Palestinian tells the truth on CNN and gets arrested for it

[Valaisee]

You are " defending " yourselves in the way every settler colonialist group are compelled to " defend" themselves, from the people you are trying to dispossess and displace. Nobody with any sense of objectivity would believe this justification for mass abuse you are peddling here. The western settlers to the Americas " defending themselves" from the bows and arrows of the people who ?.........they are dispossessing and displacing. Same with New Zealand, Australia, they were defending themselves from the people they were aiming to dispossess and displace.

Building towns in YOUR own country is fine, building them in someone elses so as to try to annexe the territory is NOT

The abuses of the Palestinians by the state of Israel include a brutal and repressive half century plus military occupation. They include the theft of resources to sustain the illegal settlers. The right to a fair trial ( military courts), freedom of movement, freedom from violence by occupying forces and illegal settlers. They include the right not to be killed, to be protected from collective punishments, detention without trial, torture, displacement, homelessness. To be fee from seiges and continual attacks by the IDF. The right to self determination in a state of their own. The right to trade with other nations free from Israeli interventions............you would never stand for the above violations of your rights everyday and neither should they be forced to .

To ignore all of this , so as to paint yourself as the victims here, is just plain ridiculous and any person with half a brain should be able to see clean through this perception management rubbish

To avoid an unnecessary long post I will give a short and general response to the many abuse claims, I can elaborate more if and where you want:

1. "building towns in someone else country", "theft of resources": not an abuse, even if you thing it's illegal, and Israel has also rights to the land.
2. "disposes", "displace", "homelessness", "seige": none of these are true for a long time.
3. "fair trial", "freedom from violence", "right not to be killed", "protected from collective punishments": they have all these rights.
4. "continual attacks", "freedom of movement", "detention without trial", "torture": only as a direct response for terror attacks.
5. "self determination", "right to trade": the Palestinians continuously refuse independence from Israel since the partition plan in 1947.

 

[Juks]

To avoid an unnecessary long post I will give a short and general response to the many abuse claims, I can elaborate more if and where you want:

1. "self determination", "right to trade": the Palestinians continuously refuse independence from Israel since the partition plan in 1947.

Interesting. First time I ever heard of it, please elaborate. Thanks.

 

[Juks]

To avoid an unnecessary long post I will give a short and general response to the many abuse claims, I can elaborate more if and where you want:

1. "building towns in someone else country", "theft of resources": not an abuse, even if you thing it's illegal, and Israel has also rights to the land.
2. "disposes", "displace", "homelessness", "seige": none of these are true for a long time.
3. "fair trial", "freedom from violence", "right not to be killed", "protected from collective punishments": they have all these rights.
4. "continual attacks", "freedom of movement", "detention without trial", "torture": only as a direct response for terror attacks.
5. "self determination", "right to trade": the Palestinians continuously refuse independence from Israel since the partition plan in 1947.

And by the way, I am guessing that the first point is about the Israeli settlements on the occupied areas, like the west bank.

From swedish Wikipedia (translated):
In the West Bank, in addition to East Jerusalem, there were 328,423 settlers in 2011. 42% of the West Bank is under the control of the settlements. 21% of the residential area on the settlements is on privately owned Palestinian land.

 

[Excon]

Does anyone have more information on this story?

During an interview on US MSM a Palestinian living in East Jerusalem retorted to the pro Israel framing with a pro human rights framing and got arrested for it

anyone have a link to the actual story or video from CNN

Wow. That video host sure is an idiot.
His bs will rot your brain.
He has almost a million subscribers. I hope most of them are there to see what stupid shit he'll say next.

 

[Valaisee]

Interesting. First time I ever heard of it, please elaborate. Thanks.

There were many peace plans that would have resulted in an independent Palestinian state:

Peace Plans Table of Contents

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Israeli–Palestinian peace process - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Many of these plans were suggested or accepted by Israel, for example:

1. The 1947 partition plan
2. Oslo negotiation in 1993
3. Camp David negotiation in 2000
4. Olmert's plan in 2008
5. Trump plan in 2019

The point is that Israel has again and again proved it's willingness to accept an independent Palestinian state in Gaza, most of the West-Bank, and even some extra land inside Israel.

 

[Valaisee]

And by the way, I am guessing that the first point is about the Israeli settlements on the occupied areas, like the west bank.

From swedish Wikipedia (translated):
In the West Bank, in addition to East Jerusalem, there were 328,423 settlers in 2011. 42% of the West Bank is under the control of the settlements. 21% of the residential area on the settlements is on privately owned Palestinian land.

