Palestinian who lied about his religion sentenced to 18 months in jail

[Arcana XV]

First of all there were 3 Judges and one of them said he should have been charged with fraud instead. Though the law suite itself was driven by racisem, I won't jump and say the ruling of the Judges is based on racisem. Such cases are usually backed up strongly by over-enthusiastic women's rights activists who find all sorts of law trickeries to promote their cases, no matter how ridiculous they are, reading the Israeli media I cannot find anyone who praises this ruling except for women rights activists. Also, as far as I understood he admited to the charges in a plea bargin so I'm not sure how much freedom that gives the Judges in their ruling.

Anyways the case will be disscused in the supreme court soon.

I don't really care how many judges there were, this case should have never made it to court, not for fraud, not for anything. I sincerely hope your Supreme Court will see that.
I am extremely enthusiastic about women's rights, even when it's not exactly popular or PC such as my opposition to burka bans in Western countries, but I am appalled at the level of dishonesty displayed by these activists. They give all of us a bad name. They're so blinded by their fanatic urge to "protect" women, they don't even realize they're stripping us all of our integrity. When I make a mistake and end up in bed with a jerk, especially if I don't take the time to get to know him before we do the nasty, I don't run to daddy government to have him punished for something that happened due to my own reckless behavior.

I'm also very glad to hear that Israeli society at large is as outraged as I am by this, I expected nothing less from a civilized country.

 

[ido_]

Well as someone who has always supported women's rights, I am kind of at a loss as to see what women's right women could say was taken away. Racial right yes, women's right, no.



Now if someone consents to sex on the basis of a a quick conversation, what the hell does it matter what the guy's name is? We have here a woman who has no compulsion about having sex at any opportunity, provided the person is a Jew. How on earth she found out about this quick encounter is not said, but it is racism, pure and simple and a man has been accused of rape because he is an Arab and not a Jew. That stinks.

My guess would be that the Supreme court will do something about it. Uri Avnery seems to believe your Supreme Court is the last hope for democracy in Israel.

You are barking on the wrong tree, I don't understand how her rights as a women are violated or how is this case has any connection to sexual offences.
But the fact is that the only people who prasie the court for its decision in the media are leaders of women's right groups, the head of the center of sexual attack victims for example, her comment was something like: he violated her right to choose if she wants to sleep with him or not by decieving her and that it doesn't matter what the lie was, if he was a jew who told her he is a millioner he should have been charged with rape as well.

I wonder what is Zehava Galon's view on this topic as a big supporter of Palestinian rights from one hand and an extreme women rights fighter from the other, she supported in the past other outrageous rullings on those issues

 

[alexa]

You are barking on the wrong tree, I don't understand how her rights as a women are violated or how is this case has any connection to sexual offences.
But the fact is that the only people who prasie the court for its decision in the media are leaders of women's right groups, the head of the center of sexual attack victims for example, her comment was something like: he violated her right to choose if she wants to sleep with him or not by decieving her and that it doesn't matter what the lie was, if he was a jew who told her he is a millioner he should have been charged with rape as well.

That is the obvious thing to say if you are being accused of racism. Of course I would need to ask if any similar cases have been brought.

It is obvious, absolutely obvious that if a person choses to have sex with someone they have only known for two minutes, they will not know who that person is. That is called not looking after yourself.

Her choice to have sex. Her choice not to find out who the man was. I have worked around sexism. This is insanity. I am not convinced it is anything other than racism because you have not told me of all the other five minute stands landing up in court, and by sins of omission at least I would imagine they are all rape.

I am also picking up in this way because what I am reading is suggesting the situation of arabs in Israel is getting worse. Uri Avnery believes that soon Israel will get rid of all the arabs from the Knesset.

I wonder what is Zehava Galon's view on this topic as a big supporter of Palestinian rights from one hand and an extreme women rights fighter from the other, she supported in the past other outrageous rullings on those issues

Well let me know. If Jewish women are going insane and becoming promiscuous and then blaming the men because they failed to get to know them and copious people are going to court for quickies with strangers and the men they entice are then being sent to jail for rape, then my apologies.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Lucky he was caught by the isrealies, I think in some muslim countries claiming to be an apostate is punishable by death or some such,

 

[bub]

Lucky he was caught by the isrealies, I think in some muslim countries claiming to be an apostate is punishable by death or some such,

If he had been in a Western country he would be free today

 

[Apocalypse]

If he had been in a Western country he would be free today

Israel is considered to be a Western country.

