Pakistan condemns US drone attack

[Dittohead not!]

I would think that a rational person would consider that Muslim extremists are deliberately killing far more Muslims than the accidental deaths caused by American drone strikes. And I would think that fact would completely destroy the recruitment of Muslim extremists. However facts tend to be rather irrevelvant to religious fanatics and to those who have their own self-serving political agendas.


Nope. I just don't subscribe to the notion that if a Muslim becomes a violent extremist that it's automatically America's or Israel's fault. Do we automatically put the blame elsewhere whenever a Christian extremist lashes out violently?

There are few examples of Christian extremists lashing out in any way but trying to tell us about Jesus.

Automatically America's or Israel's fault? No, that's not accurate.
The question is whether drone attacks actually kill more extremists than they recruit. I'm not so sure that they do.

 

[Wraith8]

The question is whether drone attacks actually kill more extremists than they recruit. I'm not so sure that they do.

If you want to make the argument that they should be more careful in how they use drones then that's completely fair. However I guarentee even if we drastically reduced the number of civilians casualties, that still isn't going to stop various people in Pakistan (as well as far left westerners) from exclusively harping on ONLY the civilian casualties that drones cause.

 

[Dittohead not!]

If you want to make the argument that they should be more careful in how they use drones then that's completely fair. However I guarentee even if we drastically reduced the number of civilians casualties, that still isn't going to stop various people in Pakistan (as well as far left westerners) from exclusively harping on ONLY the civilian casualties that drones cause.

The fact of the matter is that they do cause civilian casualties.

Let's look at it this way: There is a terrible gang problem in the United States. We could deal with that problem by targeting gang leaders with drone attacks. Of course, there would be some collateral damage, but, that's just an inevitable side effect. So, if it's OK to use drones to kill terrorists in Yemen, why not do the same to kill gang leaders in LA? What's the difference?

 

[Wraith8]

The fact of the matter is that they do cause civilian casualties.

I don't know too many weapons of war that DON'T sometimes inadvertantly cause civilian casualties? The fact is it's pretty much impossible for any country to fight a war that wouldn't result in some civilian casualties, particularly a war against an insurgency that's indistinguishable from civilians and sometimes even uses civilians as human shields.

There is a terrible gang problem in the United States. We could deal with that problem by targeting gang leaders with drone attacks. Of course, there would be some collateral damage, but, that's just an inevitable side effect. So, if it's OK to use drones to kill terrorists in Yemen, why not do the same to kill gang leaders in LA? What's the difference?

Uh...because in the US it's illegal for the US government to deliberately target and execute citizens without a trial. There's a difference in the tactics that we can Constitutionally use to fight crime here at home and the tactics that we can use in fighting a war overseas.

 

[the_recruit]

If Pakistan has the power to put a stop to US drone strikes, and Yemen does not, then does that make drone strikes in Yemen OK, but wrong in Pakistan, or is it really a matter of who has the power?

In international affairs, it is the strong who decide what is right and what is not, in other words, might makes right.

No. Might does not make right. Power gives you ability to exert your will. That has nothing to do with whether your will is right or wrong.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Cuba protests Guantanamo Bay by not cashing the rent checks the US government sends them each year.

How many checks have the Pakistanis failed to cash?

 

[Dittohead not!]

No. Might does not make right. Power gives you ability to exert your will. That has nothing to do with whether your will is right or wrong.

but everything to do with whether you will get away with it.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Cuba protests Guantanamo Bay by not cashing the rent checks the US government sends them each year.

How many checks have the Pakistanis failed to cash?

Does it really?
Now, there's an effective protest LOL.

 

[Paschendale]

It is naive to think that our attacks on other nations won't come back to haunt us, and incredibly egocentric to proclaim a moral high ground. Who fired the first shots generations ago does not matter. Violence only breeds more violence until someone decides to stop retaliating.

How is Pakistan not justified in using whatever means it can (including terrorism and nuclear weapons) in order to protect its people from us? This will only escalate unless someone makes the choice to end it. And demanding that the other side stop first never works. (Jihaddist martyrs excepted, obviously, but religious delusions are a topic for another thread)

 

[Dittohead not!]

It is naive to think that our attacks on other nations won't come back to haunt us, and incredibly egocentric to proclaim a moral high ground. Who fired the first shots generations ago does not matter. Violence only breeds more violence until someone decides to stop retaliating.

