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Orlando Horror Shows Liberals Must Change Their Attitude Toward Homosexuality

Ontologuy

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If you think I've left you with an unanswered question herein, then PM me ..

.. But here are some relevant links to read at your leisure:

Orlando Shooter Omar Mateen Was Gay, Former Classmate Says
Orlando Shooting: Gunman Omar Mateen Was A Closet Homosexual, Say Friends -- As Wife Faces Charges After 'Helping Him Scope Out Attack'
Drag Queen: Anti-Gay Terrorist Omar Mateen Was My Friend
What Has The Orlando Gunman's Father Said
Mir Seddique, Omar Mateen's Father: 5 Fast Facts You Need To Know

In summary:

1. The Orlando shooter, Omar Mateen, was likely either bisexual or homosexual, not publicly open, about which he struggled.
2. The adherents of fundamentalist sects of Islam (like those of Judaism and Christianity) strictly view their old religious texts literally, all such texts state homosexuality is a sin punishable by death.
3. Fundamentalist religion praises and encourages martyrs.
4. Omar Mateen's father, Seddique Mateen, is a Taliban-supporting Islam fundamentalist who now publicly avows that God will punish homosexuals and privately most likely said worse to his son.
5. Omar Mateen appears to have suffered from bipolar disorder, and a bipolar sufferer when swinging back up from depression to mania is at their greatest risk for suicide.
6. Like with the San Bernardino tragedy, the shooter's significant other (Mateen's wife) played a major fundamentalist Islam instigating role in the Orlando radical tragedy.

Put all this together, and the terrible Orlando tragedy is really not all that surprising.

Whether he used an assault rifle (as he did), or C4 strapped to his body, or C4 in a lavishly gift-wrapped box set on a table detonated during his announcement from the microphone, or a van of fertilizer parked out front, or nitroglycerin or other easily made .. or today's backpack-sized nuclear device .. killing many, many more .. the stage was set and the play unstoppable.

So a man who suffered from bipolar disorder, bi/homo -sexuality, an opinionated father and wife, and fundamentalist Islam .. was doomed.

What can be done?

There's currently no cure for bipolar disorder, though symptoms can be relieved albeit the drugs have very unpleasant side effects.

And, science will continue to advance weaponry and the free market will make it available to anyone who wants it.

And, we can't outlaw religion.

But, we can change attitudes, one courageous presentation at a time.

Though only a relatively small number of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (the three social religions) adherents say homosexuality is a sin and those exhibiting related behavior should die, as we keep learning, it only takes one such person in combination with other factors to create a tragedy.

The ancient attitude toward homosexuality in fundamentalist religion sects is in direct defiance of what we scientifically know today: it's not "wrong" to be homosexual, and homosexual behavior is normal for homosexuals. Homosexuality is not a choice -- it's etiology is epigenetic, inculcated during gestation, and the homosexual sex drive is normal for those less than 6% of the population so exhibiting the condition of homo/bi -sexuality via behavior.

And though liberals are relieved that science has backed their statement that "you're born with it" .. they aren't telling the whole accurate-label truth about what homosexuality truly is.

If they did tell the whole truth, that would be the greatest weapon against ancient religious dogma, a weapon for change for the better.

But, liberals don't. They don't tell the whole truth about what homosexuality truly is. And, they censor those who try to speak the scientific truth based name we commonly use today for what homosexuality truly is.

And thus bullying continues .. and persecution continues .. and tragedies continue ... and sympathy and understanding and help that would make a great positive difference, goes sadly lacking.

To paraphrase Christianity's new testament, you will know the truth -- and tell the truth -- and the truth will set you free. Good advice for liberals who are too afraid they will lose some political clout if they tell the truth here.

To all those liberals who want to continue to censor the truth about what homosexuality truly is, and to punish those who tell the truth, Orlando is partially on you.

A word to the wise.
 

shagg

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I may have missed it somewhere in there..... but what exactly is it that liberals want to hide about homosexuality?
 

americanwoman

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If you think I've left you with an unanswered question herein, then PM me ..

