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Osama Bin Laden. Did the White House just give up?

shuamort

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But four days later, on 10 April 2002, army secretary Thomas White said that one of America’s ‘strategic objectives’ in Afghanistan is ‘to get bin Laden…and we are pursuing that’ 3. Asked if the war on terror could only be hailed a success once bin Laden was found, White said yes – claiming that ‘no one said it was going to be easy’ 4.

‘I truly am not that concerned about him’, said President George W Bush on 13 March 2002, after being asked the million-dollar question ‘where is bin Laden?’ once too often 5. ‘Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he’s alive at all’, said Bush, brushing bin Laden off as ‘a person who has now been marginalized’ 6.

But a week later, on 21 March 2002, US commanders claimed that bin Laden and co are ‘still a threat in the new Afghanistan’. Major-general Frank Hagenbeck warned that ‘there are al-Qaeda operatives in Paktia right now, who are going to great lengths to regroup’ 7 – while CIA director George Tenet claimed that bin Laden remains an ‘immediate and serious threat’ 8.
So what's it come down to?
Bruce Willis has offered a $1 million reward for anybody who captures or provides information that leads to capturing Osama Bin Laden and his followers, Ayman Al Zawahiri and Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, the ones that are thought to have planed the September 11th attacks.

(Apparently Bruce forgot that the US already has a $25M bounty on his head too, but if Hollywood wants to kick in, so be it).

Should Bin Laden once again be a priority?
 

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Perhaps Bush thought he was hiding in Iraq. Why else would he invade a sovereign country?
 

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shuamort said:
It seems just amazing, to me, that this question even has to be asked. Of course we should be giving bin Laden a priority. He should have been the priority all along. His organization killed 3000 Americans on 9/11.

We knew bin Laden was in Afganistan. We had there a country where it had been wracked by decades of war, and domination by a radical frundamentalist group (the Taliban). Instead of putting the army there, and making Afganistan (where we had a legitimate basis for intervention) the model for a democratic free Islamic nation, we put 8500 guys there (more recently upped to 20,000), and treat the guy who attacked us and Afganistan as an afterthought.

Meanwhile, we put the bulk of our available forces into invading a country that did not attack us, whose leader was never implicated in a terrorist attack or supporting terrorists against us, in what was, at best, an action of questionable legitimacy.

I just don't get it. The only way this makes sense is that the pro-Isreal neocon group, who dominate this Administration, wanted to move against Iraq because Iraq represented a greater threat to Isreal, rather than concentrate on Afganistan, where America's real enemy is. Or was. That is the only way it makes sense. Doesn't make sense to me as a policy in American's best interest, but makes sense to explain why this Admin did what it did.
 

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In Short....Yes


He should have been a freakin' priority from 9/12 on.....shoulda, coulda...didnt
 

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Simply put: Iraq was a scapegoat for the inefficiency of the U.S. government in Afghanistan. They're both Arabic nations, and non-white people have often been the victims of the American government's tyrrany.
 
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GySgt said:
How little you people know.
The fundamental problem with a democracy.

But hell, we can't be much more off than these guys:

Donald Rumsfeld, 3/7/03:

It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.

Vice President Dick Cheney, 3/16/03:

I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . (in) weeks rather than months
 

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Iriemon said:
The fundamental problem with a democracy.

But hell, we can't be much more off than these guys:

Donald Rumsfeld, 3/7/03:

It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.

Vice President Dick Cheney, 3/16/03:

I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . (in) weeks rather than months
They were right. The war didn't last that long. Even they didn't fully appreciate what a "war on terror" meant. Iraq is only a battle ground.

...and Osama is still being hunted. The media just doesn't care to cover it like they do Iraq and Bush contriversey.
 

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GySgt said:
The media just doesn't care to cover it like they do Iraq and Bush contriversey.
If Bush had any brains, there wouldn't be any controversy.:lol:
 

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shuamort said:
Here's an article from conservative news source Worldnetdaily and conservative columnish Joseph Farah who's wondering the same thing as I:

Does Bush care about bin Laden?
Opinions based on emotion. The fact is that Special Forces and regular Forces within the Marine Corps and the Army are still on the ground and still hunting for Bin Laden. They are restricted where they can go, because of the terrain. Helos can only fly so high and they are extremely vulnerable to attack. Last I checked the motor pool, our donkeys and asses were all broken. Military intel has him located on the Pakistani side within this mountain range. If you are belly aching over the 2000 dead in Iraq, I'd love to hear the vomitous spewing from the amount of death that would be inflicted on us while we hunted for "one" man.

