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Osama's letter to America.

Gandhi>Bush said:
I know what you mean. I was expecting a monster. He sounded incredibly articulate.

CanadianGuy: I don't know what you mean.

I don't understand what you mean. I also doubt he actually wrote the letter :roll:
 
cnredd said:
Hannibal Lecter...They should be locked up, not considered a leader because they "have a few good points".
I completely agree...I don't know why you're arguing with me, and I've never said anything implying that they were good leaders. I said bin Laden was a strong leader, meaning that he's brought a bunch of poor people together in a massive terrorist network. I was in no way saying I condoned or would accept him as a leader, but the fact is he is a leader. And a few good points does not a leader make, and I have never thought or said so.

And I'm really confused as to why you're arguing with me. :confused:
 
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rudy0908 said:
I completely agree...I don't know why you're arguing with me, and I've never said anything implying that they were good leaders. I said bin Laden was a strong leader, meaning that he's brought a bunch of poor people together in a massive terrorist network. I was in no way saying I condoned or would accept him as a leader, but the fact is he is a leader. And a few good points does not a leader make.

And I'm really confused as to why you're arguing with me. :confused:

Yes and you are being confusing you just said he was a bad leader then a good leader and really I'm not sure your reading over your posts before posting. :roll:
 
rudy0908 said:
I completely agree...I don't know why you're arguing with me, and I've never said anything implying that they were good leaders. I said bin Laden was a strong leader, meaning that he's brought a bunch of poor people together in a massive terrorist network. I was in no way saying I condoned or would accept him as a leader, but the fact is he is a leader. And a few good points does not a leader make.

And I'm really confused as to why you're arguing with me. :confused:

"Argue" is a harsh word...I waz fuuzy in understanding your comments...or you were fuzzy in portraying them...either or... no biggie... :2wave:
 
CanadianGuy said:
I don't understand what you mean. I also doubt he actually wrote the letter :roll:

Really? Who do you think wrote it?
 
I'll be drunk in about four hours....I'll come back and say, "Wow...everthing is so clear now!"
 
CanadianGuy said:
Yes and you are being confusing you just said he was a bad leader then a good leader and really I'm not sure your reading over your posts before posting.
OK, heres what I said originally:
"[bin laden is] a strong leader for his band of terrorists"

I then clarified that I meant:
"...bin Laden was a strong leader, meaning that he's brought a bunch of poor people together in a massive terrorist network"

I have never said he was a good leader. You are the one who needs to read my posts before posting. If I'm wrong, then show me where. Nor did I ever say he was a bad leader. Why are you changing my words around?
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
Really? Who do you think wrote it?

How am I supposed to know? He has so many minions it could be any one just like when a famous person writes a bio they have a person they tell stuff to and they make it good.
 
rudy0908 said:
OK, heres what I said originally:
"[bin laden is] a strong leader for his band of terrorists"

I then clarified that I meant:
"...bin Laden was a strong leader, meaning that he's brought a bunch of poor people together in a massive terrorist network"

I have never said he was a good leader. You are the one who needs to read my posts before posting. If I'm wrong, then show me where. Nor did I ever say he was a bad leader. Why are you changing my words around?

A strong leader means the same thing as a good one to me. You don't really have facts though. Terrorists have been around for awhile and finding out how to make a bomb aand getting guns from your local dictator or coffee shop isn't that hard to do.
 
CanadianGuy said:
A strong leader means the same thing as a good one to me. You don't really have facts though. Terrorists have been around for awhile and finding out how to make a bomb aand getting guns from your local dictator or coffee shop isn't that hard to do.
If thats the way you see it, then I wouldn't consider bin Laden a strong leader. Its true I don't have any facts to back that up and I'd agree that making bombs probably isn't that hard. But nobody else has organized an internation terror organization like he has.

I feel the need to reiterate that he is an evil person.
 
rudy0908 said:
If thats the way you see it, then I wouldn't consider bin Laden a strong leader. Its true I don't have any facts to back that up and I'd agree that making bombs probably isn't that hard. But nobody else has organized an internation terror organization like he has.

I feel the need to reiterate that he is an evil person.

I am glad you said that last statement without it i'd be worried :roll:
 
CanadianGuy said:
How am I supposed to know? He has so many minions it could be any one just like when a famous person writes a bio they have a person they tell stuff to and they make it good.

So they're still his ideas, you think?
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
So they're still his ideas, you think?

