Overly progressive policing and prosecution simply doesn't work

[ALiberalModerate]

Maybe i should have just used a slogan. My bad.

Well is that not your argument?

 

[bomberfox]

Well is that not your argument?

I dunno didnt you want us to use slogans? Even in discussions?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I dunno didnt you want us to use slogans? Even in discussions?

You are the one that brought up slogans. My point is that just because there are problems in society does not mean that you don't have to have rules that apply to to everyone.

For example, let's say someone was driving a vehicle that burned a massive amount of oil due the engine needing a rebuild. Thus everywhere they went, a huge black cloud of toxic smoke followed them. One could argue that person is barely getting by, cars are really expensive right now, so we should just continue to let them drive that vehicle and belch clouds of toxic black smoke everywhere they go.

The problem is that cities involve millions of people living in relatively close proximity to each other and that requires rules for everywhere. Thus, we can't have people driving around in vehicles that belch massive amounts of harmful pollutants even if they cannot afford to have their vehicle repaired or replaced. Because too many people are negatively impacted by that.

Similarly, we cannot have homeless encampments turning city parks into open landfills and sewers because its a city, people have to live together and share common resources. For everyone to successfully live together, we have to have rules that apply to everyone.

 

[bomberfox]

You are the one that brought up slogans. My point is that just because there are problems in society does not mean that you don't have to have rules that apply to to everyone.

For example, let's say someone was driving a vehicle that burned a massive amount of oil due the engine needing a rebuild. Thus everywhere they went, a huge black cloud of toxic smoke followed them. One could argue that person is barely getting by, cars are really expensive right now, so we should just continue to let them drive that vehicle and belch clouds of toxic black smoke everywhere they go.

The problem is that cities involve millions of people living in relatively close proximity to each other and that requires rules for everywhere. Thus, we can't have people driving around in vehicles that belch massive amounts of harmful pollutants even if they cannot afford to have their vehicle repaired or replaced. Because too many people are negatively impacted by that.

Similarly, we cannot have homeless encampments turning city parks into open landfills and sewers because its a city, people have to live together and share common resources. For everyone to successfully live together, we have to have rules that apply to everyone.

Sure we dont disagree. I am bringing up slogans because you personally demanded that i use a slogan when i tried to explain concepts to you. I ask where do you want these people to go instead?

 

[bomberfox]

And lastly do you think people would be calling for defunding the police if they didnt live an entire generation with mass incarceration at levels that rival a tinpot dictatorship?

United States incarceration rate - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Sure we dont disagree. I am bringing up slogans because you personally demanded that i use a slogan when i tried to explain concepts to you. I ask where do you want these people to go instead?

Where they go to camp is up to them. Where they should not be allowed to camp is in city parks.

 

[bomberfox]

Where they go to camp is up to them. Where they should not be allowed to camp is in city parks.

Cool.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

And lastly do you think people would be calling for defunding the police if they didnt live an entire generation with mass incarceration at levels that rival a tinpot dictatorship?

The vast majority of people calling for defunding the police are activists that were raised in middle to upper middle class households. Look at when it went on the ballot in Minneapolis and look at which groups voted in favor of abolishing the police and which groups voted against it. https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/minneapolis-police-reform/

 

[bomberfox]

The vast majority of people calling for defunding the police are activists that were raised in middle to upper middle class households. Look at when it went on the ballot in Minneapolis and look at which groups voted in favor of abolishing the police and which groups voted against it. https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/minneapolis-police-reform/

Are you sure about this? Ive been in the activist world, it aint just white people . Middle class people ****ing love the police.

See what you dont understand is what its like to live your whole life in a country that imprisons its entire population at rates that rival countries we call tyrannies. You know who created that? Rich reaganites and middle class white clinton lovers.

 

[bomberfox]

Do they look white to you?

 

[bomberfox]

The Emerging Movement for Police and Prison Abolition

Mariame Kaba, a New York City-based activist and organizer, is at the center of an effort to “build up another world.”

www.newyorker.com

Is this your idea of a white middle class person?

 

[bomberfox]

The vast majority of people calling for defunding the police are activists that were raised in middle to upper middle class households. Look at when it went on the ballot in Minneapolis and look at which groups voted in favor of abolishing the police and which groups voted against it. https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/minneapolis-police-reform/

Its actually those shitty stuck up upper middle class folks that gave us mass incarceration. I think you just wanna blame progressives for every loss you encounter. We arent nearly as powerful as you think.

You think ronnie rayguns, HW Bush, and Clinton were pandering to poor black folks when they were saying “welfare queens, young bucks, super predators, hood rats?”. No they were pandering to upper middle class folks and folks with a serious case of survivorship bias. Quite possibly the most NIMBY self absorbed people on the planet.

Take a step outta your bubble.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

View attachment 67387650
View attachment 67387652
Do they look white to you?

Are white people the only people coming from middle class backgrounds?

 

[bomberfox]

Are white people the only people coming from middle class backgrounds?

