reformation
National Post (Canada)

Sept 26, 2003

No religion has a monopoly on violence. Christianity has the Spanish Inquisition and the bloody excesses of the Crusades...."

But it will Not do to take the Politically Correct course and Lump all Religions in the Same basket, at least not insofar as our own era is concerned.
Christian civilization underwent a Reformation in the 16th century, embraced the Enlightenment with its intellectual and theological pluralism, separated Church from State and encouraged scholarship and democracy. Judaism has followed a similar process -- as have, more recently, the faiths of the far East. Islam, on the other hand, is still struggling with this transition. And if there is to be peace in the Middle East and an end to terror worldwide, Muslims must accept that their faith is overdue for a doctrinal overhaul...."

"....Christianity still has its fanatical, bigoted elements. But those Christians who advocate the slaughter of non-believers make up an almost imperceptibly tiny fraction of the faithful. Much is made of the intolerant pronouncements of high-profile evangelists. A few deranged anti-abortion snipers aside, however, this is just talk. Even terrorists that claim to be part of the Christian world-- such as Spain's Basque extremists and America's Timothy McVeigh-- typically do not operate under any sort of religious aegis.

By contrast, a Large minority of the world's one billion Muslims still adhere to militant interpretations of their faith, including the Wahabi sect of Sunni Islam, centred in and spread by Saudi Arabia. These interpretations all embrace as a central tenet the duty of jihad -- which, despite whitewashing efforts in the West, continues to mean what it has meant since the 7th century: the slaughter or forced conversion of non-Muslim "infidels." With few exceptions -- such as old-school Palestinian terrorists who cling to Marxist rhetoric -- Muslim terrorist groups all explicitly take Islam as their inspiration. Osama bin Laden is a Hero to Hundreds of Millions of Muslims, and al-Qaeda continues to receive financing from a wide array of Muslim charities. Christians kill. Jews kill. Hindus kill. But no other faith group on the planet has embraced random slaughter in anything approaching the manner of radicalized Muslims.

The mainstream Arabic media is shot through with the most extreme sort of Hatred...
"Muslim advocacy organizations in the West, including Canada's own Canadian Islamic Congress, typically reject the claim that there is a problem with contemporary Islam, preferring to lay the world's problems at the feet of Israel and U.S. foreign policy.

Indeed, any Critical Scrutiny of their Religion is decried as "Bigotry"
..... But it is evident these commentators are putting pride of faith above Truth.
The celebrations in the Islamic world on Sept. 11, 2001...."

Original link expired, The full article can now be found here:

http://www.jewishtoronto.com/content_display.html?ArticleID=85448
 
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TripleAgent

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You speak as if every practitioner of Islam is a member of Al Qaeda. This is the propaganda fed to us by the American right. They breed an image of the enemy of the state that demonizes them, makes them seen as though they are less than human. Think I'm lying? Please look at the pictures in these links:

American propaganda during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Attack on a Caucasion Woman. Anonymous. Caricature.

Posters - World War I poster: Destroy This Mad Brute

Posters - No Time to Let Loose: It's a Fight to the Finish

Posters -Jap trap

and finally, and interesting little article here:

The Kaiser As The Beast Of Berlin: Race And The Animalizing Of German Ness In Early Hollywood's Advertising Imagery - Research and Read Books, Journals, Articles at Questia Online Library

Propaganda by the government is nothing new.

Back on topic, however, a number of Muslims in the Middle East are still very angry with the Western world. The question arises, why? Quite simply, the West has been nothing but trouble for the Middle East and the Muslim world ever since the beginning of the 20th Century. Some examples:

Anglo-Persian Oil Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Middle East Theatre of World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1953 Iranian coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would like to draw special attention to that last one, Operation Ajax, the coup supported by the West that overthrew a DEMOCRATICALLY elected government and installed an absolute dictator. Why? Oil. We were willing to take away the freedom of the people of Iran to save our oil. And you wonder why the Middle East hates us? You wonder why sects of Islam have been persecuted so much that they commit violent acts against the West, and even their countrymen who are against them? You wonder why the 1979 Iranian Revolution occurred? It is because we oppressed them in the first place. Khomeni is our fault. Ahmadinejad is our fault.
 