.. But here are some relevant links to read at your leisure:

Orlando Shooter Omar Mateen Was Gay, Former Classmate Says


In summary:

1. The Orlando shooter, Omar Mateen, was likely either bisexual or homosexual, not publicly open, about which he struggled.
2. The adherents of fundamentalist sects of Islam (like those of Judaism and Christianity) strictly view their old religious texts literally, all such texts state homosexuality is a sin punishable by death.
3. Fundamentalist religion praises and encourages martyrs.
4. Omar Mateen's father, Seddique Mateen, is a Taliban-supporting Islam fundamentalist who now publicly avows that God will punish homosexuals and privately most likely said worse to his son.
5. Omar Mateen appears to have suffered from bipolar disorder, and a bipolar sufferer when swinging back up from depression to mania is at their greatest risk for suicide.
6. Like with the San Bernardino tragedy, the shooter's significant other (Mateen's wife) played a major fundamentalist Islam instigating role in the Orlando radical tragedy.

Put all this together, and the terrible Orlando tragedy is really not all that surprising.

Whether he used an assault rifle (as he did), or C4 strapped to his body, or C4 in a lavishly gift-wrapped box set on a table detonated during his announcement from the microphone, or a van of fertilizer parked out front, or nitroglycerin or other easily made .. or today's backpack-sized nuclear device .. killing many, many more .. the stage was set and the play unstoppable.

So a man who suffered from bipolar disorder, bi/homo -sexuality, an opinionated father and wife, and fundamentalist Islam .. was doomed.

What can be done?

There's currently no cure for bipolar disorder, though symptoms can be relieved albeit the drugs have very unpleasant side effects.

And, science will continue to advance weaponry and the free market will make it available to anyone who wants it.

And, we can't outlaw religion.

But, we can change attitudes, one courageous presentation at a time.

Though only a relatively small number of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (the three social religions) adherents say homosexuality is a sin and those exhibiting related behavior should die, as we keep learning, it only takes one such person in combination with other factors to create a tragedy.

The ancient attitude toward homosexuality in fundamentalist religion sects is in direct defiance of what we scientifically know today: it's not "wrong" to be homosexual, and homosexual behavior is normal for homosexuals. Homosexuality is not a choice -- it's etiology is epigenetic, inculcated during gestation, and the homosexual sex drive is normal for those less than 6% of the population so exhibiting the condition of homo/bi -sexuality via behavior.

And though liberals are relieved that science has backed their statement that "you're born with it" .. they aren't telling the whole accurate-label truth about what homosexuality truly is.

If they did tell the whole truth, that would be the greatest weapon against ancient religious dogma, a weapon for change for the better.

But, liberals don't. They don't tell the whole truth about what homosexuality truly is. And, they censor those who try to speak the scientific truth based name we commonly use today for what homosexuality truly is.

And thus bullying continues .. and persecution continues .. and tragedies continue ... and sympathy and understanding and help that would make a great positive difference, goes sadly lacking.

To paraphrase Christianity's new testament, you will know the truth -- and tell the truth -- and the truth will set you free. Good advice for liberals who are too afraid they will lose some political clout if they tell the truth here.

To all those liberals who want to continue to censor the truth about what homosexuality truly is, and to punish those who tell the truth, Orlando is partially on you.

A word to the wise.


What is the truth about homosexuality?
 

Dragonfly

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In summary:

1. The Orlando shooter, Omar Mateen, was likely either bisexual or homosexual, not publicly open, about which he struggled.
2. The adherents of fundamentalist sects of Islam (like those of Judaism and Christianity) strictly view their old religious texts literally, all such texts state homosexuality is a sin punishable by death.
3. Fundamentalist religion praises and encourages martyrs.
4. Omar Mateen's father, Seddique Mateen, is a Taliban-supporting Islam fundamentalist who now publicly avows that God will punish homosexuals and privately most likely said worse to his son.
5. Omar Mateen appears to have suffered from bipolar disorder, and a bipolar sufferer when swinging back up from depression to mania is at their greatest risk for suicide.
6. Like with the San Bernardino tragedy, the shooter's significant other (Mateen's wife) played a major fundamentalist Islam instigating role in the Orlando radical tragedy.

