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Pandering to Geezers

fraud in medicare is lots of money, no doubt. but compared to the unfunded liabilities? suggesting cleaning up fraud to help plug that hole is like sending my three year old and his plastic bucket to dig the panama canal.

We should be SCREAMING!!!! about Medicare fraud. Social Security fraud. Any and all of it.

To say it's like sending your three-year-old to dig the Panama Canal is, I don't know, ridiculous?

Medicare Fraud: Paying homeless people to come in for ridiculously unnecessary procedures; doctors performing myriad unnecessary surgeries; false pathology reports (skin cancer, in particular) causing unnecessary surgery; "conditions du jour" including things like sleep apnea and so much more...

Medicare Waste: Treating a 6-month-terminal illness aggressively to live, hold tight, 6 months. oldsters incessantly using ambulances and going to the emergency room for nonemergencies; unnecessary tests performed because we refuse to implement tort reform; our society's continuous refusal to accept that death is inevitable and that quality matters far more than quantity...

Social Security Fraud: Owners of Subchapter S corporations evading Social Security taxes; lawyers who make a living encouraging people to file false Social Security disability claims and a system that allows them to do it...

Our government's paultry attempt at cleaning up fraud in these areas is unconscienable. Put a bounty on the cheaters! Pay a reward of 15% of money saved through fraud discovery to all Federal employees responsible for uncovering these jerks and watch what happens. We would all be amazed.
 
So cutting benefits and doctors pay without stopping fraud makes sense?

no, stopping fraud does make sense. it's just nowhere near enough to solve the problem. throwing it out as the charge of "well mr politician what is your plan to fix entitlements" has sort of become a short hand for "well, mr news person, i'm not really going to focus on the issue and just sort of hope i'm not around when the merde hits the fan"
 
We should be SCREAMING!!!! about Medicare fraud. Social Security fraud. Any and all of it.

To say it's like sending your three-year-old to dig the Panama Canal is, I don't know, ridiculous?

that's a good point; my three year old probably has a chance of eventually completing the canal.

estimates vary, but my highly scientific method of going with the google search option that seemed to offer a middle-path gives me a result of an annual cost of $60 Billion in Medicare Fraud; which is by far and away the worst among the entitlements.

Medicare's undfunded liability? about $62 Trillion.


sooooo, we will for ease of my brain give medicare fraud an extra two billion, and factor.....


and if we were to magically solve 100% of Medicare Fraud overnight without spending a single dime on any fraud-reduction programs....


.... it would fix roughly one-tenth of one percent of the problem on an annual basis.
 
that's a good point; my three year old probably has a chance of eventually completing the canal.

estimates vary, but my highly scientific method of going with the google search option that seemed to offer a middle-path gives me a result of an annual cost of $60 Billion in Medicare Fraud; which is by far and away the worst among the entitlements.

Medicare's undfunded liability? about $62 Trillion.


sooooo, we will for ease of my brain give medicare fraud an extra two billion, and factor.....


and if we were to magically solve 100% of Medicare Fraud overnight without spending a single dime on any fraud-reduction programs....


.... it would fix roughly one-tenth of one percent of the problem on an annual basis.

So tens of billions of dollars is nothing? Obama wants to cut what doctors get which will mean doctors may stop accepting it or it will cause a doctor shortage. We must look at and fix all aspects of cost to try and make it an economically sound and effecient run program.
 
that's a good point; my three year old probably has a chance of eventually completing the canal.

estimates vary, but my highly scientific method of going with the google search option that seemed to offer a middle-path gives me a result of an annual cost of $60 Billion in Medicare Fraud; which is by far and away the worst among the entitlements.

Medicare's undfunded liability? about $62 Trillion.


sooooo, we will for ease of my brain give medicare fraud an extra two billion, and factor.....


and if we were to magically solve 100% of Medicare Fraud overnight without spending a single dime on any fraud-reduction programs....


.... it would fix roughly one-tenth of one percent of the problem on an annual basis.

And that is the attitude the perpetuates the fraud and helps it grow. First of all your estimate of the amount of fraud is just that, an estimate. You really, really cannot know until you actually agressively pursue the fraud. It isn't just about money it is about integrity, accountability and getting honest people the help they need. And it is about stemming the tide. It is a obligation to the people who pay taxes. It would create a lot of good will with the tax payers to know that the government truly cared about fairness rather than politics. It is a win if we break even because it creates jobs to manage the problem. The only reason to not pursue fraud in these many governments programs is laziness and political payoffs.
 