I'm not sure. But I doubt he wrote it himself if he was sending it to all the civilized world. Maybe a first draft in a conference room but nothing more.
 
CanadianGuy said:
I am glad you said that last statement without it i'd be worried :roll:
I'm glad it served some good then. ;)
 
Just a thought.

Osama sure didn't mind the ol' red, white and blue when it came time to fight the Russians.

"Crate full of Stingers for Osama"

"Yes, I'll take them. Where do I sign? Thank you. Allah bless you".
 
Arch Enemy said:
is that "good" is nothing more than a perspective!

Utter bullshit. Work a "good" perspective in with targeting of children with bombs. There is ultimate right and wrong.

To Gandhi,

And if Osama is so damn smart, how come he didn't foresee losing his base of power (Afghanistan) as a result of 9/11?

And this thought just came to me:

One reason we might not be trying so hard to "get" Osama.

He's probably in the hills of Pakistan. A Muslim stronghold that Mushareffe barely holds power on. If we "get" Osama a Palestinian national uprising is possible. Pakistan turns into a theocratic nation with crazy Imams with nukes. Hmmmmm?
 
I don't give a rat’s rear end. He killed 3,000 innocent people.

I am not in any way shape or form about to justify what he did, but to keep things in perspective:

1945: 2 atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. How many innocent civilians did we kill?


Obviously Bin Laden follows the American news very closely, because if you notice he addresses many questions thatare usually raised in the media. That makes me think that he must be watching satellite tv (probably stealing it - lol) so I wonder how many caves in Afghanistan have satellite dishes on top?! ;) :lol:
 
teacher said:
Utter bullshit. Work a "good" perspective in with targeting of children with bombs. There is ultimate right and wrong.

You really think that Usama bin Laden sits in a cave thinking, "I'm an evil bastard AHAHAHAHA. I kill infidel children HALALALALALALALA." He believes that we are responsible for the deaths of far more children. You read the letter I presume, he obviously has an eye for an eye policy about him. Such is a policy of many people in the world. Someone hits you, you hit back....

As the Mahatma would say, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind," but for some reason I doubt that Satygraha is high on bin Laden's reading list.

To Gandhi,

And if Osama is so damn smart, how come he didn't foresee losing his base of power (Afghanistan) as a result of 9/11?

I'm sure he did forsee it... THAT'S WHY WE DIDN'T CATCH HIM :lol: !!

And this thought just came to me:

One reason we might not be trying so hard to "get" Osama.

He's probably in the hills of Pakistan. A Muslim stronghold that Mushareffe barely holds power on. If we "get" Osama a Palestinian national uprising is possible. Pakistan turns into a theocratic nation with crazy Imams with nukes. Hmmmmm?

BUT THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE THEY'RE OUR ALLY :eek: !!!
 
Gandhi...Vandree, you are a dangerous individuals. If left to your rose tinted visions, we'd all be enslaved in some way or form. Get with the program. It is attitudes like yours that allow evil to thrive. This is not about civil rights. This is about criminality and insanity. I've said it before, without education on the issues that threaten your lifestyle, your opinions do not serve you very well as you continue to display your ignorance on matters.

There are two types of terrorists. The practical and the apocalyptic. The practical terrorist may be phsycologically unbalanced, but he does not disregard the value of human life entirely. He may commit grand gestures in frustration or desperation, but he continues to see himself as the representative of an earthly agenda, not as a divine missionary. His hellish counterpart, the apocalyptic terrorist is mentally divorced from our world and it's values. The practical terrorist has dreams, but the apocalyptic is lost in a nightmare. Practical terrorists may see acts of retribution as a tactical means, but apocalyptic terrorists view themselves tools of a divine and uncomprimising retribution against unbelievers. The terrorists "martyrs" of 9/11 will forever be remembered by Islamic historians and by generations of Muslim children as heroes in the struggle for true religion and justice. This makes it all the more vital that we kill Osama Bin Laden, destroy Al-Queda and the Taliban, and any other government that would support these types of organizations. If Bin-Laden survives to thumb his nose at an "impotent superpower", he will attract legions of other Muslims support and sympathizers. He is an apocalyptic terrorist of the worst kind and his superficial agenda of deposing the Saudi government and expelling U.S. troops from the Middle East, is nothing compared to his compulsion to slaughter and destroy.