Put all this together, and the terrible Orlando tragedy is really not all that surprising.

Whether he used an assault rifle (as he did), or C4 strapped to his body, or C4 in a lavishly gift-wrapped box set on a table detonated during his announcement from the microphone, or a van of fertilizer parked out front, or nitroglycerin or other easily made .. or today's backpack-sized nuclear device .. killing many, many more .. the stage was set and the play unstoppable.

So a man who suffered from bipolar disorder, bi/homo -sexuality, an opinionated father and wife, and fundamentalist Islam .. was doomed.

What can be done?

There's currently no cure for bipolar disorder, though symptoms can be relieved albeit the drugs have very unpleasant side effects.

And, science will continue to advance weaponry and the free market will make it available to anyone who wants it.

And, we can't outlaw religion.

But, we can change attitudes, one courageous presentation at a time.

Though only a relatively small number of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (the three social religions) adherents say homosexuality is a sin and those exhibiting related behavior should die, as we keep learning, it only takes one such person in combination with other factors to create a tragedy.

The ancient attitude toward homosexuality in fundamentalist religion sects is in direct defiance of what we scientifically know today: it's not "wrong" to be homosexual, and homosexual behavior is normal for homosexuals. Homosexuality is not a choice -- it's etiology is epigenetic, inculcated during gestation, and the homosexual sex drive is normal for those less than 6% of the population so exhibiting the condition of homo/bi -sexuality via behavior.

And though liberals are relieved that science has backed their statement that "you're born with it" .. they aren't telling the whole accurate-label truth about what homosexuality truly is.

If they did tell the whole truth, that would be the greatest weapon against ancient religious dogma, a weapon for change for the better.

But, liberals don't. They don't tell the whole truth about what homosexuality truly is. And, they censor those who try to speak the scientific truth based name we commonly use today for what homosexuality truly is.

And thus bullying continues .. and persecution continues .. and tragedies continue ... and sympathy and understanding and help that would make a great positive difference, goes sadly lacking.

To paraphrase Christianity's new testament, you will know the truth -- and tell the truth -- and the truth will set you free. Good advice for liberals who are too afraid they will lose some political clout if they tell the truth here.

To all those liberals who want to continue to censor the truth about what homosexuality truly is, and to punish those who tell the truth, Orlando is partially on you.

A word to the wise.


Hh4Wk.jpg
 

Beaudreaux

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An extremely well written post. I don't agree given that it's not just liberals that are having a difficult time defining the LGBT state of being. Your less than vague insinuation of an aberration may be medically correct (I've heard it described as such by many a medical expert that is also an LGBT advocate), but as long as it is also politically incorrect, you won't see any movement toward that discussion. In our society such things carry with them a stigma that is unfounded, unwarranted, and unwelcome by those being described as such.

To me, it's similar to whether a person has an appetite for haggis or not. Most do not, but those that do have a natural need for haggis. It doesn't make either side right or wrong, just different, with both being totally natural for the individual in question.
 

DifferentDrummr

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And what, pray tell, is "the scientific truth based name we commonly use today for what homosexuality truly is?"

Inquiring minds want to know!
 

TheGoverness

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And though liberals are relieved that science has backed their statement that "you're born with it" .. they aren't telling the whole accurate-label truth about what homosexuality truly is.

What the hell is the "truth" about homosexuality?
 

Beaudreaux

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A beautiful garden obscured by mountains of crap is just that.

True. Yet, the garden still exists. Eloquence is not a substitute for content, however, eloquence in-and-of-itself is still worth recognizing. For instance, I gave his post a "like" because of the way he made his argument, not because of his argument. We have a number of members that are bat**** crazy, and their writings are almost incomprehensible. When someone, even a person that I vehemently disagree with, pens a post that is intelligently written, if not intellectually agreeable, I recognize that. In a way, it's like Bernie Sanders and how I feel about him - I disagree with his proposals pretty much en toto, but I also think he is one of the most well spoken and honest politicians I have ever seen. In this case, the poster may very well believe his position (I believe he does) and that makes his post honest and forthright, if not intellectually accurate. But, be that as it may, it in no way lessens the quality of his writing skill.
 

