Pal arabs are oppressed in Lebanon

[Mira]

Well im sorry it hurt you but isn't it the truth? I mean, what has Hariri done, for example, to contribute in changing this system?

What can Hariri do ? the wounds of the war need to heal, the government constitution imposed by the French needs to change and most of all, foreign powers need to stop pulling the strings of Lebanese political groups and fighting their proxy wars on Lebanese soil.

That includes, Syria, Iran, Israel, the United States, Saudi Arabia among others.

 

[kaya'08]

I'm sorry, but there is always something he can do. And you know what? Now is the best time, because the Lebanese are war-weary. If he was brave and bold enough, he could do it. It is never impossible, nothing is ever that simple.

 

[Mira]

I'm sorry, but there is always something he can do. And you know what? Now is the best time, because the Lebanese are war-weary. If he was brave and bold enough, he could do it. It is never impossible, nothing is ever that simple.

Ok, I'll tell Hariri to be good

 

[kaya'08]

Ok, I'll tell Hariri to be good

Mira, do you not agree with me? Is it really an "impossible" situation or is it a situation in which the leader does not have the courage, or knowledge, or balls to do it?

Im not singling out Hariri, but in general, could a strong and relentless leader do it?

 

[Demon of Light]

The article is addressing NOW. Today. Not things that transpired decades ago.

He was acting as if Israel cannot be blamed in any way for a situation it created. That there is a Palestinian community in Lebanon is entirely the result of Israel's own actions. Obviously that is not an excuse for the Lebanese to treat the Palestinians the way they have, but it wouldn't even be an issue were it not for Israel.

Not at all Mira. Just pointing out what happens when a military is forced to engage a terrorist force in an urban setting. It isn't pretty. Neither for the IDF nor for the Lebanese Army. Fallujah is another exemplar of this consequence.

Civilian casualties were incredibly low during that conflict. Most civilians had evacuated the camp.

Actually the Christian Maronites are originally from Syria.
Besides that, there has been no official census since 1932 so we really don't know much about the demographics of Lebanon. Most of the inhabitants are secular anyway especially the Muslims.

True it really isn't certain what the current demographics are, but it is widely believed Muslims are now a majority.

Mira, Lebanon's fragility is of there own making.
Instead of creating a system based on "ethnic classes", why not work towards a Democracy where all people, regardless of age, sex, religion and ethnicity, are equal under the law?

If Lebanon blows up into another civil war i will have no sympathy for them.

That Shiites are the largest group is partly why Lebanon still hasn't changed its system. When that does happen Hezbollah will easily take over together with the allies it has in other communities. They actually are estimated to have gotten a clear majority of votes in the last election, but the ethnic division of seats meant they remain in opposition.

If Lebanon changes its constitution as you suggest then the U.S. and Israel will go ape****. Honestly, I'm not sure what would happen.

 

[joergan]

He was acting as if Israel cannot be blamed in any way for a situation it created. That there is a Palestinian community in Lebanon is entirely the result of Israel's own actions.

WRONG, totally wrong. I really hope that this is not the garbage young people are being taught today, its like saying the US attacked Japan in WW2.

The arab muslims attacked israel in 1948, is that a fact you were aware of?

Obviously that is not an excuse for the Lebanese to treat the Palestinians the way they have, but it wouldn't even be an issue were it not for Israel.

But but but but but

Keep excusing away the oppression, its hilarious...

Civilian casualties were incredibly low during that conflict. Most civilians had evacuated the camp.

Electronic Lebanon: Fierce clashes continue at Palestinian refugee camp in Lebanon

Israel kills 9 terrorists, and its pilloried, 50 people are killed in this conflict, and everyone is silent, what else is new?

True it really isn't certain what the current demographics are, but it is widely believed Muslims are now a majority.

And how did they accomplish this?

 

[Demon of Light]

WRONG, totally wrong. I really hope that this is not the garbage young people are being taught today, its like saying the US attacked Japan in WW2.

The arab muslims attacked israel in 1948, is that a fact you were aware of?

I'm not going to rehash this argument with yet another person, but Israel certainly didn't have to forcibly expel hundreds of thousands of Palestinians either way. That is why the Palestinians are in Lebanon.

Keep excusing away the oppression, its hilarious...

I'm not excusing anything. You were suggesting Israel had nothing to do with the situation of Palestinians in Lebanon and that is simply not true.

Israel kills 9 terrorists, and its pilloried, 50 people are killed in this conflict, and everyone is silent, what else is new?

Well, obviously the pro-Israeli side still has no idea how to put events in their proper context or maybe you are just deliberately misrepresenting it.

And how did they accomplish this?

By staying and making babies, the bastards.

 

[Mira]

Electronic Lebanon: Fierce clashes continue at Palestinian refugee camp in Lebanon

Israel kills 9 terrorists, and its pilloried, 50 people are killed in this conflict, and everyone is silent, what else is new?

joergan, why did the Lebanese army attack the camp and who was fighting who ?