Afaik every settlement that is on privately owned Palestinian land is considered illegal by Israel, and some of them were dismantled.

 

[Mika-El]

Ok, you tell me where israel got the land to form their nation.

The question would have people believe you are ignorant of Jewish history and the origin of Jews OR

you think you already know the answer.

In regards to the former if that is the case, go read. No one is here to serve you .

In regards to the latter, gee let me make a wild guess, you think they stole it from Palestinians.

Call me psychic.

 

[bongsaway]

The question would have people believe you are ignorant of Jewish history and the origin of Jews OR

you think you already know the answer.

In regards to the former if that is the case, go read. No one is here to serve you .

In regards to the latter, gee let me make a wild guess, you think they stole it from Palestinians.

Call me psychic.

What would make you say stole it from the palestinians? I'm sure I'm ignorant of jewish history so you don't have to wonder nor am I interested in the origins of the jews. I do however have a question for you, what is jewish? When a person says I'm jewish I don't know how to take their statement. Is jewish a religious belief? Is jewish a nationality or is jewish a culture? If I say I'm hungarian I can point to a map to show where hungary is located. Where is jewland located for folks who say, I'm jewish? If the person points to israel wouldn't that make them israeli and not jewish?

 

[Mika-El]

What would make you say stole it from the palestinians? I'm sure I'm ignorant of jewish history so you don't have to wonder nor am I interested in the origins of the jews. I do however have a question for you, what is jewish? When a person says I'm jewish I don't know how to take their statement. Is jewish a religious belief? Is jewish a nationality or is jewish a culture? If I say I'm hungarian I can point to a map to show where hungary is located. Where is jewland located for folks who say, I'm jewish? If the person points to israel wouldn't that make them israeli and not jewish?

You ask questions you could easily look up. The term Jewish as used as a collective term to describe:

a-those who practice Judaism
b-those who identify with being Jewish no differently that the way Hungarians identify with Hungarian culture and language and customs and its ethnic and culture meaning
c-it could apply to their common connection to being discriminated against no different than how gay and lesbians form a collective based on that sense of persecution
d-it could apply to a shared mix of culture, ethnicity, political identity, national identity.

If a Jew is an Israeli they are an Israeli. They can also be Jewish just like someone can be Italian and may or may not be an Italian citizen.

Now if you really have a shit you could have looked it up. The fact you used the term "jewland" with a small j is clear as to your intent and on to ignore you go.

 

[Crunchtime]

You are " defending " yourselves in the way every settler colonialist group are compelled to " defend" themselves, from the people you are trying to dispossess and displace. Nobody with any sense of objectivity would believe this justification for mass abuse you are peddling here. The western settlers to the Americas " defending themselves" from the bows and arrows of the people who ?.........they are dispossessing and displacing. Same with New Zealand, Australia, they were defending themselves from the people they were aiming to dispossess and displace.

Building towns in YOUR own country is fine, building them in someone elses so as to try to annexe the territory is NOT

The abuses of the Palestinians by the state of Israel include a brutal and repressive half century plus military occupation. They include the theft of resources to sustain the illegal settlers. The right to a fair trial ( military courts), freedom of movement, freedom from violence by occupying forces and illegal settlers. They include the right not to be killed, to be protected from collective punishments, detention without trial, torture, displacement, homelessness. To be fee from seiges and continual attacks by the IDF. The right to self determination in a state of their own. The right to trade with other nations free from Israeli interventions............you would never stand for the above violations of your rights everyday and neither should they be forced to .

To ignore all of this , so as to paint yourself as the victims here, is just plain ridiculous and any person with half a brain should be able to see clean through this perception management rubbish

Colonialism? Yes, it's the way mankind has always advanced. Do you know any other way? Your argument is faulty. Full of holes. And as it concerns the conflict in the ME, untrue. The land belongs to Israel. The Palestinians are the trespassers.

Maybe if Hamas, etc., would cease and desist with the rockets... What do you think?

 

[bongsaway]

You ask questions you could easily look up. The term Jewish as used as a collective term to describe:

a-those who practice Judaism
b-those who identify with being Jewish no differently that the way Hungarians identify with Hungarian culture and language and customs and its ethnic and culture meaning
c-it could apply to their common connection to being discriminated against no different than how gay and lesbians form a collective based on that sense of persecution
d-it could apply to a shared mix of culture, ethnicity, political identity, national identity.

If a Jew is an Israeli they are an Israeli. They can also be Jewish just like someone can be Italian and may or may not be an Italian citizen.