Fearandloathing

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True. Yet, the garden still exists. Eloquence is not a substitute for content, however, eloquence in-and-of-itself is still worth recognizing. For instance, I gave his post a "like" because of the way he made his argument, not because of his argument. We have a number of members that are bat**** crazy, and their writings are almost incomprehensible. When someone, even a person that I vehemently disagree with, pens a post that is intelligently written, if not intellectually agreeable, I recognize that. In a way, it's like Bernie Sanders and how I feel about him - I disagree with his proposals pretty much en toto, but I also think he is one of the most well spoken and honest politicians I have ever seen. In this case, the poster may very well believe his position (I believe he does) and that makes his post honest and forthright, if not intellectually accurate. But, be that as it may, it in no way lessens the quality of his writing skill.



All too often, exceptional prose is a way of disguising a lack of substance or many other issues. Since the 1940's, the art of writing has evolved into tighter and more terse sentence structure; originating in the broadcast writing of the war where radio matured into an adult media form. Television also helped capsulize the language as there were pictures to punctuate the words.

The internet has both furthered that condensation and expanded the language with neologisms, thus pretty much changing prose all together. It has also altered what is considered to be"good" writing, so much so I don't even try anymore; leaving typos and misspells it simply isn't important. I was trained in the newspaper business whose editors were all German and perfectionistic about the language. It was there I learned that obeying the rules was boring.
 

Ontologuy

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An extremely well written post.
Thank you.


I don't agree given that it's not just liberals that are having a difficult time defining the LGBT state of being.
I did not say that just liberals have a difficult time with it.

Though there are also others (such as fundamentalist religion adherents themselves and those who are LGBT regardless of their religion/politics) who struggle with facing the truth about the LGBT state of being, my focus in this thread is on liberals, as it is their lack of acceptance of the scientific etiology of the LGBT condition that is contributing to a lack of prevention of tragedies like Orlando, in my opinion.


Your less than vague insinuation of an aberration may be medically correct (I've heard it described as such by many a medical expert that is also an LGBT advocate),
I would be interested in reading what you've heard from these medical experts.


but as long as it is also politically incorrect,
PC is a strictly liberal self-imposed prison.

Liberals call something they don't want to hear about "politically incorrect", not because the thing they don't want to hear about is "bad" or "wrong" for the most part, but because it is politically inconvenient for them. Then they try to compel via shame or legal compulsion that the rest of us similarly dumb ourselves down and use their PC terms.

For example, liberals call the accurate legal term "illegal alien" politically incorrect. They do so because it is a politically inconvenient reality for them. So they try to replace that term with "undocumented immigrant", a completely inaccurate and misleading term. Then they try to get everyone else outside their paradigm to use that term too, shaming them if they don't.

If liberals wish to dumb themselves down that way because it's politically expedient for them, that's up to them.

But the rest of society should not have to play by those rules.

I, for one, will not willingly play by those rules, as I value both my intelligence and my freedom of speech.


you won't see any movement toward that discussion.
Actually, we do see movement toward that discussion .. and we see liberal PCers attempting to censor that discussion via ad hominem attacks on those engaging in that discussion as well as outright attempts at free speech restriction.

Should we respect such PC restriction and kowtow to it?

Or should we speak freely the scientific truth based modern day accuracy about, in this case, homosexuality!

I greatly prefer, not only the courageous defiance of attempts to suspend our rights, but the modern day accurate presentation over the always potentially deadly ancient fundamentalist inaccurate one.
 

Ontologuy

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In our society
I disagree.

Sadly, the small liberal activist community in combination with the mainstream media has made themselves appear to be society itself.

They're not.

Our society is greatly more than liberal PCers want to profess that it is.

Most of our society, in truth, is open to learning more, to facing scientific realities, even if they are a bit startling.


such things carry with them a stigma that is unfounded, unwarranted, and unwelcome by those being described as such.
The adjectives with which you describe such stigma sounds a lot like it would apply to the ancient inaccurate fundamentalist religion ideology about homosexuality.

