Overly progressive policing and prosecution simply doesn't work

[ALiberalModerate]

In what terms? In terms of median home prices, the states that people have determined are the most desirable are Hawaii, California, Massachusetts, Colorado, Washington, New Jersey, Maryland, New York, Oregon, and Utah, in that order. The gap, even within that top-ten list, is huge. Like Hawaii is seen as so much better than Utah, by the collective wisdom of the market, that a single median home there is seen as significantly more value than having two median homes in Utah.



Yes, I was there shortly before the pandemic. It seemed like a terrible dump to me, but I'll accept that personal tastes vary from person to person and that my anecdotal experience with it may have been influenced by what things I happened to see while there, which are never going to be a representative sampling. "Fast-growing" though, doesn't mean a place isn't a dump. Most of the fastest growing cities in the world are dumps.... it's never places like Geneva or Monte Carlo that are the world's fastest-growing. It's places with giant slums Malappuram, India (44% growth in just 5 years), or Can Tho, Vietnam (37% in those same five years). When people live like this, you can add a lot of population quickly:

View attachment 67387770

KC isn't that bad, obviously, but it definitely has its slums.



I think the cities that do best tend to be the ones that stay the course with liberal government (in cooperation with wider liberalism in the state and regional governments). Take Boston, for example. In the last FBI Uniform Crime Report, it had the lowest murder rate of any large metropolitan area in the US. It has high life expectancy, low incarceration, good air quality, a walkable downtown, world-class cultural offerings, great schools, elite job opportunities, and so on. In terms of quality of life, it regularly ranks among the best in the world:

The 26 major cities with the highest quality of life in the world

Deutsche Bank released its annual "Mapping the world's prices" report, cataloguing the cost of goods and services in a cross section of the world's biggest cities

www.businessinsider.com

How did it get there? Well, it hasn't had Republican leadership even once in the last 92 years. And most of the Democratic mayors in recent decades were true-blue liberals like Ray Flynn, Tom Menino, and Michelle Wu.

Thomas M. Menino, Mayor Who Led Boston’s Renaissance, Is Dead at 71 (Published 2014)

Mr. Menino was Boston’s longest-serving mayor, and helped transform it from a gritty parochial town to an economic and cultural hub of New England.

www.nytimes.com

When the people stay the course, rather than being panicked into self-destructive reactionary periods by culture-warriors driving wedge issues, things go well.

Making comparisons to the developing world is absurd.

As to Florida: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-housing-least-affordable-in-the-u-s-miami-tampa-orlando-naples/

Moreover, if you think KC is a dump, I can't imagine you have spent much time in the city.

Loading…

www.kansascity.com

 

[bomberfox]

Making comparisons to the developing world is absurd.

As to Florida: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-housing-least-affordable-in-the-u-s-miami-tampa-orlando-naples/

Moreover, if you think KC is a dump, I can't imagine you have spent much time in the city.

Loading…

www.kansascity.com

Its actually pretty on point considering the point made.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Its actually pretty on point considering the point made.

The fact is, you can rationalize it all you want, but the average voter is going to think that not prosecuting shoplifting is ridiculous. The average voter is going to think you know, I really don't want to have my kids seeing a bunch of addicts smoking heroin or shooting up out on the street in front of god and everyone. The average voter is going to think that they don't like homeless addicts turning their neighborhood parks into a combination of an open sewer and a landfill.

If you don't think that kind of stuff will hurt Democrats at the polls this November, then you are delusional. Go to San Francisco or Seattle and I will kiss your ass and mine twice if you can walk 3 blocks without seeing someone smoking heroin. Now you can talk "drug war" and "mass incarceration" all you want, but the average person visiting those cities sees that and thinks no ****ing way do I want this where I live.

 

[Mina]

Making comparisons to the developing world is absurd.

No, it isn't. It may make you uncomfortable, but you should interrogate that emotional response. If rapid population growth is meant to be a sign of the greatness of a city, why is it that all the most rapidly growing cities are absolute shitholes?

As to Florida: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-housing-least-affordable-in-the-u-s-miami-tampa-orlando-naples/

I see. So, that's based not on the price to live in a place (which is a reflection of how high people have bid that cost of admission), but rather that price relative to local incomes (which are relatively low in Florida). Florida is an odd case, since it's a retirement destination. Retirees tend to have fairly low incomes, but also low expenses (since they don't commute, don't typically have kids to support, generally aren't nursing mortgage payments and student loans, etc.) I'd expect affordability, in terms of ratios of local costs to local incomes, would tend to be low in most retirement areas.

Moreover, if you think KC is a dump, I can't imagine you have spent much time in the city.

It wasn't much time. But, again, whether you spent a day or a decade there, your personal experience is never going to be a representative sampling. Mostly you'll just see the neighborhoods where you live and work, and the people who run in similar social circles, all of which could be very atypical. That's why we do better to look at stats, which can be verifiable and representative. We know, in that sense, that KC is a horribly crime-plagued city, given its high murder rate, and not a very good place to find a high-paying job, judging by low per capita income (relative to other big MSA's), and that the market has judged it a lousy place to live, based on the low home values there.