Now if you really have a shit you could have looked it up. The fact you used the term "jewland" with a small j is clear as to your intent and on to ignore you go.

You have no idea of my intent and it has zero to do with not liking any jewish person, well maybe netanyahu, I'm not real fond of him. The first love of my life was a J.A.P. and as a catholic boy I had to be told what jap meant because I had no idea.

 

[Crunchtime]

Yep. Amazingly people still cling to Bronze Age mythology and take their instructions from 2000 year-old books. Here's a hint; there are no 'gods'; we, humans, invented them in an attempt at explaining the world around us when we were too primitive and unsophisticated to work out why, for example, a harvest failed. So, 'god' must be angry. Solution? Sacrifice a goat or two to appease 'him'. Result? Great harvest, so 'god' must be happy with us. It really is that simplistic, and the sooner people wake up from their reliance on something which doesn't exist, quit feeling guilty because some ancient and anachronistic book says they must, quit killing each other over absurd religious differences and imperatives, the happier the world will be.

Spare me your tired and overused argument. The way in which you ended your comments, "the happier the world would be", just show your naivete. You make it sound like the world is supposed to be one happy family. Is that the problem in the ME, and Israel? Just a little family problem?

 

[Crunchtime]

You have no idea of my intent and it has zero to do with not liking any jewish person, well maybe netanyahu, I'm not real fond of him. The first love of my life was a J.A.P. and as a catholic boy I had to be told what jap meant because I had no idea.

What did being "a catholic boy" have to do with it? So far you've used the terms jewland, J.A.P., and catholic boy. There's an "ism" in there somewhere. We need a prog to define it for us. Is there a prog available for consultation? Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bongsaway]

What did being "a catholic boy" have to do with it? So far you've used the terms jewland, J.A.P., and catholic boy. There's an "ism" in there somewhere. We need a prog to define it for us. Is there a prog available for consultation? Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me try to help you. The things you point out all have to do with religion and that mr. crunch is my point. Religion in my opinion causes more harm than good. It has zero to do with me having a problem with a catholic, jewish, muslim, hindu or any other religious person, it has to do with religion, period. To this day we are still killing each other in the name of god which is why I have zero to do with any god/s.

 

[snakestretcher]

Spare me your tired and overused argument. The way in which you ended your comments, "the happier the world would be", just show your naivete. You make it sound like the world is supposed to be one happy family. Is that the problem in the ME, and Israel? Just a little family problem?

Sorry that having the reality of the idiocy of religion shoved in your face upsets you. Wars fuelled by religious zealotry have cursed the world since idiots first invented 'gods'.

 

[Mithrae]

Sorry that having the reality of the idiocy of religion shoved in your face upsets you. Wars fuelled by religious zealotry have cursed the world since idiots first invented 'gods'.

What we really need are some secular or even atheistic superpowers to ensure world peace.

 

[oneworld2]

Colonialism? Yes, it's the way mankind has always advanced. Do you know any other way? Your argument is faulty. Full of holes. And as it concerns the conflict in the ME, untrue. The land belongs to Israel. The Palestinians are the trespassers.

Maybe if Hamas, etc., would cease and desist with the rockets... What do you think?

If you believe that might is right, which you evidently do, then you are compelled by logic to understand that people have the right to resist it too. That was my point and it is far from being " full of holes"

Maybe if Israel stopped occupying. illegally settling and attempting illegal annexations, along with desisting from the mass violating of the rights of millions of people, Hamas might reconsider firing rockets at Israeli towns?

 

[Chagos]

Hamas clearly states its desire to liberate Palestine and expel the Jews, obliterating the state of Israel in the process.

Nuff said.

 

[oneworld2]

Hamas clearly states its desire to liberate Palestine and expel the Jews, obliterating the state of Israel in the process.

Nuff said.

And LIkud papers and commentators have said they will never allow a Palestinian state in the OPTs.........if you are against rejectionism at least be consistent.

 

[Chagos]

To the best of my knowledge Likud does not pursue an official policy of expelling all Palestinians from the OPTs, irrespective of how many of its supporters may look upon any such move favourably.

Besides which, employing the logical fallacy of tu quoque is a demonstration of argumentative impotence.

And, to those professing to be acquainted with affairs in the area but actually showing nothing but ignorance, Likud is currently not in government.

One will have to see how long that status lasts, as much as one will have to see what this most unlikely coalition will be about.