And by the way, the thread's title is misleading, the guy accused by the court was an Israeli-Arab not a Palestinian.

 

[Arcana XV]

Hee hee, I like this article. He impersonated a human. :

He impersonated a human - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

Sabbar Kashur wanted to be a person, a person like everybody else. But as luck would have it, he was born Palestinian. It happens. His chances of being accepted as a human being in Israel are nil. Married and a father of two, he wanted to work in Jerusalem, his city, and maybe also have an affair or a quickie on the side. That happens too.

He knew that he had no chance with the Jews, so he adopted another name for himself, Dudu. He didn't have curly hair, but he went by Dudu just the same. That's how everyone knew him. That's how you know a few other Arabs too: the car-wash guy you call Rafi, the stairwell cleaner who goes by Yossi, the supermarket deliveryman you know as Moshe

What's wrong? Is it only fearsome Shin Bet interrogators like "Capt. George" and "Abu Faraj" who are allowed to adopt names from other peoples? Are only Israelis who emigrate allowed to invent new identities? Only the Yossi from Hadera who became Joe in Miami, the Avraham from Bat Yam who became Abe in Los Angeles.

No longer a youth, Sabbar/Dudu worked as a deliveryman for a lawyer's office, rode his scooter around Jerusalem and delivered documents, affidavits and sworn testimonies, swearing to everyone that he was Dudu. Two years ago he met a woman by chance. Nice to meet you, my name is Dudu. He claims that she came on to him, but let's leave the details aside. Soon enough they went where they went and what happened happened, all by consent of the parties concerned. One fine day, a month and a half after an afternoon quickie, he was summoned to the police on suspicion of rape.

 

[alexa]

Hee hee, I like this article. He impersonated a human. :

He impersonated a human - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

My God, from your article, he has already been under house arrest for two years.

 

[Arcana XV]

My God, from your article, he has already been under house arrest for two years.

It boggles the mind, huh? It makes me sick to think that actual rapists often don't get even half that sentence. This case makes a mockery of real rape cases and is an insult to real rape survivors.

 

[Laila]

After striking up a conversation, the two went into a top-floor room of a nearby office-block and engaged in a sexual encounter, after which Mr Kashur left before the woman had a chance to get dressed. It was only later that she discovered Mr Kashur's true racial background, lawyers said.

When I first read that part my first thought was what a little slut.
She opens up her legs after one conversation and what? seems surprised that the guy took up on her offer?
Maybe she should vet those who she wants to sleep with next time for longer than 5 minutes instead of using her racism to go after the guy.

Wow. This would never happen in UK. The Judge would be burnt alive at the stake

If a woman sleeps with a guy because he lies about his job to give the impression that he earns alot of money and a woman acts on this information to agree to sex, if he is jailed for rape should she not also be jailed for prostitution?
Well I fully expect Israel's prison population to rise after this. :lamo

 

[kaya'08]

Israel is considered to be a Western country.

And by the way, the thread's title is misleading, the guy accused by the court was an Israeli-Arab not a Palestinian.

He mean't actual western country. It has a deeper political/economical/geographical meaning then the one defined to include Israel and South America.

 

[Apocalypse]

I've just read a response from one of the judicial officials to the criticism that was aimed towards the three judges that ruled over the guy's case, that really sets things into perspectives and has made me reexamine my opinion about their decision.

Apparently the Israeli-Arab, a married man, has engaged in sexual intercourse with this woman under the claim that he was a Jewish bachelor, a single man looking for a long-standing relationship with her. (Which is kinda hilarious considering how fast the female has let him into her bed)
About one month and a half later, the female has filed charges against the man, claiming that she wouldn't have agreed to have sex with him if she'd have known he's a married Arab man looking for a one-night stand with her.

The actual problem, according to this judicial official, that has led to this controversial ruling, was the fact that the accused man has settled for a plea bargain, and has given a confession. The judicial system is not involved in the negotiations, the plea bargain, and the judges could only accept the confession and make the ruling in accordance with the law.

To quote the judicial official; "We must emphasize that the court was not required to reach a decision on the case, but has only accepted the defendant's confession after a few corrections of certain facts in the indictment by the persecution. The court is not involved in the negotiations for a plea bargain, and it's important that the public would realize that".