 

[bomberfox]

The fact is, you can rationalize it all you want, but the average voter is going to think that not prosecuting shoplifting is ridiculous. The average voter is going to think you know, I really don't want to have my kids seeing a bunch of addicts smoking heroin or shooting up out on the street in front of god and everyone. The average voter is going to think that they don't like homeless addicts turning their neighborhood parks into a combination of an open sewer and a landfill.

If you don't think that kind of stuff will hurt Democrats at the polls this November, then you are delusional. Go to San Francisco or Seattle and I will kiss your ass and mine twice if you can walk 3 blocks without seeing someone smoking heroin. Now you can talk "drug war" and "mass incarceration" all you want, but the average person visiting those cities sees that and thinks no ****ing way do I want this where I live.

You seem very pissy today. These calls to scale back the harshness of policing in new york and other states didnt come out of the ether. I invite you to step into my world . Ill hold you to that bet lol!

 

[ALiberalModerate]

No, it isn't. It may make you uncomfortable, but you should interrogate that emotional response. If rapid population growth is meant to be a sign of the greatness of a city, why is it that all the most rapidly growing cities are absolute shitholes?



I see. So, that's based not on the price to live in a place (which is a reflection of how high people have bid that cost of admission), but rather that price relative to local incomes (which are relatively low in Florida). Florida is an odd case, since it's a retirement destination. Retirees tend to have fairly low incomes, but also low expenses (since they don't commute, don't typically have kids to support, generally aren't nursing mortgage payments and student loans, etc.) I'd expect affordability, in terms of ratios of local costs to local incomes, would tend to be low in most retirement areas.



It wasn't much time. But, again, whether you spent a day or a decade there, your personal experience is never going to be a representative sampling. Mostly you'll just see the neighborhoods where you live and work, and the people who run in similar social circles, all of which could be very atypical. That's why we do better to look at stats, which can be verifiable and representative. We know, in that sense, that KC is a horribly crime-plagued city, given its high murder rate, and not a very good place to find a high-paying job, judging by low per capita income (relative to other big MSA's), and that the market has judged it a lousy place to live, based on the low home values there.

The reason why your comparing cities in the developing world to American cities is absurd is because in the developing world, people are moving from extreme poverty to relative poverty. The slum in New Delhi is better than facing starvation in a small village.

People move to American cities for economic and quality of life reasons. For example, let's take Minneapolis. It is a growing city with an extreme climate. People move there despite the harsh winters due to quality of life, yet unlike with the developing world, no one, other than refugees, moves there to escape starvation.

Now, why would KC be growing despite its hot summers and cold winters, people move here for quality of life and economic reasons just like they move to any other city.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

You seem very pissy today. These calls to scale back the harshness of policing in new york and other states didnt come out of the ether. I invite you to step into my world . Ill hold you to that bet lol!

Have you seen the mayor that NYC elected, it seems that the residents there wanted some of the policing back again. . It is a balance. On one hand, people do not want an abusive police force. On the other hand, communities want law and order, it's a balance.

 

[bomberfox]

Is it me or do people who call themselves moderates get pissy as any bernie bro when they arent catered to all the time?

 

[bomberfox]

Have you seen the mayor that NYC elected, it seems that the residents there wanted some of the policing back again. . It is a balance. On one hand, people do not want an abusive police force. On the other hand, communities want law and order, it's a balance.

Stop and frisk was abolished derp derp. You have no solutions but locking people up then act all surprised when people are less trusting of police.

 

[bomberfox]

Well moderate you got your law and order. Mass incarceration is the result dare i say its the intended result. You cant ignore it and pretend it will go away and pretend murica is the land of the free but i think people are waking up to the fact that the two are mutually exclusive. Question have you ever done advocacy for making prisons less dehumanizing ever? I have.

 

[Mina]

The reason why your comparing cities in the developing world to American cities is absurd is because in the developing world, people are moving from extreme poverty to relative poverty.

[/QUOTE]

Yes. In a similar way, no doubt some of those moving to, say, KC, are coming from some poorer area, whether that's the rural parts of the state, or across our southern border in Mexico. As with people moving to those slum cities in the third world, they're hoping for better in the city. Just because a comparison makes you squirm doesn't make it absurd. You should learn to step back and ask yourself why you're squirming, so you can start to think clearly.

Now, why would KC be growing despite its hot summers and cold winters

It's cheap and it's geographically fairly convenient for people moving from still poorer areas..... much as is the case for those third-world cities.

 

[bomberfox]

Im trying to remember that store chain the created such an overblown panic in California.

 

[bomberfox]

Voters’ perceptions of crime continue to conflict with reality

Despite double-digit decreases in U.S. violent and property crime rates since 2008, most voters say crime has gotten worse during that span.

www.pewresearch.org

Now you wanna bullshit me with this notion that policing has not ever been disproportionate to the actual crime rate? Lol

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Yes. In a similar way, no doubt some of those moving to, say, KC, are coming from some poorer area, whether that's the rural parts of the state, or across our southern border in Mexico. As with people moving to those slum cities in the third world, they're hoping for better in the city. Just because a comparison makes you squirm doesn't make it absurd. You should learn to step back and ask yourself why you're squirming, so you can start to think clearly.