Interesting article. There is soooo much room for reform. I personally know of someone (I handled her estate) who passed away in January. She was enrolled in the taxpayer subsidized Medicare Advantage Plan and paid little, if anything, for her meds. Her estate was worth over $1 million. All of her money was kept in tax-free bonds and annuities -- which, apparently, aren't counted when figuring income.

If they'd just close the damn loopholes!!!!!

There's another way people avoid the means testing.
They simply transfer their assets to their kids and/or other family members.

It's that simple and it's a rip off.
 
that's a good point; my three year old probably has a chance of eventually completing the canal.

estimates vary, but my highly scientific method of going with the google search option that seemed to offer a middle-path gives me a result of an annual cost of $60 Billion in Medicare Fraud; which is by far and away the worst among the entitlements.

Medicare's undfunded liability? about $62 Trillion.


sooooo, we will for ease of my brain give medicare fraud an extra two billion, and factor.....


and if we were to magically solve 100% of Medicare Fraud overnight without spending a single dime on any fraud-reduction programs....


.... it would fix roughly one-tenth of one percent of the problem on an annual basis.

$62 Trillion? Your source please? Mine is Bloomberg as reported by Dartmouth: Medicare Spending Has Wide Regional Disparities, Study Finds - BusinessWeek $660 Billion if nothing is done before 2023.

Look, I agree with you that there's a massive funding problem. That does not in ANY way lessen the need to curb fraud with every ounce of strength we have. Unfortunately, Congress doesn't agree. WE should be furious. Right now, the Federal government doesn't even TRACK Medicare fraud. Medicare fraud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
$62 Trillion? Your source please? Mine is Bloomberg as reported by Dartmouth: Medicare Spending Has Wide Regional Disparities, Study Finds - BusinessWeek $660 Billion if nothing is done before 2023.

Look, I agree with you that there's a massive funding problem. That does not in ANY way lessen the need to curb fraud with every ounce of strength we have. Unfortunately, Congress doesn't agree. WE should be furious. Right now, the Federal government doesn't even TRACK Medicare fraud. Medicare fraud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He's using the long term numbers.
They are in the ball park of estimates.
 
He's using the long term numbers.
They are in the ball park of estimates.

How long term is "long term," for heaven's sake? Dartmouth's projections go out to 2023. Let him show a link, if he has one. $660 Billion versus $62 Trillion. Nah.
 
Yeah lets go after "The Greatest Generation" the people who without we might not be here..Lets take away the entitlements they have earned............

The greatest Generation received SS without ever having to pay in a dime. Fortunately, I can count on my fingers how many of them are still alive. So with such a small number of recipients, I wouldn't expect the cuts to amount to much. I'm guessing that the baby boomers are who we're really talking about.
 
There's another way people avoid the means testing.
They simply transfer their assets to their kids and/or other family members.

It's that simple and it's a rip off.

Means testing is usually INCOME, not assets, but once income is collected and accumulated in savings, it becomes an asset. I know people with lots of assets but low income who go for govt commodities handouts. They don't need it, but by golly it is free and they go stand in line. One neighbor in AZ gave me a jar of govt peanut butter, which I threw out. It tasted odd, and was made in INDIA for crying out loud. Why are we buying stuff from India to give to OUR POOR, doesn't India have poor of its own?
 
The greatest Generation received SS without ever having to pay in a dime. Fortunately, I can count on my fingers how many of them are still alive. So with such a small number of recipients, I wouldn't expect the cuts to amount to much. I'm guessing that the baby boomers are who we're really talking about.

Baby boomers were born 1946 to 1964, and I was born in 1946. Boomers are the offspring of the greatest generation, and haven't done much to have earned benefits like the greatest generation has. We did have Vietnam, but that is a pale comparison to WWII, not to mention unnecessary.

Actual warriors should get some benefits if needed, but I know some who abuse the system.
I get early SS, and Navy retirement, plus a small pension from my 2 civilian employers. It is more than enough to live on, but there is more. I have a wife getting early SS, and a good pension from the state of AZ. All totalled, we are doing well.

But, we did the work, lived within our means, paid for our own educations, paid for our children's education, and still saved a lot of money for our retirement.