Although his vision is closer to the grimmest passages of Revelation than to anything in the Koran, Osama has been able to convince countless Muslims that his vision is of the purist and proudest Islamic form. This should be a huge warning flag to the west about the spiritual crisis in the Middle East. This battle is being fought within the realms of the emotions and soul, not of the intelligent. We face a situation that is so perverse that it is as if tens of millions of frustrated Christians decided that Kali, the Hindu Goddess of death and destruction, embodies the true teachings of Jesus Christ. One cannot have much sympathy with Osama bin Laden, whose vision of a vengeful god, thirsty for infidel blood, is utter blasphemy. Nor could any decent human being excuse the acts of terror committed by his followers, or by Palestinian suicide bombers or by any of the morally crippled youths who murder in the name of their religion. You can preach all about how Osama is someone that we should understand - how he is just misunderstood - how he is intelligent and can be reached in the interest of peace and love and harmony, but what you are only doing in the end, by giving his work legitimacy, is trolling for Al-Queda. Bin-Laden is a tool created and used by his Arab masters for people like you to sympathize with and "understand." Corruption and hypocrisy may be elements of the human condition, but Arab elites have developed them to a superhuman extreme. If they could, they would steal the air itself and charge the poor for breathing.

Preventing as many attacks as we can, killing or capturing terrorists, destroying terrorist organizations - are essential goals, but they focus on surface tumors while ignoring the cancer beneath. The security environment will improve as Osama and his most virulent supporters are killed. Eliminating terrorist operatives, masterminds and supportive dictators (Saddam) brings vital results. But we will never reduce Islamic terrorism to nuisance level unless we address the greater evil behind the deadly strikes. It is possible to recognize that the majority of the lower-rank terrorists whose lives their overlords throw away so callously have been set up psychologically by the corruption and hopelessness of their societies - and those societies have been wrecked by Arabs and other Muslims to whom we cling as partners and whom we even imagine to be our friends. For what I know about Bin-Laden and for all the blood on his hands, Osama has higher ethical standards than our Arab "friends", despite the fact that they created him.

Strange how many people hold the well intentions and actions of President Bush as evil, yet see the acts of 9/11 as an act committed by a great guy that just wants to be heard, because he had a "legitimate" reason. Some of your are just as perverted and warped as he is. I guess the Middle Eastern Cleric has you fooled too.
 
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GySgt said:
Gandhi...Vandree, you are a dangerous individuals. If left to your rose tinted visions, we'd all be enslaved in some way or form. Get with the program. It is attitudes like yours that allow evil to thrive. This is not about civil rights. This is about criminality and insanity. I've said it before, without education on the issues that threaten your lifestyle, your opinions do not serve you very well as you continue to display your ignorance on matters.

I've done as much reading and research as I can. My opinions are my own. I must say that if I am what allows evil to thrive, you are what allows evil to exist.

There are two types of terrorists. The practical and the apocalyptic. The practical terrorist may be phsycologically unbalanced, but he does not disregard the value of human life entirely. He may commit grand gestures in frustration or desperation, but he continues to see himself as the representative of an earthly agenda, not as a divine missionary. His hellish counterpart, the apocalyptic terrorist is mentally divorced from our world and it's values. The practical terrorist has dreams, but the apocalyptic is lost in a nightmare. Practical terrorists may see acts of retribution as a tactical means, but apocalyptic terrorists view themselves tools of a divine and uncomprimising retribution against unbelievers. The terrorists "martyrs" of 9/11 will forever be remembered by Islamic historians and by generations of Muslim children as heroes in the struggle for true religion and justice. This makes it all the more vital that we kill Osama Bin Laden, destroy Al-Queda and the Taliban, and any other government that would support these types of organizations. If Bin-Laden survives to thumb his nose at an "impotent superpower", he will attract legions of other Muslims support and sympathizers. He is an apocalyptic terrorist of the worst kind and his superficial agenda of deposing the Saudi government and expelling U.S. troops from the Middle East, is nothing compared to his compulsion to slaughter and destroy.

Based on what I read both in teacher's and in Surenderer's posts, I do not think he matches your description of the Apocalyptic Terrorist. As for your thoughts about genarations of Islamic children cheering those that flew planes into the world trade center, I'd say you're right. We've given them no reason to think otherwise.