Bin Laden is a living martyr for every Arab that views us as the enemy and every Arab that crosses into the extremist camp. He must be killed and all that are involved know it. We will get him, when we get him.

In the mean time, we are still stuck staring at a civilization that acts as a recruitment pool for terrorist organizations and as long as we neglected this, our efforts of chasing individuals around the world would be neverending.
 

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Iriemon said:
The fundamental problem with a democracy.

But hell, we can't be much more off than these guys:

Donald Rumsfeld, 3/7/03:

It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.

Vice President Dick Cheney, 3/16/03:

I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . (in) weeks rather than months
GySgt said:
They were right. The war didn't last that long. Even they didn't fully appreciate what a "war on terror" meant. Iraq is only a battle ground.

...and Osama is still being hunted. The media just doesn't care to cover it like they do Iraq and Bush contriversey.
I guess I missed that distinction between the six week war "war" they were talking about and indefinite "battleground" we got.
 

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Iriemon said:
I guess I missed that distinction between the six week war "war" they were talking about and indefinite "battleground" we got.
Yes, I guess their crystal ball didn't have energizers like yours does.:roll:
Stop bitchin'.

The war ended when it ended. What "we" got was inevitable and would have come no matter where we were. This includes if we had just stayed in Afghanistan.
 

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GySgt said:
Opinions based on emotion. The fact is that Special Forces and regular Forces within the Marine Corps and the Army are still on the ground and still hunting for Bin Laden. They are restricted where they can go, because of the terrain.
I admit I am not a modern military tactics expert, but do you think the fact that we only had 8500 troops total in Afganistan for the first couple years had anything to do with how restricted our efforts at hunting bin Laden were?

Bin Laden is a living martyr for every Arab that views us as the enemy and every Arab that crosses into the extremist camp. He must be killed and all that are involved know it. We will get him, when we get him.
You figure he's hiding in Iraq somewhere? That is were we have the vast bulk of available troops.

In the mean time, we are still stuck staring at a civilization that acts as a recruitment pool for terrorist organizations and as long as we neglected this, our efforts of chasing individuals around the world would be neverending.
Well, we've killed about 30,000 of "them" so far and that hasn't worked. What next?
 

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GySgt said:
The war ended when it ended.
LOL, and it will end when it ends.
 

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Iriemon said:
I admit I am not a modern military tactics expert, but do you think the fact that we only had 8500 troops total in Afganistan for the first couple years had anything to do with how restricted our efforts at hunting bin Laden were?
Don't know. He wasn't expected to flee to the mountains though. If he wasn't caught after we attacked, he was expected to flee to the safety of another location. As it was, he fled to an area where he knows intimately and in doing so, he has trapped himself there.

Iriemon said:
You figure he's hiding in Iraq somewhere? That is were we have the vast bulk of available troops.
I just said that he is assumed to be on the Pakistani side of the mountain range. Numbers do not matter. The terrain is so tight, that there is not any room for a battalion to maneuver. This is a special forces and smaller forces operation.


Iriemon said:
Well, we've killed about 30,000 of "them" so far and that hasn't worked. What next?
30,000? Are you stupid or do you pretend to be? You are aware that Muslims are killing Muslims? You are aware that there is this thing called a suicide bomber and he likes to blow himself up within crowds of people that constitute much of that 30,000? Try to be intelligent with your garbage.

It's amazing how individuals who make no desicions on this, wear no uniform, have no understanding of terrorism, no understanding of the Middle East, no understanding of what the threat is, yet has nothing but criticism for the individuals that do.
 