mbig

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You speak as if every practitioner of Islam is a member of Al Qaeda. This is the propaganda fed to us by the American right. They breed an image of the enemy of the state that demonizes them, makes them seen as though they are less than human. Think I'm lying? Please look at the pictures in these links:American propaganda during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaAttack on a Caucasion Woman. Anonymous. Caricature.Posters - World War I poster: Destroy This Mad BrutePosters - No Time to Let Loose: It's a Fight to theFinishPosters -Jap trapand finally, and interesting little article here:The Kaiser As The Beast Of Berlin: Race And The Animalizing Of German Ness In Early Hollywood's Advertising Imagery - Research and Read Books, Journals, Articles at Questia Online LibraryPropaganda by the government is nothing new.
Back on topic, however, a number of Muslims in the Middle East are still very angry with the Western world. The question arises, why? Quite simply, the West has been nothing but trouble for the Middle East and the Muslim world ever since the beginning of the 20th Century. Some examples:
Anglo-Persian Oil Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Middle East Theatre of World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1953 Iranian coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I would like to draw special attention to that last one, Operation Ajax, the coup supported by the West that overthrew a DEMOCRATICALLY elected government and installed an absolute dictator. Why? Oil. We were willing to take away the freedom of the people of Iran to save our oil. And you wonder why the Middle East hates us? You wonder why sects of Islam have been persecuted so much that they commit violent acts against the West, and even their countrymen who are against them? You wonder why the 1979 Iranian Revolution occurred? It is because we oppressed them in the first place. Khomeni is our fault. Ahmadinejad is our fault.
1. You're completely OFF topic of Islamic violence and ANY religous violence.
Ridiculously trying to compare WWII propaganda.
Beyond/beneath debate in never-never-land.
People are dying Every day all over the world in Peactime from... ISLAM.
It's no 5 year War. It's Everyday Islam.
Got it?

2. AND... Oh I KNOW. Everything is "our fault".
Third worlders and Islamics are mental Midgets/children who almost 60 years after the coup in question are executing gays and adulterers. Our fault of course!
But ...... somehow Non-Islamic Central and South America have recovered from even worse interference during the Cold War.
Planet Chomsky.
 
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TripleAgent

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So, do you believe that the West made the right decision to install the Shah, alienating millions of Iranians?

Middle Easterners aren't angry with the West for no reason. Deny responsibility all you want, you can't ignore the elephant in the room. Cause and effect. Cause and effect. Cause and effect.
 

Orion

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It's not being built on the WTC site, it's being built in the locale. If they own the property then it's their right to do so, no matter how tasteless it may be.

I don't care what kind of public outcry there is, you have no right to tell them they can't build a mosque there.
 

theangryamerican

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Why not have a mosque in New York City? In the land of the free, do they not have the right?
Would you mind if I built a shrine to Naziism over Auschwitz? Do I not have the right?

Just because something CAN be done, does not mean something SHOULD be done. Why bother inciting conflict for no real purpose?
 

TripleAgent

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That depends. Do you own the land that Auschwitz sits on? In that case, though I'm unfamiliar with the Polish land code, if you own a piece of land, it belongs to you and you can do whatever you want to it, so long as it does not physically harm others. That's freedom of expression, freedom of speech, and, in the mosque's case, freedom of religion. It might make people unhappy, but that doesn't really matter. What matters is the sovereignty of owned land.
 

mikhail

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All religions can be made to look "deranged, psychotic and supremacist religion" just look the Westboro Baptist Church and I believe that at least 50% of Christians want the 10 commandments to be displayed in courthouses.
just remember almost 30% of any group is radical and is illogical in their believes we cant discriminate ageist the other 70% due to the actions of the 30%
Yes but with political groups for example nobody has to pretend parts of their manifestos arent there.
 

mikhail

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That depends. Do you own the land that Auschwitz sits on? In that case, though I'm unfamiliar with the Polish land code, if you own a piece of land, it belongs to you and you can do whatever you want to it, so long as it does not physically harm others. That's freedom of expression, freedom of speech, and, in the mosque's case, freedom of religion. It might make people unhappy, but that doesn't really matter. What matters is the sovereignty of owned land.
I dont think he suggesting that it shouldnt be allowed more that people should acknowledge its an obvous insult.
 

Magill

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Christianity used to be just as bad, back before they were balanced by secular law. I shudder to think of what Christians would be like today without those laws and today's technology. Scary indeed.

I think the issue with Islam is that for too long they have allowed themselves to mix their politics and their religion. I think when most Muslims live in a country or are from a theocratic country, I think it has a bigger affect than many would like to admit.

I've read about this in a few places and even some Muslim leaders question on if this is a good idea, and to open it on 9/11. ugh. All emotions aside I think they should be allowed to build there because this is America. But with all of my emotions, and because I am an American, I wish they wouldn't.
 

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I'd like to compare the number of people who have been slaughtered by the sword by a Christian compared to the number of people killed by a suicide bomb by a Muslim.

I think this shouldn't be looked at as one single religion but religion as a whole, it's bad stuff people, bad stuff.
 

theangryamerican

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I'd like to compare the number of people who have been slaughtered by the sword by a Christian compared to the number of people killed by a suicide bomb by a Muslim.

I think this shouldn't be looked at as one single religion but religion as a whole, it's bad stuff people, bad stuff.
Interesting. Since you've decided to play that card...how many Christians do you think have died for no other reason than their faith?
 

Jetboogieman

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Pat Condell is a ****ing idiot, he had some good points at first, I use to listen to him all the time... but then alot of what he started to say was false, fear mongering rubbish.
 

Ahlevah

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In the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries, the actual organization of the Catholic Church embarked upon nine Crusades in the holy land. The religious zeal generated by these crusades led to the deaths of tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of people.

And other than that, the numerous inquisitions spearheaded by the Catholic Church led to numerous deaths, the suppression of free speech and liberty, and the ideals of the enlightenment.