Although his vision is closer to the grimmest passages of Revelation than to anything in the Koran, Osama has been able to convince countless Muslims that his vision is of the purist and proudest Islamic form. This should be a huge warning flag to the west about the spiritual crisis in the Middle East. This battle is being fought within the realms of the emotions and soul, not of the intelligent. We face a situation that is so perverse that it is as if tens of millions of frustrated Christians decided that Kali, the Hindu Goddess of death and destruction, embodies the true teachings of Jesus Christ. One cannot have much sympathy with Osama bin Laden, whose vision of a vengeful god, thirsty for infidel blood, is utter blasphemy. Nor could any decent human being excuse the acts of terror committed by his followers, or by Palestinian suicide bombers or by any of the morally crippled youths who murder in the name of their religion. You can preach all about how Osama is someone that we should understand - how he is just misunderstood - how he is intelligent and can be reached in the interest of peace and love and harmony, but what you are only doing in the end, by giving his work legitimacy, is trolling for Al-Queda. Bin-Laden is a tool created and used by his Arab masters for people like you to sympathize with and "understand." Corruption and hypocrisy may be elements of the human condition, but Arab elites have developed them to a superhuman extreme. If they could, they would steal the air itself and charge the poor for breathing.

Did you read his letter? Only small parts of it were about hating us because of our religion. Do you think that I shoudl turn a blind eye to anything has to say? Just let the bombs keep dropping and cars keep exploding? Not the slightest objection?

Preventing as many attacks as we can, killing or capturing terrorists, destroying terrorist organizations - are essential goals, but they focus on surface tumors while ignoring the cancer beneath. The security environment will improve as Osama and his most virulent supporters are killed. Eliminating terrorist operatives, masterminds and supportive dictators (Saddam) brings vital results. But we will never reduce Islamic terrorism to nuisance level unless we address the greater evil behind the deadly strikes. It is possible to recognize that the majority of the lower-rank terrorists whose lives their overlords throw away so callously have been set up psychologically by the corruption and hopelessness of their societies - and those societies have been wrecked by Arabs and other Muslims to whom we cling as partners and whom we even imagine to be our friends. For what I know about Bin-Laden and for all the blood on his hands, Osama has higher ethical standards than our Arab "friends", despite the fact that they created him.

I think it would be wise to stop supporting those countries, don't you?

Do you really think that the death of Usama bin Laden would help the cause to end Islamic terrorism?

Strange how many people hold the well intentions and actions of President Bush as evil, yet see the acts of 9/11 as an act committed by a great guy that just wants to be heard, because he had a "legitimate" reason. Some of your are just as perverted and warped as he is.

We've had discussions before. You know how I feel about killing. Surely you don't think that I would call him a "great guy?" I promise you, I don't. Did you read his letter?
 
I've read enough of his vomit to dismiss anything I haven't read. I give him no quarter in my mind. He is a sick individual that somehow doesn't even know his own religion. He mixes religions as he sees fit and has created his own blood cult under the guise of Islam. This is all about power and he really doesn't care about "Allah". He has created his own God and blasphemes against all true people of Islam.

As always, you take on the apologetic view point and would rather grovel at their feet and beg forgiveness for things we didn't do instead of fighting back and defending your way of life. You have your opinions because other men keep you that right, by doing the things you find dispicable. Living under the oppressions of the Arab world, your opinions would be very internal. Their oppressions are the result of their own leadership. Their oppressions and terrorist breeding is of their own doing. Our vision has been clouded in the interests of Europe's and Asia's oil supply and we have kept some of these governments in place. For that we were wrong. These "martyrs" should be taking their temper tantrums out on their own governments, but they won't because their governments tell them that it is our fault. We are facing a crumbling civilization that is digging deep into their Korans and following any kind of leadership that would help them compete amongst the other world religions and the societies they are based upon - no matter what agenda that leader has or how he has perverted their religion.

This may surprise you, but not everything that happens to you is your fault. I get the feeling that every time something bad happens to you, you look inside yourself for the blame. You have played right into Bin-Laden and his master's hands. You are the weakness they prey on collectively throughout the world.

"Just let the bombs keep dropping and cars keep exploding?"

More twisted logic. Our bombs fall on military targets and incidentally kill civillians in proximity. Cars exploding are intended for civillians and are the tool of what you try to give legitimacy to.
 
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GySgt said:
I've read enough of his vomit to dismiss anything I haven't read. I give him no quarter in my mind. He is a sick individual that somehow doesn't even know his own religion. He mixes religions as he sees fit and has created his own blood cult under the guise of Islam. This is all about power and he really doesn't care about "Allah". He has created his own God and blasphemes against all true people of Islam.