The official goes on to say that "After the plea bargain, as it was agreed on between the two parties, was filed and Cashuar's confession on rape was handed, the meaning of his confession was well-explained to him by the court and he was told that the maximal punishment for rape is 16 years and the minimal is 4 years."

In other words, this judicial official says that the fault and criticism from the public should be directed towards those who have agreed on that plea deal, and not on the judges who could only accept his confession and act in accordance with the law, as far as the law is concerned.

I personally think that this law should be removed from the face of Earth, with no relation to this specific case. It is one of those bra-burning lesbians laws that only seeks to empower the "weakened" female gender, as if they don't already rule the world abusing the human past.
It's like the law that says that if a man sleeps with a drunk woman he's raping her. (and it doesn't work the other way around)
Actually, if I'm not wrong, there is a law that states that if a drunk male sleeps with a drunk female he might be accused with rape as well.

On other news, and in the same theme, minister Limor Livnat has stated that she would vote against the adding of two new members to the Turkel committee, after it was declared that the two added members would be males, making it a committee of 7 male individuals.
She says that she finds the fact that there is no woman in that committee to be a discrimination against the female gender.

Here's the article:
Minister Livnat: Turkel's request chauvinistic - Israel News, Ynetnews

 

[Apocalypse]

He mean't actual western country. It has a deeper political/economical/geographical meaning then the one defined to include Israel and South America.

I know all of the categories that are required for a nation to be considered Western, and as far as I can recall, while South Africa and both South and Central America may not fit them all, Israel does fits them all.
That's why Israel in this map is in dark blue, unlike the other three.

 

[kaya'08]

I know all of the categories that are required for a nation to be considered Western, and as far as I can recall, while South Africa and both South and Central America may not fit them all, Israel does fits them all.
That's why Israel in this map is in dark blue, unlike the other three.

No, that map highlights countries with Western cultures. Since Israel has a Western Democracy (somewhat), the core values are exactly the same.

 

[Apocalypse]

No, that map highlights countries with Western cultures. Since Israel has a Western Democracy (somewhat), the core values are exactly the same.

Well no, the map is actually speaking about countries that are defined as Western countries.
In order for a country to be defined as such, it needs to have a western economy, a western political structure and a western culture.
Israel applies for all of the above, being a liberal democracy, a member of the OECD with a prospering economy, and being directly derieved from a European culture.

 

[alexa]

I've just read a response from one of the judicial officials to the criticism that was aimed towards the three judges that ruled over the guy's case, that really sets things into perspectives and has made me reexamine my opinion about their decision.

Apparently the Israeli-Arab, a married man, has engaged in sexual intercourse with this woman under the claim that he was a Jewish bachelor, a single man looking for a long-standing relationship with her. (Which is kinda hilarious considering how fast the female has let him into her bed)
About one month and a half later, the female has filed charges against the man, claiming that she wouldn't have agreed to have sex with him if she'd have known he's a married Arab man looking for a one-night stand with her.

The actual problem, according to this judicial official, that has led to this controversial ruling, was the fact that the accused man has settled for a plea bargain, and has given a confession. The judicial system is not involved in the negotiations, the plea bargain, and the judges could only accept the confession and make the ruling in accordance with the law.

To quote the judicial official; "We must emphasize that the court was not required to reach a decision on the case, but has only accepted the defendant's confession after a few corrections of certain facts in the indictment by the persecution. The court is not involved in the negotiations for a plea bargain, and it's important that the public would realize that".

The official goes on to say that "After the plea bargain, as it was agreed on between the two parties, was filed and Cashuar's confession on rape was handed, the meaning of his confession was well-explained to him by the court and he was told that the maximal punishment for rape is 16 years and the minimal is 4 years."

In other words, this judicial official says that the fault and criticism from the public should be directed towards those who have agreed on that plea deal, and not on the judges who could only accept his confession and act in accordance with the law, as far as the law is concerned.

I personally think that this law should be removed from the face of Earth, with no relation to this specific case. It is one of those bra-burning lesbians laws that only seeks to empower the "weakened" female gender, as if they don't already rule the world abusing the human past.
It's like the law that says that if a man sleeps with a drunk woman he's raping her. (and it doesn't work the other way around)
Actually, if I'm not wrong, there is a law that states that if a drunk male sleeps with a drunk female he might be accused with rape as well.

