[Part 2] A simple Yes or No with a short explanation.

Fantasea said:

Is the important thing how one learns? Or, merely the fact that one learns?Yes, that is true.I don't know of a school in which teachers are not willing to spend time, after class, to help kids along.

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Fantasea said:

Are all parents totally incapable of spending half an hour a day listening to a second or third grader read and helping him along?

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Fantasea said:

Check their biographies and you will find that quite a number have done just that.

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26 X World Champs said:

I used the word biblical to mean ABSOLUTE, unquestionable. It was not a religious reference, it was an analogy meaning that your claiming that your 'facts' are 100% correct so I used the word biblical to portray your statement since so many Republicans take the bible as ABSOLUTE FACT.

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I prefer to omit any references to religion in these discussions. It only muddies the water.

Taking drugs and smoking and drinking IS premeditated! How can it be anything but? The words you use, 'pre-meditated killing of a human child' are a typical RTLer ploy to use shock value to scare people.

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Examine the words. What is the intent and the result of an abortion? Is the abortion procedure the result of an accident?

Sorry to say that you can call a legal abortion anything you choose but I will never accept your argument, just as you will not accept my argument.

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I am always willing to change my point of view if one presents an argument which is based upon factual reasoning. Try it and see.

Dude, it goes way beyond that. If it didn't we wouldn't have a poverty line, would we? In your Fantasea world everyone who is unsuccessful is so due to their own mistakes, they had the same opportunities as the Bush's or Kennedy's did (I threw that in to be non-partisan )

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If they take an honest look, most people can see the effects on their lives that resulted from the forks they chose in the road of life.

Maybe you need to check into a slimy motel in a poor neighborhood for a month and see the degree of suffering that millions of Americans live in throughout their entire lives?

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A very wise person once observed, "You can take people out of a slum; but you can't take the slum out of some people."

Before you have a coronary over that one, think about it for a moment. What he was saying was that people have a responsibility for the condition of their lives. He was acknowledging that, strange as it may seem, there were then (and are still now) those, who for whatever reason, are not interested in making the effort required to improve their lot and are content to remain the level at which they find themselves.

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Fantasea said:

26 X World Champs said:

I prefer to omit any references to religion in these discussions. It only muddies the water.

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Do you know what an analogy is?

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26 X World Champs said:

What's in your water? Do you live in the USA? Not even the staunchest Republican, right winger or anyone else can believe the drivel you just wrote. Since you wrote you do not 'know of a school in which teachers are not willing to spend time' I again suugest to you, which I've done before, that you get your butt out of your home and go spend a month in any inner city school in any city in any poor neighborhood. Go see for yourself, because obviously there is no other way you'll ever get it. What you just wrote is so, I'm sorry, IGNORANT. Maybe you could have used some tutoring?

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May I suggest that you inquire of a few of your local schools to ask the 'horse', as it were, about what I wrote. You'll be in for a surprise

Do you have a secret book of Grimm's Fairy Tales that no one has ever seen? You need to step into the real world, not your personal theory world. Too many parents ARE incapable of reading daily with their kids for a myriad of reasons,

not to mention all the kids who don't have parents at all.

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Why is it that parents who are interested in the welfare of their children find it impossible to have second or third grade children read to them?

not to mention all the kids who don't have parents at all.

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Why shouldn't they be mentioned? Their needs are greater than the needs of most.

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26 X World Champs said:

Dude, here's something for you to ponder. If one in 100 achieve what you're suggesting that does not mean that it supersedes the 99 who didn't achieve it.

You keep clinging to the exception to the rule, and you ignore the rule. That is plain stupid, sorry. I'm not saying you're stupid, just what you're writing is stupid.

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26 X World Champs said:

Fantasea said:

Do you know what an analogy is?

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Go ahead; I know you're just dying to tell me.

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Fantasea said:

anomaly said:

Fantasea said:

anomaly said:

I while back I inquired as to the qualifications you possess that sets you on a footing to be able to reasonable refute the statements, in connection with various abortion arguments, of the experts in the fields of science, medicine, and genetics to whom I referred. To date you have offered no response.

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I simply gave a dictionary definition of parasite. Perhaps you should contact the website if you have a problem.

Fant said:

All you do is continue with baseless denials.In the US and in countries where capitalism is permitted to flourish, the overwhelming majority is successful. The degree of success achieved depends greatly on the degree of effort expended in pursuit of that success.

Again, you offer what you 'think'. I, on the other hand, show you concrete examples of achievement.