Its pretty irrelevant anyway. You can just say if you want us to be part of the process or not but just remember who gave us mass incarceration. Its the folks you think are the ones behind defund the police.

Just remember without us, your failures will be your own. Defund the police is the radicalism in response to the mass incarceration system to jolt people to wake the **** up, its either accept concessions or we are going to defund you. Much like labor radicalization forced most people to listen to the moderates.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Its actually those shitty stuck up upper middle class folks that gave us mass incarceration. I think you just wanna blame progressives for every loss you encounter. We arent nearly as powerful as you think.

You think ronnie rayguns, HW Bush, and Clinton were pandering to poor black folks when they were saying “welfare queens, young bucks, super predators, hood rats?”. No they were pandering to upper middle class folks and folks with a serious case of survivorship bias. Quite possibly the most NIMBY self absorbed people on the planet.

Take a step outta your bubble.

In the 1996 presidential election, Bill Clinton received what was the highest percentage of the black vote of any president since LBJ. The Clinton years represented the biggest reduction in the violent crime rate ever. Millions of Black Americans were lifted out of poverty and into the Middle Class during the Clinton years. There is a reason why he was so beloved by Black people while he was president.

Were the 90s perfect, of course not. Were there mistakes made, of course, but that was a different time and the 1994 Crime Bill was passed and signed into law during a time when we had some of the most dangerous cities on earth in the United States.

 

[bomberfox]

In the 1996 presidential election, Bill Clinton received what was the highest percentage of the black vote of any president since LBJ. The Clinton years represented the biggest reduction in the violent crime rate ever. Millions of Black Americans were lifted out of poverty and into the Middle Class during the Clinton years. There is a reason why he was so beloved by Black people while he was president.

Were the 90s perfect, of course not. Were there mistakes made, of course, but that was a different time and the 1994 Crime Bill was passed and signed into law during a time when we had some of the most dangerous cities on earth in the United States.

Mmmkay. You got your beloved mass incarceration system clintonite. My generation is ****ing fed up with it. Course a Clinton fan wouldnt understand. You have mo other solutions. Just know lots of people are getting fed the **** up and you will just have to ****ing deal with it.

It aint perfect… lolz!

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Mmmkay. You got your beloved mass incarceration system clintonite. My generation is ****ing fed up with it.

Having some of the highest violent crime rates on earth is part of what gave us mass incarceration. Moreover, most people are locked up at the state level where criminal laws and sentencing guidelines are established in state legislatures, not at the federal level.

 

[bomberfox]

Having some of the highest violent crime rates on earth is part of what gave us mass incarceration. Moreover, most people are locked up at the state level where criminal laws and sentencing guidelines are established in state legislatures, not at the federal level.

Ok you fix it Clintonite. Lock up those super predators . We’re outta your hair. You fix it.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Ok you fix it Clintonite. Lock em up!

You are arguing a straw man.

 

[bomberfox]

Mass Incarceration: The Whole Pie 2022

The big picture on how many people are locked up in the United States and why

www.prisonpolicy.org

Mass Incarceration

We are fighting to reduce mass criminalization & incarceration of black and brown communities in the US and to guarantee a more equitable and just society.

www.commoncause.org

You know the war on drugs is a federal thing ;p.

 

[bomberfox]

You are arguing a straw man.

You get what you give most of the time. You are just excusing a federal policy which is having the intended results of incarcerating the most people it can get away with. Fix it on your own. Im not going to stop advocating against the batshit insane mass incarceration system Clinton and Biden gleefully helped develop.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Mass Incarceration: The Whole Pie 2022

The big picture on how many people are locked up in the United States and why

www.prisonpolicy.org

Mass Incarceration

We are fighting to reduce mass criminalization & incarceration of black and brown communities in the US and to guarantee a more equitable and just society.

www.commoncause.org

You know the war on drugs is a federal thing ;p.

There is a federal, state, and local war on drugs. For example, where I live, you don't get charged with simple possession. Walk 2 blocks over to the next municipality and you could be charged.

Federal prisons account for only a small percentage of mass incarceration:

 

[bomberfox]

There is a federal, state, and local war on drugs. For example, where I live, you don't get charged with simple possession. Walk 2 blocks over to the next municipality and you could be charged.

Federal prisons account for only a small percentage of mass incarceration:

Thats the whole intent of the war on drugs and the tough on crime policies that you champion.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Thats the whole intent of the war on drugs and the tough on crime policies that you champion.

When did I champion the war on drugs?

Let's say that someone walks into the Patagonia Store and right in front of everyone, they gather up as many items as they can put into a bag, and then walk out in front of everyone there with hundreds of dollars worth of goods. Should they face criminal prosecution or not?

Let's say someone vandalizes a store causing thousands of dollars worth of damage. Should they face criminal prosecution or not?

 

[bomberfox]

The ball is in your court now. I mean us “extremists” (my generation) wont matter much before long so. If you arent for mass incarceration, you sure love voting for the politicians that gave us that system.