Palestinian who lied about his religion sentenced to 18 months in jail

[Apocalypse]

No, he did not bargain to a charge of rape, he plea bargained from the charge of out and out rape and indecent assault to this rape by deception charge.

That's what I've meant to, he has pleaded guilty to a charge of rape, a charge of rape by deception and not, as you define it, "out and out rape and indecent assault", but still he has pleaded guilty for the charge of rape, leaving the judges no choice but to accept his confession.
His lawyers aren't going to receive many new cases in the future, it would seem, and hopefully he would be able to easily get out of it with an appeal.

 

[alexa]

That's what I've meant to, he has pleaded guilty to a charge of rape, a charge of rape by deception and not, as you define it, "out and out rape and indecent assault", but still he has pleaded guilty for the charge of rape, leaving the judges no choice but to accept his confession.
His lawyers aren't going to receive many new cases in the future, it would seem, and hopefully he would be able to easily get out of it with an appeal.

You don't get the point. He did not commit rape. He should never have been charged with rape. How can Israel charge people with rape when they have not commited rape?

 

[Apocalypse]

You don't get the point. He did not commit rape. He should never have been charged with rape. How can Israel charge people with rape when they have not commited rape?

Because according to the ****ed up law, the one that should be removed, he did commit rape, since the sex was done through deception and there is a law that says that if one deceives the other side in order to get them in bed he will be accused with rape.

You can only charge people with violations of existing laws, and in this case there was a clear violation of the existing law.
Now that the existing law should cease to exist was obvious long before this case came up, and the criticism should be directed towards the law and the lawyers (Both have law in them), not the judges who've simply done their job.

 

[alexa]

Because according to the ****ed up law, the one that should be removed, he did commit rape, since the sex was done through deception and there is a law that says that if one deceives the other side in order to get them in bed he will be accused with rape.

That is what I am saying you do not get. This man only pled guilty to this other charge because he was being charged with rape simply for having sex with a Jewish woman.

If he were not being charged with rape and the possibility of 16 years in prison (2 years of his life already having been lost) he would not have pled guilty to the lesser charge of deception.

Israel's judicial system believed it could charge this Arab with rape solely because he had consensual sex with a Jewish woman.

 

[Mira]

Because according to the ****ed up law, the one that should be removed, he did commit rape, since the sex was done through deception and there is a law that says that if one deceives the other side in order to get them in bed he will be accused with rape.

Yes according to the ****ed up law that should be removed, he should have been charged with sex done through deception because he lied about being a batchelor looking for a serious relationship. As for being Arab and not Jewish, SHE should have been charged with racism because lying about being Arab is not like hiding a highly contageous disease.

 

[Apocalypse]

Yes according to the ****ed up law that should be removed, he should have been charged with sex done through deception because he lied about being a batchelor looking for a serious relationship. As for being Arab and not Jewish, SHE should have been charged with racism because lying about being Arab is not like hiding a highly contageous disease.

I fully agree.

.

 

[Mira]

I fully agree.

.

whaaaaaa ??? YOU agree with MOI ??? I'm going to drink a glass of Arak for this LOL

 

[alexa]

Yes according to the ****ed up law that should be removed, he should have been charged with sex done through deception because he lied about being a batchelor looking for a serious relationship. As for being Arab and not Jewish, SHE should have been charged with racism because lying about being Arab is not like hiding a highly contageous disease.

What do you think about the fact that it was him himself who chose to plea guilty to deception as he was previously being charged with rape and indecent assault and he could get a lessor sentence on the deception charge.

 

[Apocalypse]

whaaaaaa ??? YOU agree with MOI ??? I'm going to drink a glass of Arak for this LOL

Just don't sleep with a sober man after that, or he'll be jailed for rape.

 

[Mira]

What do you think about the fact that it was him himself who chose to plea guilty to deception as he was previously being charged with rape and indecent assault and he could get a lessor sentence on the deception charge.

unfortunately, I didn't understand that part alexa

 

[Mira]

Just don't sleep with a sober man after that, or he'll be jailed for rape.

I only sleep with my cat these days

 

[Apocalypse]

I only sleep with my cat these days

I can't stand animals in my bed, you wake up with their hair all around you.

 

[alexa]

unfortunately, I didn't understand that part alexa

He was originally charged with rape and indecent assault for sleeping with the Jewish woman. He has spent two years under house arrest. Rape carries a sentence of 16 years. It appears his lawyer believed they would get a guilty verdict for this and so he put in this lesser plea of guilty of rape by deception so as to get a lessor sentence.

The deception charge was not the original charge. Rape and indecent assault were - nothing to do with deception.

 

[Mira]

He was originally charged with rape and indecent assault for sleeping with the Jewish woman. He has spent two years under house arrest. Rape carries a sentence of 16 years. It appears his lawyer believed they would get a guilty verdict for this and so he put in this lesser plea of guilty of rape by deception so as to get a lessor sentence.

The deception charge was not the original charge. Rape and indecent assault were - nothing to do with deception.