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Tell me, are you blind or do you simply not like to read? You want 'concrete evidence'? Is there anything more concrete than history? History will tell you that always the vast majority will suffer under capitalism. You give single success stories, which are, of course, rare, and then use that rare 'anomaly', shall we say, to prove your argument. I, on the other hand, have used groups, such as the peasants of Brazil, the Chiapa people's of Mexico, steelworkers of America etc. etc. to establish my critique. It amazes me, simply amazes me, to what lengths you go to deny simply economic reality. Capitalism has always been, and will always be, for and of the priveleged few. I suggest you start focusing on the virtues of capitalism, rather than obvious flaws. In capitalist countries, the majority is not successful. Quite the contrary to what you stated. China is now all but rid of the chains of dictator run socialism, and now are largely capitalist. Does the majority live comfortably there? Even in the USA, the majority live comfortably because of pressure from the state on companies (higher wages). When these companies are unregulated, as in latin America and Asia, we see suffering, we see entire families having to work, not to buy that big screen TV they've been wanting, but rather to buy food. The system you support requires this huge and ever expanding market to sell the continued surplus of goods created. It will inevitably stumble. Again, it is a crude, yet complex, system of putting wealth where some people say it belongs. That it puts wealth in the hands of the few has been the celebrated point of every pro-capitalist economist to date. Yet you disagree with even your comrades, you, in fact, are in baseless denial over the realities of the system you so cherish. Wake up, Fant. Even Gabo, perhaps the most pro-capitalist guy on this forum, admits that capitalism causes inequality, and has used that fact to establish his argument. You're behind the rest of the class, Fant, and you desperately need to catch up. You cannot catch up, however, with continuing to deny basic economic principles, and simple facts about capitalism, using phrases like "where capitalism is permitted to flourish, the overwhelming majority is successful". A strong case could be made that capitalism 'flourishes' in countries where regulation is very little or does not exist (laissez-faire policies), yet in these same countries, we see people suffering. It is time for you to recognize fact from fiction, as your repeated misstating of facts has you in a position where you must make 'baseless denial' in order to make your point. Your points, unlike most capitalists', are based on fiction. Wake up, as truth is staring you in the face.

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Fantasea said:

26 X World Champs said:

May I suggest that you inquire of a few of your local schools to ask the 'horse', as it were, about what I wrote. You'll be in for a surprise

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I have two children in Public School here in NYC. I am completely and thoroughly familiar with the system. A good friend is a elementary school principal here too.

Sure, some schools offer free after school tutoring (including my kid's high school). However, the MAJORITY of public schools in NYC do not offer after school tutoring, period. You can bluster all you want, but your silly generalizations only accent the absurdity of your position. Again, this is nothing against you personally, since I respect anyone who cares passionately about his beliefs. Nevertheless that passion that you exhibit does not make the gross inaccuracies that you profess OK.

For reasons only known to you, your posts seem to always contain statements that basically translate to "survival of the fittest." America is not about that, America is supposed to be about neighbor helping neighbor, not neighbor beating neighbor.

I'm curious Fantasea? Where do you live? Do you have any kids in public school? When was the last time you went into a poor neighborhood? Have you ever had any friends who had serious money or health issues without health insurance? Have you ever?

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26 X World Champs said:

Fantasea said:

I have two children in Public School here in NYC. I am completely and thoroughly familiar with the system. A good friend is a elementary school principal here too.

Sure, some schools offer free after school tutoring (including my kid's high school).

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Seems as if you are backing off your intransigent stance on the subject. That's good. It's a sign of progress.

However, the MAJORITY of public schools in NYC do not offer after school tutoring, period.

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I marvel that one can have so much absolute knowledge about the largest public school system in the nation; perhaps the world.

You can bluster all you want, but your silly generalizations only accent the absurdity of your position.

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I intended to be quite specific. Where did I err?

Again, this is nothing against you personally,

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I find great discomfort in a discussion of ideas in which one party believes that the inclusion of personalities is of import.

since I respect anyone who cares passionately about his beliefs.

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I'm glad that you confessed this. I never would have guessed.

Nevertheless that passion that you exhibit does not make the gross inaccuracies that you profess OK.

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Perhaps you'll be kind enough to specify a few of the 'gross inaccuracies' you have detected and explain.

For reasons only known to you, your posts seem to always contain statements that basically translate to "survival of the fittest."

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"Survival of the prepared" would be a better translation.

America is not about that, America is supposed to be about neighbor helping neighbor, not neighbor beating neighbor.

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Really?

I'm curious Fantasea? Where do you live? Do you have any kids in public school? When was the last time you went into a poor neighborhood? Have you ever had any friends who had serious money or health issues without health insurance? Have you ever?

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The details of my life are no more important in these discussions than the details of yours. Anecdotal details only get in the way.

In another thread my reply to one of your posts noted there is a school in the South Bronx that boasts 99% black and latino enrollment where 96% of the seniors go on to college. My question was why other schools don't come close to this.

Any idea?

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