Why was the number of casualties so low ?

edit: from the article that you posted (even though the figures aren't accurate)

--According to media reports, more than 20 soldiers and 20 fighters from Fatah Al-Islam were killed in Sunday's clashes, and an unconfirmed number of civilians. The BBC has described the clashes as "Lebanon's bloodiest internal fighting since the country's civil war ended 17 years ago."--

How many Israelis killed in the Gaza war or Lebanon war ? How many Lebanese and Palestinains ? How many military and how many civilians ?

 

[joergan]

I'm not going to rehash this argument with yet another person, but Israel certainly didn't have to forcibly expel hundreds of thousands of Palestinians either way.

If, despite all of the easily available history, you still believe that israel "cleared out hundreds of thousands of people" on purpose, then youre right, discussion with you is a total waste of time. Demagogues avoid facts and hold tight onto the lies they placate themselves with, it helps them retain their comfortable, but horribly skewed, worldview.

 

[washunut]

How many Israelis killed in the Gaza war or Lebanon war ? How many Lebanese and Palestinains ? How many military and how many civilians ?

Is the complaint that not enough Israelis were killed for your liking. In Lebanon today we are hearing reports that Hezbellah is building it's forces and missles in Southern villages for exactly the reason you cite. They will throw missles into Israel's civilian centers and dare the Israelis to come and bomb the villages where the missles come from. The UN seems to be against Israel defending itself. Not surprising looking at 2,000 years of expecting the Jews to be the world's punching bags.

 

[Mira]

Is the complaint that not enough Israelis were killed for your liking. In Lebanon today we are hearing reports that Hezbellah is building it's forces and missles in Southern villages for exactly the reason you cite. They will throw missles into Israel's civilian centers and dare the Israelis to come and bomb the villages where the missles come from. The UN seems to be against Israel defending itself. Not surprising looking at 2,000 years of expecting the Jews to be the world's punching bags.

Where exactly did I complain about not enough Israelis wbeing killed to my liking ?

I can't believe this thread. The OP is about a positive move from the Lebanese government toward the Palestinian problem and all I see is negativity.

2 posters brought up Nahr El-Bared as an example of Lebanese opressing Palestians. I explained that the Lebanese ousted Fath Al-Islam, a radical group tied to Al Qaida.

Then this was compared to Gaza and Tashah agreed that it's not comarable.

So what's the aim of this thread exactly ? to bash Lebanon and to prove that Israel has only done wonders in the Levant ?

 

[Tashah]

So what's the aim of this thread exactly ? to bash Lebanon and to prove that Israel has only done wonders in the Levant ?

You have no qualms when Israel is bashed. You partake with glee. But you don't like it so much when the worm turns.

IMO this thread illuminates the hush-hush, which is the appalling condition of the Palestinian camps in Lebanon. Instead of owning up to it and addressing it, the gist by some ostrich commentators here is to divert all blame to Israel. Poppycock.

The Palestinians in Lebanon aren't returning to Palestine anytime soon. They've been in Lebanon for decades and many are now fourth generation. Forget Israel. It's time for Lebanon itself to move forward.

 

[joergan]

I can't believe this thread. The OP is about a positive move from the Lebanese government toward the Palestinian problem and all I see is negativity.

That is just too freakin' hilarious. "First we treat them like farm animals, now we treat them like slaves!!! - aren't we such nice people"???!?!

How has anything improved in the lives of the pal arabs living in the ghetoo/concentration camps of Lebanon?

 

[kaya'08]

That is just too freakin' hilarious. "First we treat them like farm animals, now we treat them like slaves!!! - aren't we such nice people"???!?!

How has anything improved in the lives of the pal arabs living in the ghetoo/concentration camps of Lebanon?

Your commenting on the wellbeing of pal arabs?
Overnight transformation or what.

 

[Demon of Light]

You have no qualms when Israel is bashed. You partake with glee. But you don't like it so much when the worm turns.

IMO this thread illuminates the hush-hush, which is the appalling condition of the Palestinian camps in Lebanon. Instead of owning up to it and addressing it, the gist by some ostrich commentators here is to divert all blame to Israel. Poppycock.

The Palestinians in Lebanon aren't returning to Palestine anytime soon. They've been in Lebanon for decades and many are now fourth generation. Forget Israel. It's time for Lebanon itself to move forward.

Then how about you stop using what other countries do as an excuse for what your country does? Does mistreatment of the Palestinians by other Arabs somehow make Israel's mistreatment of them more acceptable?

 

[Mira]

You have no qualms when Israel is bashed. You partake with glee. But you don't like it so much when the worm turns.

IMO this thread illuminates the hush-hush, which is the appalling condition of the Palestinian camps in Lebanon. Instead of owning up to it and addressing it, the gist by some ostrich commentators here is to divert all blame to Israel. Poppycock.

The Palestinians in Lebanon aren't returning to Palestine anytime soon. They've been in Lebanon for decades and many are now fourth generation. Forget Israel. It's time for Lebanon itself to move forward.

That's a very strange way to illuminate the "hush hush" by posting a positive step that Lebanon has taken toward solving the Palestian problem in Lebanon.

It is also very strange that as an example of opression you brought us Nahr Al-Bared without realising that the war was not against the Palestinain refugees but against a radical Islamist group called Fath Al-Islam.