I think it's even more ****ed up than I had initially thought

 

[Apocalypse]

The deception charge was not the original charge. Rape and indecent assault were - nothing to do with deception.

alexa,

While the initial charge was rape and indecent assault, they were later on replaced with rape by deception, so I don't see your point here.
From the BBC:

Kashur was arrested and charged with rape and indecent assault, but the charges were later replaced by a different charge of "rape by deception".

 

[alexa]

alexa,

While the initial charge was rape and indecent assault, they were later on replaced with rape by deception, so I don't see your point here.
From the BBC:

Yes the original charge was rape and indecent assault and the plea bargaining was to get it reduced to the rape by deception one.

Why the change. Rape is a serious charge, in Israel I am sure as well as in the UK. We can see he has been treated as if he is charged with a serious crime as he had been under house arrest for two years with electronic tagging. His life has been totally devastated by this brief encounter.

My point is that as this apparently was consensul sex why was he charged with rape and indecent assault. - and don't tell me about the deception because that was the plea barganing.

 

[bub]

the law is the law and there is an actual law saying that deception is rape

Sometimes laws are wrong

 

[bub]

Israel is considered to be a Western country.

And by the way, the thread's title is misleading, the guy accused by the court was an Israeli-Arab not a Palestinian.

That's my personal opinion here but a country that occupies foreign land and that defines itself as a kind of theocracy ("jewish" land, or "catholic" land) is not a Western democracy

 

[kaya'08]

Well no, the map is actually speaking about countries that are defined as Western countries.
In order for a country to be defined as such, it needs to have a western economy, a western political structure and a western culture.
Israel applies for all of the above, being a liberal democracy, a member of the OECD with a prospering economy, and being directly derieved from a European culture.

Your picture is from the link "http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Westerncultures_map2.png"

Otherwise Japan would be highlighted too.

 

[Apocalypse]

Yes the original charge was rape and indecent assault and the plea bargaining was to get it reduced to the rape by deception one.

Absolutely no, the initial charges were rape and indecent assault, immediately after it was changed to rape by deception, and the plea bargain was a confession for the guiltiness in the charges, a confession in rape by deception.
It seems like you've somehow misunderstood it badly.

They have first charged the guy and then after getting information on the incident they have realized that the violation was of the deception law, changing the charges to rape by deception.
The plea bargain came quite a while later.

 

[Apocalypse]

That's my personal opinion here but a country that occupies foreign land and that defines itself as a kind of theocracy ("jewish" land, or "catholic" land) is not a Western democracy

Israel doesn't define itself as a theocracy, so this opinion is invalid.
Israel defines itself as a Jewish secular Democracy.
Jewish as in Jewish nationality, not Jewish as in Jewish religion.

Besides that, occupying "foreign" (it doesn't belong to any state) land is not a condition, and Britain and France were both Western during the colonialism age.
The US was also western during the Iraq war.

 

[Apocalypse]

Your picture is from the link "http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Westerncultures_map2.png"

Otherwise Japan would be highlighted too.

The description under that picture is:
"Dark Blue: Countries generally considered part of the Western World; Light blue: Countries which are sometimes considered part of the Western World"

It's true that Japan is not often considered Western due to its cultural distinction, but Israel is economically, politically and culturally fitting the standards of the Western world.
It's a liberal democracy and a prospering member of the OECD with a culture directly derieved from the European cultures.

 

[Apocalypse]

Sometimes laws are wrong

Duh.
That's what we're saying here.

But the rule of law enforces every law, you can't simply turn a blind eye to the law.
Right now I think the law should be removed, until then it will be enforced.

 

[Mira]

Israel doesn't define itself as a theocracy, so this opinion is invalid.
Israel defines itself as a Jewish secular Democracy.
Jewish as in Jewish nationality, not Jewish as in Jewish religion.

Besides that, occupying "foreign" (it doesn't belong to any state) land is not a condition, and Britain and France were both Western during the colonialism age.
The US was also western during the Iraq war.

Only Jews describe themselves as a nationality and I can understand why. (I remeber Mika-El giving a very convincing explanation to that)
Otherwise Judaism is one of the three monotheistic religions. Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
By calling Judaism a nationaily, you are saying that actually much of the people of the Middle East are Jews because the Bible and the Qoran came after the Old Testament.

sorry, back to the main topic.

 

[Apocalypse]

Only Jews describe themselves as a nationality and I can understand why. (I remeber Mika-El giving a very convincing explanation to that)

I don't get that part.
The term "Jew" is considered to be a term that applies to one of the Jewish nationality, one of the Jewish ethnicity or one of the Jewish religion.
From wikipedia:
Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

he Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים‎ "Yehudim" IPA: jɛhuːdiːm), also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation

Otherwise Judaism is one of the three monotheistic religions. Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Judaism, yes, "Jews" is not necessarily referring to those who follow Judaism, but also to those who come from the Jewish ethnicity or belong to the Jewish nationality.

By calling Judaism a nationaily

Never did that.
Jews =/= Judaism

you are saying that actually much of the people of the Middle East are Jews because the Bible and the Qoran came after the Old Testament.

Don't get that part either.