I am sorry apocalypse but for this man to plea bargain he has had to have first been accused of rape. It sounds like after 2 years house arrest and the possibility of spending 16 years in prison for a crime he did not commit, he was convinced he would be found guilty of the crime he did not commit and should never have been charged with.

This is not the same as any other situation I have ever heard about except black men sleeping with white women in the US.

 

[Apocalypse]

I am sorry apocalypse but for this man to plea bargain he has had to have first been accused of rape.

He has had to be charged with rape, not accused with rape.

It sounds like after 2 years house arrest and the possibility of spending 16 years in prison for a crime he did not commit, he was convinced he would be found guilty of the crime he did not commit and should never have been charged with.

Yes, that's where his lawyers have horribly failed him. The judges however are not in control of such decisions and are not involved in the negotiations for a plea bargain.
I was also blaming the judges until I've heard of the plea bargain, there's not much they could legally do.

 

[alexa]

He has had to be charged with rape, not accused with rape.

That is what I meant

Yes, that's where his lawyers have horribly failed him. The judges however are not in control of such decisions and are not involved in the negotiations for a plea bargain.
I was also blaming the judges until I've heard of the plea bargain, there's not much they could legally do.

He should never have been charged. That we know. He did not commit rape.

The rest we do not know. As I have said he was under house arrest for two years. It really is of secondary importance what his legal team advised. This case should never have come to court and this man should not have been charged and under house arrest for two years, never mind now being in prison.

 

[Apocalypse]

That is what I meant

Okay.

He should never have been charged. That we know. He did not commit rape.

And I think that every sane person who doesn't burn bras in his free time would agree with you here, but the law is the law and there is an actual law saying that deception is rape, meaning that people who deceive in order to get sex can be charged for it.
I'm all in for removing this law, and not only this law but also the law that says that a drunk male having sex with a drunk female can be accused with rape.

The rest we do not know about. As I have said he was under house arrest for two years. It really is of secondary importance what his legal team advised. This case should never have come to court and this man should not have been under house arrest for two years, never mind now being in prison.

He can appeal to the court, and if he isn't stupid I think he would.
While this man is no angel (he has cheated on his wife, and he's apparently a Muslim, that's a death-penalty in Saudi Arabia lol), he does not deserve this fate.

Edit: Ah, actually I don't think they execute married males for sleeping with other women. However I'm 100% certain that apostasy is punished with death.

 

[alexa]

Okay.

And I think that every sane person who doesn't burn bras in his free time would agree with you here, but the law is the law and there is an actual law saying that deception is rape, meaning that people who deceive in order to get sex can be charged for it.

He was charged with rape and indecent assault. That is what he was charged with and you know it. The plea bargain was to take it down to the deception thing

When the woman found out he was not a Jew but an Arab, she filed a police complaint that led to him being charged with rape and indecent assault. He later pleaded guilty to a charge of rape by deception as part of a plea deal.

Arab Man Who Posed as Jew For Sex Will Appeal Rape Sentence
Nothing to do with any strange laws, just to do with charging Arabs with rape if they have casual sex with Jews without first screaming they are Arabs.

 

[Arcana XV]

I've just read a response from one of the judicial officials to the criticism that was aimed towards the three judges that ruled over the guy's case, that really sets things into perspectives and has made me reexamine my opinion about their decision.

Apparently the Israeli-Arab, a married man, has engaged in sexual intercourse with this woman under the claim that he was a Jewish bachelor, a single man looking for a long-standing relationship with her. (Which is kinda hilarious considering how fast the female has let him into her bed)
About one month and a half later, the female has filed charges against the man, claiming that she wouldn't have agreed to have sex with him if she'd have known he's a married Arab man looking for a one-night stand with her.

The actual problem, according to this judicial official, that has led to this controversial ruling, was the fact that the accused man has settled for a plea bargain, and has given a confession. The judicial system is not involved in the negotiations, the plea bargain, and the judges could only accept the confession and make the ruling in accordance with the law.

To quote the judicial official; "We must emphasize that the court was not required to reach a decision on the case, but has only accepted the defendant's confession after a few corrections of certain facts in the indictment by the persecution. The court is not involved in the negotiations for a plea bargain, and it's important that the public would realize that".