If we look at history as a whole, the Catholic Church has been much more violent, deranged, and suppressive.
I think Americans are less concerned about the Crusades in the 11th, 12th, and 13th Centuries and more concerned about preserving their political freedom in the 21st Century. Where is the tradition in Islam that allows for things like free will and free inquiry? At least the Catholics can point to Thomas Aquinas and Roger Bacon and many of the great research universities of the world today, which can trace their roots to the Catholic orders and patrons who founded them.

There are Catholic Churches in Jerusalem. Why not have a mosque in New York City? In the land of the free, do they not have the right?
Jerusalem today is controlled by Israel. When the Jordanians occupied East Jerusalem, they weren't particularly inviting to Christians or Jews. Jewish religious sites were desecrated and every synagogue going back to the 13th Century was reduced to rubble. And how many Catholic churches are there in Saudi Arabia? Or, how many Christian churches are there in Saudi Arabia? In fact, how many non-Islamic religious facilities are there in Saudi Arabia? :confused: You can't even hand out a Bible there without being a criminal.

And why is it that America the "land of the free"? Is it thanks to Islam? No, it's thanks to people like John Locke, Voltaire, Montesquieu, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, and Francis Hutcheson, who all hailed from the Land of the Crusaders. Freedom to these men did not mean one could either do whatever he wanted or only what God told him to do through revelation. Because man has free will--the freedom to do "right" or "wrong," freedom comes with a price, namely a duty to respect the rights, freedoms, and sensibilities of others. That means Muslims need to understand that when the World Trade Center was destroyed and almost three thousand people lost their lives, something fundamental happened. That day, a little part of Manhattan became sacred, hallowed ground, and, unfairly or not, many Americans bristle at the thought of a mosque being built near that site. If Muslims can't understand that then let them imagine a Christian church near Masjid al-Haram.
 

mbig

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Interesting. Since you've decided to play that card...how many Christians do you think have died for no other reason than their faith?
You would have to specify time period.

But to be relevant and use say the last 50 years... I'd say Thousands/Tens of Thousands and possibly hundreds of thousands/Millions of Christians have died at the hands of Islam in the name of their religion.
If one would include not just the more obvious terrorist attacks but places like Indonesia (East Timor, Bali, The Moluccas, Sulawesi, etc), Nigeria, and of course Sudan (NIF govt) now on it's second Genocide, Darfur. The First Genocide of Christians and animists killing two Million and displacing twice that many.

I would ask how many Muslims have been killed in the Name of Christianity vs the Christians killed by Muslims. Please no random or other crime.. just 'Name of Religion' ones to be fair and germain.

and yet further, how many Muslims have been killed by Muslims, again not incidentally, but in the name of being a Shia vs a Sunni etc. IOW, 'Name of Religion' crimes only.
 
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DrunkenAsparagus

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I've heard a lot about suicide bombings, beheadings, and suppression of women. Now, how exactly is this organization connected with this?
 

mbig

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I've heard a lot about suicide bombings, beheadings, and suppression of women. Now, how exactly is this organization connected with this?
Except your question, isn't the only issue brought up by the OP.
It's whether it's an affront (even generally) to some to have a large mosque near where thousands of people were killed in the name of the faith that's building it.

No one has suggested this group is terroristic nor is the topic limited to that issue.
Nice try to stop the unforunate facts tho.

Similar issues would come up if Germany planned to build their embassy in Israel next to say, the Yad Vashem Museum.....
OR the Japanese their's, near the entrance to the 'Arizona Memorial' in Pearl Harbor.
 
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theangryamerican

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That depends. Do you own the land that Auschwitz sits on? In that case, though I'm unfamiliar with the Polish land code, if you own a piece of land, it belongs to you and you can do whatever you want to it, so long as it does not physically harm others. That's freedom of expression, freedom of speech, and, in the mosque's case, freedom of religion. It might make people unhappy, but that doesn't really matter. What matters is the sovereignty of owned land.
So as long as I have a claim to the land, there should be no problem with me building a memorial to the Golden Age of the Third Reich on top of the ovens at Auschwitz?

I'm just trying to make sure we're on the same page here.

After all, who would possibly get offended? There's no way that such a magnificent monument to genetic perfection could be construed as inciting violence or fostering hate, right?

Btw, your land is only your own until the government finds a better use for it. ;)
 

DrunkenAsparagus

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Except your question, isn't the only issue brought up by the OP.
It's whether it's an affront (even generally) to some to have a large mosque near where thousands of people were killed in the name of the faith that's building it.

No one has suggested this group is terroristic nor is the topic limited to that issue.
Nice try to stop the unforunate facts tho.

Similar issues would come up if Germany planned to build their embassy in Israel next to say, the Yad Vashem Museum.....
OR the Japanese their's, near the entrance to the 'Arizona Memorial' in Pearl Harbor.
Except Islam didn't take down the World Trade Center. The Cordoba Institute is in no way responsible for what happened that day, and should not have to carry the baggage.
 
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