How is Pakistan not justified in using whatever means it can (including terrorism and nuclear weapons) in order to protect its people from us? This will only escalate unless someone makes the choice to end it. And demanding that the other side stop first never works. (Jihaddist martyrs excepted, obviously, but religious delusions are a topic for another thread)

Besides which, Pakistan is supposed to be an ally.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

It is naive to think that our attacks on other nations won't come back to haunt us

We are not attacking the Pakistani govt.

 

[Dittohead not!]

We are not attacking the Pakistani govt.

so, it would be OK for a foreign nation to carry out drone attacks on our bad guys as long as they weren't attacking the government.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

so, it would be OK for a foreign nation to carry out drone attacks on our bad guys as long as they weren't attacking the government.

1) the claim was that we were attacking Pakistan.

2) Yeah, why not? If America is acting as a launching ground for attacks against mexico and we lack the capabilities or will to deal with it, it seems clear the mexicans would have the moral and legal authority to conduct operations against such targets

 

[Captain America]

I wouldn't mind it if Mexico sent over a few drones to knock out Cartel members hiding just over the border here in America. A little collateral damage would be okay too as long as it was in Texas, Arizona or California.

Just kidding.

We all know, as far as America goes, it's "do what I say," and not, "do what I do." One advantage of being bad-ass.

Hey Pakistan! Eat ****! If you don't want us killing terrorists, YOU kill 'em. Until then, bombs away baby!

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

I wouldn't mind it if Mexico sent over a few drones to knock out Cartel members hiding just over the border here in America. A little collateral damage would be okay too as long as it was in Texas, Arizona or California.

Drug cartels hardly operate with impunity in the states.

 

[Hard Truth]

Any nation that harbors or allows terrorists to operate inside its borders has no right to claim to be anything other than terrorists themselves so far as I'm concerned.

So you wouldn't object if China used a drone to kill Tibetan dissidents in the USA if they considered them terrorists, right?

 

[Tigger]

So you wouldn't object if China used a drone to kill Tibetan dissidents in the USA if they considered them terrorists, right?

My only complaints would be.....

1. Why are there Tibetan disidents being allowed into the United States?
2. Where the **** is our air defense network?

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

So you wouldn't object if China used a drone to kill Tibetan dissidents in the USA if they considered them terrorists, right?

has this discussion reached the point of absurdity where we are equating Tibetan dissidents and Taliban styled groups?

 

[Captain America]

has this discussion reached the point of absurdity where we are equating Tibetan dissidents and Taliban styled groups?

Just wait until we get around to the telemarketers and Jehovah Witnesses! LOL!

 

[Hard Truth]

has this discussion reached the point of absurdity where we are equating Tibetan disnts and Taliban styled groups?

I believe China considers at least some of them terrorists.

 

[Hard Truth]

My only complaints would be.....

1. Why are there Tibetan disidents being allowed into the United States?
2. Where the **** is our air defense network?

1. They may be refugees
2. If drug smugglers can routinely enter the USA with small planes, I expect that a drone at approximately the same size could also.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

I believe China considers at least some of them terrorists.

china "considering" some of them terrorists hardly works to place them on the same level as the Taliban, as it exists and operates within Pakistan.

 

[Hard Truth]

china "considering" some of them terrorists hardly works to place them on the same level as the Taliban, as it exists and operates within Pakistan.

Pakistan disagrees. China might disagree.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Pakistan disagrees. China might disagree.

lol, what a lame rebuttal. Please, outline how these dissidents are operating within a similar manner to the afghani and Pakistani taliban in Pakistan

 

[Hard Truth]

lol, what a lame rebuttal. Please, outline how these dissidents are operating within a similar manner to the afghani and Pakistani taliban in Pakistan

I'm not saying that they are the same.

I'm saying that China may claim that they are terrorists. Due to our practices, if China declares the Tibetans terrorists, the USA will have no principal to stand on to argue against China attacking them with drones on our soil. We can't even ask China for proof, or a criminal conviction because we haven't supplied such evidence to the countries where we have done assassinations by drone.

Everything we do to other countries, we have to be prepared to have happen to us, whether we choose to allow it or not. That's Blowback.