The official goes on to say that "After the plea bargain, as it was agreed on between the two parties, was filed and Cashuar's confession on rape was handed, the meaning of his confession was well-explained to him by the court and he was told that the maximal punishment for rape is 16 years and the minimal is 4 years."

In other words, this judicial official says that the fault and criticism from the public should be directed towards those who have agreed on that plea deal, and not on the judges who could only accept his confession and act in accordance with the law, as far as the law is concerned.

I personally think that this law should be removed from the face of Earth, with no relation to this specific case. It is one of those bra-burning lesbians laws that only seeks to empower the "weakened" female gender, as if they don't already rule the world abusing the human past.
It's like the law that says that if a man sleeps with a drunk woman he's raping her. (and it doesn't work the other way around)
Actually, if I'm not wrong, there is a law that states that if a drunk male sleeps with a drunk female he might be accused with rape as well.

On other news, and in the same theme, minister Limor Livnat has stated that she would vote against the adding of two new members to the Turkel committee, after it was declared that the two added members would be males, making it a committee of 7 male individuals.
She says that she finds the fact that there is no woman in that committee to be a discrimination against the female gender.

Here's the article:
Minister Livnat: Turkel's request chauvinistic - Israel News, Ynetnews

Okay, I can see how the judges' hands were tied because of the plea bargain. The real ****ups here are the lawyers who advised him to take the plea.

I mostly agree with what you say here, except with the "drunk woman being raped" issue. I think that is a tricky one. A woman under the influence of alcohol or drugs is not fully able to consent. Sometimes she's so far gone she's totally unable to consent. I don't think anyone should risk having sex with anyone unless they are fully and completely sober and able to clearly consent to the act. There are too many cases out there of women whose drinks were spiked with drugs and then taken advantage of.

 

[Apocalypse]

He was accused of rape. That is what he was accused of and you know it. The plea bargain was to take it down to the deception thing

Once more, I'm guessing you mean charged, and I did say that he was charged with rape.
However he was only accused with rape after the confession was handed as a result of the plea bargain, how can he be accused with rape before the plea bargain?
The plea bargain was that he would confess for the act of rape and then get only 18 months while the minimum punishment is 4 years.

Arab Man Who Posed as Jew For Sex Will Appeal Rape Sentence
Nothing to do with any strange laws, just to do with charging Arabs rape if they have casual sex with Jews without first screaming they are Arabs.

That's exactly what I said, he has pleaded guilty to a charge of rape, that was a horrible mistake and an appeal would most likely get him out of that mess.
Your source is also not mentioning that the deception was stated as "pretending to be a Jewish bachelor interested in a long-standing and serious relationship with the woman", while in truth he was a married Muslim man interested in a one-night stand with the woman.

 

[Apocalypse]

I mostly agree with what you say here, except with the "drunk woman being raped" issue. I think that is a tricky one. A woman under the influence of alcohol or drugs is not fully able to consent. Sometimes she's so far gone she's totally unable to consent. I don't think anyone should risk having sex with anyone unless they are fully and completely sober and able to clearly consent to the act. There are too many cases out there of women whose drinks were spiked with drugs and then taken advantage of.

That's not what I've meant, perhaps I didn't explain myself properly, my issue is with the fact that the law is one-sided and only works for a male and a drunk female.
A female having sex with a drunk male is not to be accused with rape according to the law, and by all means, that's a sexist law.

 

[Arcana XV]

That's not what I've meant, perhaps I didn't explain myself properly, my issue is with the fact that the law is one-sided and only works for a male and a drunk female.
A female having sex with a drunk male is not to be accused with rape according to the law, and by all means, that's a sexist law.

Ah. In that case we agree completely.

 

[alexa]

That's exactly what I said, he has pleaded guilty to a charge of rape, that was a horrible mistake and an appeal would most likely get him out of that mess.
Your source is also not mentioning that the deception was stated as "pretending to be a Jewish bachelor interested in a long-standing and serious relationship with the woman", while in truth he was a married Muslim man interested in a one-night stand with the woman.

No, he did not bargain to a charge of rape, he plea bargained from the charge of out and out rape and indecent assault to this rape by deception charge.

Israel's judicial system clearly saw fit to charge an Arab man who had consensual sex with a Jewish woman with full blown rape just like Black men in the US were charged with rape for sleeping with white women.