But even then, saying "this is what Likud does/says" would validate not negotiating with Hamas on account of "this is what Hamas does/says". Of course the supporters of whataboutism are usually not equipped to see that.

 

[oneworld2]

To the best of my knowledge Likud does not pursue an official policy of expelling all Palestinians from the OPTs, irrespective of how many of its supporters may look upon any such move favourably.

The " best of your knowledge" actually counts for very little imo. You have proven, by your postings here, to hold many obvious contradictory opinions and biases that are, and have been shown to be, based on a lack of knowledge. I never claimed it was their " official" policy, I said many of their commentators and some of their platform statements have displayed an absolute rejection of the creation of a Palestinian state based on the OPTs /67 lines. So your comment above is based on something I never said. Just yet more of your usual strawman servicing in our exchanges. We will see more of the same willingness to deflect and misrepresent later on, it's become a standard in your postings

Besides which, employing the logical fallacy of tu quoque is a demonstration of argumentative impotence.

MY comment on Hamas was to do with the actions of the military of both sides and had NOTHING to do with their positions about eachothers state status. You dived in with the old Hamas Charter stuff like it was relevant to the discussion when it wasn't. You then objected to your use of their rejectionism being countered with the rejectionism found on the Israeli side, which IS actually relevant to your comment

And, to those professing to be acquainted with affairs in the area but actually showing nothing but ignorance, Likud is currently not in government.

Whether LIkud is in power or not is irrelevent to a discussion on their rejectionist statements/supporters. You have tried yet another strawman in a bid to validate your words and your credibility as a commentator. I never claimed they were in power because it has NOTHING to do with what was being discussed. For the record, however, they did recieve the most votes and seats in both the 2020 and thw 2021 elections

But even then, saying "this is what Likud does/says" would validate not negotiating with Hamas on account of "this is what Hamas does/says". Of course the supporters of whataboutism are usually not equipped to see that.

THose who object to whataboutism do so because it undermines their own preferred biases, it's just that simple. They both have rejectionist form/support, you only want people to focus of Palestinian rejectionism and for obvious reasons .

Your reply above was, yet again, a concoction of strawmen and attempted deceit and was shown to be so. You evidently have no inclination to actually debate honestly so will be given just enough of a response, going forward, to outline the rubbish contained in your posts here

 

[Chagos]

Dishonest non-debater finally gets that he will not be debated.

There's hope yet.

and, to repeat, Hamas clearly states its desire to liberate Palestine and expel the Jews, obliterating the state of Israel in the process.

Holding that little fact to be irrelevant to any discussion on the I/P conflict clearly shows what anyone engaging in such absurd line of argument is actually made of.

The lie of not having used Likud in comparison easily refuted by the response to the above statement on Hamas, reading as

And LIkud papers and commentators have said they will never allow a Palestinian state in the OPTs.........if you are against rejectionism at least be consistent.

and thus constituting the exact equation that the poster now denies having made.

 

[Crunchtime]

If you believe that might is right, which you evidently do, then you are compelled by logic to understand that people have the right to resist it too. That was my point and it is far from being " full of holes"

Maybe if Israel stopped occupying. illegally settling and attempting illegal annexations, along with desisting from the mass violating of the rights of millions of people, Hamas might reconsider firing rockets at Israeli towns?

Maybe if Hamas didn't exist some other extremists would do what they do. The truth is Israel isn't going away and neither are Muslim extremists. It's a spiritual conflict.

If you read the Koran, and look at the history of Islam you will see that their vision for expansion is colonialism. Infiltrate and take over. They openly state it. FYI, Hamas is Islam and so are all Palestinians.

 

[oneworld2]

Maybe if Hamas didn't exist some other extremists would do what they do. The truth is Israel isn't going away and neither are Muslim extremists. It's a spiritual conflict.

If you read the Koran, and look at the history of Islam you will see that their vision for expansion is colonialism. Infiltrate and take over. They openly state it. FYI, Hamas is Islam and so are all Palestinians.

It's a nationalist conflict and Hamas has declared that it is only interested in the question of Palestine.

If you look at everyones history you can see the same things, you probably only ever bothered to read the Koran in the aftermath of 9/11 when all of the other wesern scholars lol of it here took it up. How much of Mexico has the USA swallowed up since its founding? Where's the doctrine and book that provides the inspiration for that ?

You are applyiung a standard to Muslims that can be applied elsewhere and most accurately to your own nation. It's not Muslims that have military bases all around the globe and who are acting like the world police, it's your own nation. People in big glass houses and all!

 

[Chagos]

Tu quoque galore.