The biggest difference between us and a lot of people is that we prepared for our future, instead of living too well in the present.

It is going to take suspension of employer pensions and reduction of SS payouts to get people to start thinking about saving for their future....

I know people who did not participate in employee savings accounts, even when the employer was kicking in 50%.
How stupid is that?
 
I've only been Paying IN to the system for 40 years. I'm not a full geezer quite yet, but I'm sure getting Geezish.

Why people would want to screw me over based upon their stupid age prejudice is beyond me.
 
as of 2008, according to that programs' trustees, medicares' unfunded liability was $74 trillion.

Appears we have dueling links, CPWill -- which is surely part of the problem....reports written in such legalese that we cannot make sense of them. Here's a link to the Trustees Report Summary for 2010 -- I think this supercedes a reference in a WSJ article. Trustees Report Summary

The projected date of HI Trust Fund exhaustion is 2029, 12 years later than in last year’s report, at which time dedicated revenues would be sufficient to pay 85 percent of HI costs.

Guess we can expect a Medicare tax increase. What a surprise.

Seriously, though, how is anyone supposed to make sense of YOUR link, this SSA link, any of it? We're being spun.
 
Baby boomers were born 1946 to 1964, and I was born in 1946. Boomers are the offspring of the greatest generation, and haven't done much to have earned benefits like the greatest generation has. We did have Vietnam, but that is a pale comparison to WWII, not to mention unnecessary.

Actual warriors should get some benefits if needed, but I know some who abuse the system.
I get early SS, and Navy retirement, plus a small pension from my 2 civilian employers. It is more than enough to live on, but there is more. I have a wife getting early SS, and a good pension from the state of AZ. All totalled, we are doing well.

But, we did the work, lived within our means, paid for our own educations, paid for our children's education, and still saved a lot of money for our retirement.

The biggest difference between us and a lot of people is that we prepared for our future, instead of living too well in the present.

It is going to take suspension of employer pensions and reduction of SS payouts to get people to start thinking about saving for their future....

I know people who did not participate in employee savings accounts, even when the employer was kicking in 50%.
How stupid is that?

One of the things that we did do was to pay for the retirement (the SS part) of the Greatest generation. But hey, blood, sweat, and tears can never measure up to fighting in the Big One.

And yes, people should take advantage of employer backed retirement plans to the fullest.
Do we still have those?
 
One of the things that we did do was to pay for the retirement (the SS part) of the Greatest generation. But hey, blood, sweat, and tears can never measure up to fighting in the Big One.

And yes, people should take advantage of employer backed retirement plans to the fullest.
Do we still have those?

Yes, we do, but they are bound to become extinct. There have been limiting sitings of small herds in a few remote liberal/socialist countries.
Joking aside, it is a good thing to do away with employer based benefits. They tie you to your job, make you timid and afraid to leave one job for another. Companies will drop all benefits in the near future, but will still expect the employee to be loyal to the company. That doesn't make sense, but there it is. They have the money and the power, but still, they need us, or at least some of us. There are still some jobs that they can't export to some Asian country on the other side of the world. And as long as we buy goods made by those companies, just to save a few bucks, we are digging our own graves.:shock:
Corporate types want us to worship at the altar of unbridled captitalism and offer up our blood and sweat so the elite can prosper.
We are gulled into believing that if the rich pay more taxes, the world as we know it will end. But that may be a good thing. We have had it too easy for too long. It might not be a happy new world for a time, but the dust will settle and we will have the govt we deserve.
We can no longer elect circus clowns and then ignore them til the next election cycle.
Ever wonder why our options for political positions tend to be a choice of tweedle dee and tweedle dumb, plus the occasional tweedle dumber?

Scared yet?

Take a look at current events in France. And then read up on the French Revolution. They may not be the best warriors, usually losing their wars, but they do know how to have a revolution, they do know how to treat their "elite". Or perhaps we can become like the British, tame, docile, compliant common folk who revere their royalty, and are not aware that their govt still sees them as serfs.:(
 
The greatest Generation received SS without ever having to pay in a dime. Fortunately, I can count on my fingers how many of them are still alive. So with such a small number of recipients, I wouldn't expect the cuts to amount to much. I'm guessing that the baby boomers are who we're really talking about.

yup. and since it was you people who saddled us with the debt that my children are currently slated to work until age 75 to pay off; i dont' feel sorry for you one bit.
 
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