It si even stranger that you are reapeating the same idea about Palestinains not returning even though we've been through that in this very thread and I agreed with you.

I can understand that you must be leading a very busy life and as a mod you have to read more posts than we do, but perhaps you should at least read the threads that you're posting on.

 

[Mira]

That is just too freakin' hilarious. "First we treat them like farm animals, now we treat them like slaves!!! - aren't we such nice people"???!?!

How has anything improved in the lives of the pal arabs living in the ghetoo/concentration camps of Lebanon?

Bwahahahahahahhahahahahaaaaaaa !!! that IS funny :mrgreen:

So in you dictionary entrepreneur = slave ?

 

[Mira]

Reading the Lebanese papers, the Parliament aims at naturalising the Palestinians and guess who's opposing ? the Christian Phalangists.
I love it when Tashah says that I haven't adressed the issue, there you go, that's what I've been saying since the beginning of this thread.

 

[danarhea]

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/08/17/world/international-us-lebanon-palestinian-rights.html?hp

Lebanon Law Gives Palestinians Few Civil Rights

By REUTERS
Published: August 17, 2010
Filed at 12:32 p.m. ET

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Lebanon's parliament passed a law on Tuesday granting Palestinian refugees basic civil rights and rights campaigners said more needed to be done.

Palestinians have long been marginalized in Lebanon, where the 1975-90 civil war was sparked by a conflict between Palestinian and Lebanese Christian factions.

More than 425,000 registered refugees, most of them Sunni Muslims, now live in 12 overcrowded and unsanitary camps.

The latest law enables Palestinians to be engaged in entrepreneurial business, but maintains a bar on professions such as practicing medicine and the law.

"Its a step in the right direction," said Nadim Houri, head of Human Rights Watch in Lebanon. "It needs to be accompanied with administrative reforms, awareness campaigns among employers that they can hire Palestinians."

An earlier proposal to allow them to own a residential apartment was dropped, but some lawmakers said it may be addressed in a separate law.
------------------------------------

Funny how the various anti-semites prefer not to address the treatment of pal arabs/minorities in general in the arab muslim/muslim nations, but prefer to focus exclusively on Israel... :roll:

You know, if Palestinian Arabs would just quit firing those rockets at Israel, I am sure they would be treated better.

 

[Mira]

You know, if Palestinian Arabs would just quit firing those rockets at Israel, I am sure they would be treated better.

euuh danarhea, the OP is about the Palestinians in Lebanon :2wave:

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Mira, Lebanon's fragility is of there own making.
Instead of creating a system based on "ethnic classes", why not work towards a Democracy where all people, regardless of age, sex, religion and ethnicity, are equal under the law?

And why should they do that? Palestinians are not Lebanese; Lebanon exists for the benefit of the Lebanese.

I'm not going to rehash this argument with yet another person, but Israel certainly didn't have to forcibly expel hundreds of thousands of Palestinians either way.

Seems like a perfectly reasonable response to being attacked.

I'm not excusing anything. You were suggesting Israel had nothing to do with the situation of Palestinians in Lebanon and that is simply not true.

Hell, why not blame Britain while you're at it?

 

[Demon of Light]

Seems like a perfectly reasonable response to being attacked.

Except it wasn't about being attacked, but all about clearing the land of as many non-Jews as possible as to insure a state would emerge that was dominated by Jews.

Hell, why not blame Britain while you're at it?

The British weren't the ones who kicked the Palestinians out in 1948 and sent them to countries like Lebanon.

 

[Apocalypse]

Except it wasn't about being attacked, but all about clearing the land of as many non-Jews as possible as to insure a state would emerge that was dominated by Jews.

There are 20% Arab citizens amongst Israel's population, so this baseless claim has nothing to do with history and is merely the work of fiction.

The British weren't the ones who kicked the Palestinians out in 1948 and sent them to countries like Lebanon.

Israel was attacked by those Palestinians and the Arab nations in a war of annihilation, Britain wasn't, and what Korimyr is trying to say I believe is that you can go back and back but there is no point in doing so when the current reason for the Lebanese Palestinian community's situation is the Lebanese state mistreatment.

 

[danarhea]

euuh danarhea, the OP is about the Palestinians in Lebanon :2wave:

Yes, and the Palestinian Arabs in Lebanon have a habit of firing rockets into Israel, which was the reason Israel invaded Lebanon.

 

[Demon of Light]

There are 20% Arab citizens amongst Israel's population, so this baseless claim has nothing to do with history and is merely the work of fiction.

They used to be a lot more than 20% of the population and even that 20% is not reflective of the extent to which they were expelled.

Israel was attacked by those Palestinians and the Arab nations in a war of annihilation, Britain wasn't, and what Korimyr is trying to say I believe is that you can go back and back but there is no point in doing so when the current reason for the Lebanese Palestinian community's situation is the Lebanese state mistreatment.

Of course, I was responding to someone who suggested Israel bore no responsibility. Mira has already made a decent point about those responsible for the mistreatment of Palestinians in Lebanon itself also.