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Its nice to see someone step out of their little "Hollyworld" to let America know that not everyone has forgotten about Bin Laden. Its also refreshing to hear a Hollywood elite make a comment about the war thats not outof tuen with reality. Even if Buce did it for exposure, his checkbook was in the right place.
 

tecoyah

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GySgt said:
It's amazing how individuals who make no desicions on this, wear no uniform, have no understanding of terrorism, no understanding of the Middle East, no understanding of what the threat is, yet has nothing but criticism for the individuals that do.
I am sorry to show direspect Sarge....but it needs to be said. The likelyhood of an undeployed, non commisioned , closed minded soldier having more information, and a better ubderstanding of the implications layed out in our failure to apprehend Bin Laden are quite slim. If by chance you showed some level of original thought, rather than blind adherence to the military line things might be different, but alas they are not. Even your own CIC has made it clear Osama is not a priority, shortly after rumors of his escape from special forces in Afganistan were spread about.
Your claims that people here have no understanding of the Middle east, terrorism, or threat are somewhat rediculous (though I am sure you know the fear far better than we do). Again I am sorry but, simply because you have "Been There" does not make you some sort of expert on middle east policy. Granted some here show a Bias against this war....and are critical of policy and direction, and may even be lacking in critical Data to form a clean picture.....but you are Biased as well.
If you really think Bin Laden needs to be killed......I have one simple question for you:


Why cant the most Powerful and Advanced Military in the world....Kill one Man on a Mule?
 

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GySgt said:
Bin Laden is a living martyr for every Arab that views us as the enemy and every Arab that crosses into the extremist camp. He must be killed and all that are involved know it. We will get him, when we get him.

.
I agree Gyst but would it be better for us if he goes down in a blaze of Allahs glory or die quietly under a rock in the hills of pakistan from kidney complications?


I vote just let him die helpless in a cave and spare us a wave of martyrs.
 

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I really dont think people stop to try and consider just how difficult it is to find this one guy.

give me a dime....Ill paint it red......and hide it on an 18 hole golf course (not nearly the size of the countries this guy could be hiding in huh?) and lets see how long it takes you to find it.
 

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There is no doubt that finding Bin Laden will be near impossible, but the important thing is to keep on searching. Instead, the government has decided to invade a completely different country. This action has cost billions of dollars, thousands of young Americans lives, and a complete destruction of a country's government, and we still have made no progress in the search for Bin Laden.
 

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liberal1 said:
There is no doubt that finding Bin Laden will be near impossible, but the important thing is to keep on searching. Instead, the government has decided to invade a completely different country. This action has cost billions of dollars, thousands of young Americans lives, and a complete destruction of a country's government, and we still have made no progress in the search for Bin Laden.
I would agree completely, if it werent for the fact that your assertion we have stopped looking for Bin Laden is completely unfounded and nothing more than an opinion.

you speak as though we cant possibly be looking for Bin Laden and fighting terrorists in Iraq at the same time. of course we can.

yes the action in Iraq has been expensive. no one ever said the war on terror would be cheap.

and we all also knew the war on terror would cost American soldiers their lives. after all, they did volunteer for it.

and yes, we destroyed a tyranical government responsible for using WMDs on its own people (you know, the WMDs the left now claims dont exist) rape rooms, tossing people off buildings, invading its neighbors, ignoring countless resolutions, breaking a peace treaty, firing on U.S. war planes.....yeah, you mean THAT government?

and your final sentence again is completely unfounded and without proof. give me proof we have called off the search for Bin Laden and I will be the first to condemn the president for that.
 

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ProudAmerican said:
I really dont think people stop to try and consider just how difficult it is to find this one guy.

give me a dime....Ill paint it red......and hide it on an 18 hole golf course (not nearly the size of the countries this guy could be hiding in huh?) and lets see how long it takes you to find it.
Well, your example doesn't work because it doesn't take in the nickels and pennies which are following the leadership of the dime. Your dime isn't also moving around on the golf course making video statements and somehow releasing them to the public.
 

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GySgt said:
30,000? Are you stupid or do you pretend to be? You are aware that Muslims are killing Muslims? You are aware that there is this thing called a suicide bomber and he likes to blow himself up within crowds of people that constitute much of that 30,000? Try to be intelligent with your garbage.
Sorry -- I may be wrong. I'm sure American bombs and bullets haven't killed any Iraqis. What is the official US government count on the number of Iraqi deaths caused by American fire?

It's amazing how individuals who make no desicions on this, wear no uniform, have no understanding of terrorism, no understanding of the Middle East, no understanding of what the threat is, yet has nothing but criticism for the individuals that do.
The "individuals that do" have proven they don't have a clue as to what the hell they are doing either. Either that or they have been just intentionally misleading the American public all along.

But this is another pesky problem with our democracy. Civilians ultimately control the government and the military. Damn. Think how much fun it would be if you didn't have that damned civilian oversight.
 
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