?

...You didn't read it? As one man once told me, "without education on the issues that threaten your lifestyle, your opinions do not serve you very well as you continue to display your ignorance on matters."

As always, you take on the apologetic view point and would rather grovel at their feet and beg forgiveness for things we didn't do instead of fighting back and defending your way of life. You have your opinions because other men keep you that right, by doing the things you find dispicable. Living under the oppressions of the Arab world, your opinions would be very internal. Their oppressions are the result of their own leadership. Their oppressions and terrorist breeding is of their own doing. Our vision has been clouded in the interests of Europe's and Asia's oil supply and we have kept some of these governments in place. For that we were wrong. These "martyrs" should be taking their temper tantrums out on their own governments, but they won't because their governments tell them that it is our fault. We are facing a crumbling civilization that is digging deep into their Korans and following any kind of leadership that would help them compete amongst the other world religions and the societies they are based upon - no matter what agenda that leader has or how he has perverted their religion.

This may surprise you, but not everything that happens to you is your fault. I get the feeling that every time something bad happens to you, you look inside yourself for the blame. You have played right into Bin-Laden and his master's hands. You are the weakness they prey on collectively throughout the world.

Leaders have agendas and it is easy for them to condemn compassion and understanding as weakness, but what is a leader without followers? Followers understand such things. If we're talking about killing terrorists, your methods are quite effective. If we're talking about killing terrorism, I think you're working backwards.
 
I did read it. I read it before it was placed on this site. Like all of his drivel I have read, it all reads the same and serves as recruitment propaganda to the misguided and confused. If the effects weren't so tragic, his views to world peace would be comical. In his warped mind, he has waged war on infidels and is not interested in peace. Being such a role model to us all, I would think you would be able to see through his garbage. Gandhi and King Jr. would.

Killing Islamic terrorism is a fight that we have to start at it's fringes. winning the hearts and minds of the Indonesians and Indians and to what is left of the Pakistanis (that are under the influence of it's tattered government) is our best option. We didn't see the crumble of the USSR by attacking Moscow. We held it's advances in places like Vietnam and Korea. Their society fell apart on their own. Likewise, the arab world has made a suicide pact with oil. They too will one day crumble.

Sparking change in the Middle East like we did in Iraq gave them an opportunity that they would have not otherwise gotten. Whether they take advantage of what we have given them or not is up to them. They will fail or succeed. Either way, it isn't up to us anymore. We gave them the chance.
 
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GySgt said:
I did read it. I read it before it was placed on this site. Like all of his drivel I have read, it all reads the same and serves as recruitment propaganda to the misguided and confused. If the effects weren't so tragic, his views to world peace would be comical. In his warped mind, he has waged war on infidels and is not interested in peace. Being such a role model to us all, I would think you would be able to see through his garbage. Gandhi and King Jr. would.

Yes... You're absolutely right... Mahtama Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. would be for the war and they would be against understanding... Ohh wait. That's not true.

Killing Islamic terrorism is a fight that we have to start at it's fringes. winning the hearts and minds of the Indonesians and Indians and to what is left of the Pakistanis (that are under the influence of it's tattered government) is our best option. We didn't see the crumble of the USSR by attacking Moscow. We held it's advances in places like Vietnam and Korea. Their society fell apart on their own. Likewise, the arab world has made a suicide pact with oil. They too will one day crumble.

What type of government does Vietnam and N. Korea have today?
 
"What type of government does Vietnam and N. Korea have today?"

What do you care? It's protesters like you that never want a finished job. The people of both countries wanted our help and aside from fighting communists, we also fought our own protesters and politicians. The war was between Democracy and Communism. Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and other places is where the battle ground took place. The USSR fell because it could not keep up with our convictions and resolve.

"Yes... You're absolutely right... Mahtama Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. would be for the war and they would be against understanding... Ohh wait. That's not true."

You use these great names to further your ignorance. You glorify their names, yet you undermine their intelligence. They would recognize exactly what is going on in the Middle East and they would recognize that it has nothing to do with the trivial matters that you focus on. They would not be supporters for the war, but they would recognize that it is not us that has waged war on them. They would see through the BS that Bin Laden uses to offer credibility to his mass murder and carnage. It is the Arab world that continue to insist that they are at war with us and it is your failure to see the truths involved that give them legitamacy.
 
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