• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Our Government Has Failed US

No this isn't hyperbole, and this isn't a shrouded pot shot at the already unfavorable Bush administration. This is honest feelings about the current state of affairs and the way our Government operates to it's core levels. And how we as citizens have allowed the darkest of our demons to operate and do what they pleased to whomever they pleased all for the sake of "National Security." Yes, this is torture.

Torture, or what the CIA might call it "Enhanced Interrogation Tactics" is one of the worst things we can do to another human being. There is no way you could look at what the CIA did and not call it torture. We did all of this for National Security, we did this because of how shaken we became from 9/11. Ever since Terrorists sent planes into our windows we suddenly gave up whatever morality we had left and committed deplorable acts against our fellow man. Whoever we deemed as a "threat" we put them through hell and back. Some of them never made it back. Some people we put through this torture were so mentally broken from what the CIA and our Government did to them they can no longer function in society.

Worst of all, we allowed this to happen. We the citizens of the United States should be just as accountable for the actions of the CIA as much as the CIA should be held accountable for torture. After all, the same people among us who defended the actions of the Patriot Act. Where we allowed the NSA and other Government groups to spy into our EMails, phone calls, and our private information to route terrorism. They are the same people who try to downplay the immoral and disgusting things we did to other human beings to route Terrorism. We've become so numb to what we are willing to do as a Country to defend ourselves from the boogyman of Terrorism that some of us look at the EIT report and go "Meh." That reaction, that total lack of empathy and humanity perhaps disgusts me more than the actual acts of torture itself.

Our government failed us then, and our government fails us now. President Obama is more than capable of reforming the CIA, he's more than capable of ending the Patriot Act, yet he himself chose to extend the Patriot Act. He himself chose to bomb anywhere that even remotely stinks of Terrorism with drone strikes. With a flick of the wrists of some Engineer we can end the lives of dozens of people from the comfort of a Military Base. Yet we have Liberals who defend these actions, all for the sake of "National Security." It's sickening. It hurts me to the very core that we have become so afraid of monsters that we lash out and became the monsters ourselves to defend ourselves. We wear the horns on our heads and some of us wear them with pride.

Even while we wear those horns, and carry our demonic pitchfork the United States carries itself as the Police of the World. We have the largest stick, we make the rules on what's right and what's wrong. When Syria starts gassing it's own people, the world looks to us. They look the United States and see what we do to stop it. When Saddam was mustard gassing his own people, we invaded the country as a war effort to stop him. We called it a move to bring safety, to bring stability to the world. Yet if the United States starts torturing people for the sake of preventing Terrorism, are we really any different from the Viet Cong who shoved bamboo under fingernails?

Yet with all of this information coming to light, we do nothing about it. The Operatives who committed these horrible acts continue to walk as free men. The agency continues to defend its actions, they look us in the face and call people like Feinstein the monsters for daring to call force feeding, and beatings as what it is, torture. It's disgusting how quickly people rallied against the report because it was written by Democrats. It is appalling that we are making this about red and blue when we as people, we as a country should look at Torture and go "This isn't right, this needs to be stopped."

We'll stick to our guns in the end. The proud Conservatives among us will continue defending Torture because it was being committed on men and women we call Terrorists. The little name that is enough to numb us to the idea of treating captives of anything less than humane. The Liberals in America will wag their finger at torture, yet won't do anything to change or stop it. If we want to change this, if we want to truly hold ourselves as this Moral Utopia of justice and liberty we need to take action in ending torture programs, we need to take action in protecting our privacy from the government. We need to get out from under the blanket of "National Security" and face our own demons before we battle other demons.
 
Meh I don't criticize Feinstein for releasing the report, I criticize her because as ranking Democrat on the Senate intelligence committee and she had access to all of the information regarding CIA torture for years and never said anything about it until her party was defeated in recent elections. She is also a war profiteer.
 
What hysteria.

Is torture uniformly and in all cases bad? Many people say so, but I'm not convinced.

Torture is like violence. Is violence always bad? Violence used to attack ourselves, or family, our friends, our home is bad. Violence used in the defense of family, friends, home and hearth is good, most people would say. It depends what it is used for. Torture used to prevent terrorist attacks and save the lives of what potentially could be many thousands of Americans? "Torture" that leaves the target alive and uninjured? Torture used against a piece of human filth who wants to see us all dead is bad? Hummmm.....
 
LowDown;bt2975 said:
What hysteria.

Is torture uniformly and in all cases bad? Many people say so, but I'm not convinced.

Torture is like violence. Is violence always bad? Violence used to attack ourselves, or family, our friends, our home is bad. Violence used in the defense of family, friends, home and hearth is good, most people would say. It depends what it is used for. Torture used to prevent terrorist attacks and save the lives of what potentially could be many thousands of Americans? "Torture" that leaves the target alive and uninjured? Torture used against a piece of human filth who wants to see us all dead is bad? Hummmm.....


Both of these statements are untrue. The torture has killed a man, and the majority of the information the CIA gathered from torture methods were proven to have been obtained from means outside of the torture methods. You can glorify and romanticize torture all you like, but there's no excuse to lie about it.
 
The United States government has failed its' citizens. It has been a huge success for Corporate America and the defense Plutocracy, Oligarchy and the rise of the .o1%. We have created monster banks on an International scale, monster intelligence Agencies on an International scale, monster Corporations on an International scale and are likely to reap the rewards/backflash in the near term. We need to realign as a government of the people, instead of a government of the Corporations.
 
Funny people see the CIA, NSA activity so negatively. Sure, there were excesses and mishaps. Some of the individual excesses might be classified as torture. The preps should be prosecuted.
No question there.
But the program all round seems to have been successful enough. It was not torture to anyone that complains they were, is just taking loosely and thereby harming the country.
No question there.
 
We'll stick to our guns in the end. The proud Conservatives among us will continue defending Torture because it was being committed on men and women we call Terrorists.

You had me until this part. Weren't more than a few fighting in Iraq?

I'm thinking primarily of Abed Hamed Mowhoush

was an air vice-marshal believed to be in command of the transport, logistics and airlifting division of the Iraqi Air Force during the regime of Saddam Hussein immediately prior to the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, until his surrender to United States forces on 10 November 2003. He died on 26 November 2003 while in U.S. custody at the Al-Qaim detention facility approximately 200 miles (320 km) northwest of Baghdad, following a 16-day period of detention that included intense beatings and the use of violent and illegal torture

It's a matter of honor, for our troops that torture NOT be used, IMHO.
 
I was around sixteen when the September 11th attacks happened and a junior about the time we went to war with Iraq. I was more congnizant of political affairs than my peers but only just forming a solidified political identity. I was somewhat left even then, but somewhat undecided on preemptive attacks and foriegn policy as a whole. I grew up under normalized depictions of 'military actions' from a Democratic president, and this whole affair hardened my heart against all of it. This is exactly why I am staunchly non-interventionalist to this day.

At the time, that whether or not we should be conducting torture was almost a comical farce of what I thought should be expected of The United States of America. I thought, back then, that this would be over, and we would somehow return to the flowery image I had of our nation just as soon as the opposition party was in control. I then watched in horror, for the next eight years, as Obama hung too closely to the policies of the previous administration, while the right could only lambaste him on such nonsensical things such as his middle name, accusation of him being a Muslim (like that would be so much worse than a Christian) all while Obama gleefully bragged about being like a conservative and while he defended the very same fourth-amendment violations that he had critisized as a senator.

It should be no surprise to anyone who is paying attention, that we have arrived at Trump. This is the consequence of allowing a downward spiral to persist.
 
Back
Top Bottom