It's cheap and it's geographically fairly convenient for people moving from still poorer areas..... much as is the case for those third-world cities.

Yes. In a similar way, no doubt some of those moving to, say, KC, are coming from some poorer area, whether that's the rural parts of the state, or across our southern border in Mexico. As with people moving to those slum cities in the third world, they're hoping for better in the city. Just because a comparison makes you squirm doesn't make it absurd. You should learn to step back and ask yourself why you're squirming, so you can start to think clearly.


It's cheap and it's geographically fairly convenient for people moving from still poorer areas..... much as is the case for those third-world cities.
[/QUOTE]

We don't see mass migration to American cities to live in slums, that is where your comparison falls apart. It's the difference between a manual labor dependent economy and knowledge economies.

I have a feeling that when you visited KC, your visit was limited to KCK.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Voters’ perceptions of crime continue to conflict with reality

Despite double-digit decreases in U.S. violent and property crime rates since 2008, most voters say crime has gotten worse during that span.

www.pewresearch.org

Now you wanna bullshit me with this notion that policing has not ever been disproportionate to the actual crime rate? Lol

That is an article from 2016, and when it comes to voters, perception is all the matters. Pointing out to someone that is concerned with crime in their neighborhood that there was a time when it was even more dangerous is as dumb as telling someone concerned about wages and working conditions that there was a time when we had sweatshops.

 

[bomberfox]

That is an article from 2016, and when it comes to voters, perception is all the matters. Pointing out to someone that is concerned with crime in their neighborhood that there was a time when it was even more dangerous is as dumb as telling someone concerned about wages and working conditions that there was a time when we had sweatshops.

Perceptions are what got us this over incarceration problem in the supposed “land of the free” tm in fact i bet those very same asshats joke about prison rape all the time.

People that have been incarcerated for small offenses or are harassed by police multiple times a day looking for contraband that isnt even there dont give a **** about your perceptions.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Perceptions are what got us this over incarceration problem in the supposed 0land of the free” tm in fact i bet those very same asshats joke about prison rape all the time.

Again, perceptions are all the matter when it comes to voters. If we refuse to recognize that, then we may as well give the keys to the country to the GOP, because they definitely get it.

 

[bomberfox]

Again, perceptions are all the matter when it comes to voters. If we refuse to recognize that, then we may as well give the keys to the country to the GOP, because they definitely get it.

Compared to Bloomberg style policing you might as well have a republican. I dont see much difference between tough on crime democrats and tough on crime republicans.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Compared to Bloomberg style you might as well have a republican.

Yeah, there is no difference at all between Mike Bloomberg and Greg Abbott or Ron DeSantis...

 

[bomberfox]

Yeah, there is no difference at all between Mike Bloomberg and Greg Abbott or Ron DeSantis...

There really isnt. Bloomberg fought against welfare and minimum wage raises and pretty much acted like a republican for most of his career., fought to harass and single out black folks with police as per his admission. The same daily harassment of minorities happens.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

There really isnt. Bloomberg fought against welfare and minimum wage raises, fought to harass and single out black folks with police as per his admission.

The ultimate white privilege is impracticality. There is a mile of difference him and those 2. Did Mike Bloomberg create a Stasi with bounties on women that seeking abortion care? Did Mike Bloomberg ban teachers from even discussing families with same sex parents? Would Mike Bloomberg banned businesses from having vaccine requirements for their employees during a deadly pandemic? I mean come on.

 

[bomberfox]

The ultimate white privilege is impracticality. There is a mile of difference him and those 2. Did Mike Bloomberg create a Stasi with bounties on women that seeking abortion care? Did Mike Bloomberg ban teachers from even discussing families with same sex parents? Would Mike Bloomberg banned businesses from having vaccine requirements for their employees during a deadly pandemic? I mean come on.

Bloomberg created a stasi for minorities. You call it white privilege but actually i got most of my info on bloomberg from black progressives including Benjamin
Dixon who unearthed Bloomberg’s embarrassing tape. It aint about impracticality its recognizing Bloomberg’s history as an anti democratic guy that just loves to buy into power no matter what side will give him power.

NYPD’s Infamous Stop-and-Frisk Policy Found Unconstitutional - The Leadership Conference Education Fund

By Taahira Thompson, a Summer 2013 Leadership Conference Intern In a decision announced last week, a federal judge found the New York City Police Department’s “Stop-and-Frisk” policy unconstitutional. The controversial policy allowed police officers to stop, interrogate and search New York City...

civilrights.org

Bloomberg hates civil rights so i dont view him as any different than a republican and am damn glad he didnt win the presidency.

The ultimate white privilege is being a spoonfed millionaire that thinks he can look down on everyone like hes their daddy.