The perspective that you refer to here, its stigma would be a lot less likely to cause a major tragedy like Orlando.

I find the stigma that homosexuals are "wrong" and "bad" and unrepentant "sinners" who should be killed to be way, way more stigmatic than an accurate scientific based modern day term would be.

Yes, sometimes new realities can be a bit startling.

Acceptance is best, and nearly always results in a comparatively much better outcome which would be the case here.

But we can't let the fear of even a lesser stigma censor the presentation of the scientific reality.


To me, it's similar to whether a person has an appetite for haggis or not. Most do not, but those that do have a natural need for haggis. It doesn't make either side right or wrong, just different, with both being totally natural for the individual in question.
To me, this particular topic is not the same as you describe.

To me, someone who has learned the details of both the ancient religious fundamentalist perspective on homosexuality and the modern scientific epigenetic and accurately termed perspective on homosexuality, the former is simply wrong (as well as tragedy-causing) and the latter is simply correct (as well as tragedy-preventing once the PCers no longer thwart its mass presentation).

Once it was thought that African slaves in America were less than human. Today we are more advanced, and we know differently. Is that simply a matter of opinion that we should not bother to differentiate with respect to accuracy? Is it just as correct to say both of these perspectives are okay?

I think not.

A segment in Germany in the 1930s and 1940s had a particular attitude toward Jews that caused the death of more than six million Jews. Others then, and today, don't share that attitude. This is more than a difference of opinion.

***

As I wrote at the beginning of the OP, if you think I've continued to leave you with a particular and obviously germane unanswered question herein, then please PM me. Thank you.
 

DifferentDrummr

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As I wrote at the beginning of the OP, if you think I've continued to leave you with a particular and obviously germane unanswered question herein, then please PM me. Thank you.

Why do you demand PMs? Are you afraid of going public with this "whole truth" about sexuality that you keep alluding to? Are you worried that the horrid liberals who are trying to hide it might spray you with lavender dye?

This is a forum: if you have a real point, you simply make it.
 

chromium

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Why do you demand PMs? Are you afraid of going public with this "whole truth" about sexuality that you keep alluding to? Are you worried that the horrid liberals who are trying to hide it might spray you with lavender dye?

This is a forum: if you have a real point, you simply make it.

he doesn't need to because it's just the same as always with him - his little dissertation on homosexuality being a 'birth defect' similar to sickle cell

as if liberals admitting that, even if it were true, would encourage jihadists to leave homosexuals alone
 

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As far as I'm concerned, the main area where liberals need to get up to speed is to open their tiny minds and eyes to look beyond the little world of Christians they keep glaring at and scowling at, to recognize that there are huge sections of the planet beyond the Christian world where homosexuality is persecuted, often in very brutal ways.

They say that "all politics is local" - and the myopic fixation of Western LGBT activists on the local Christian population as the "enemy" certainly proves it - even while it completely misses the fact that non-local threats from other parts of the world are now making their way into America and the West.

I'm noticing a certain amount of lethargy or inertia among these primarily Left-wing activists of the LGBT community in recognizing that there are non-Christians who want to kill them. To me, that's really the big story here. These LGBT activists have grown comfortably accustomed to attacking the same enemy all the time, and when a new and more threatening enemy appears, they just don't have the foggiest idea of what to do.

As if anti-Gay attitudes of ISIS and other fanatics weren't already known, but they were comfortably out-of-sight and out-of-mind on the other side of the world. The fact that ISIS is making its way into America now changes that. An ISIS guy can now kill 2 birds with 1 stone, killing not just American infidels or homosexual abominations, but killing American infidel gay abominations all in 1 attack. That's probably doubling the frequent-flyer points required to get them into paradise.

If the LGBTs don't wake up to see who the greater enemy is, then they'll only have more tragedies like this one. Remember, the killer praised the Tsarnaev brothers, who didn't even use any guns - they just used homemade bombs.
 

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As far as I'm concerned, the main area where liberals need to get up to speed is to open their tiny minds and eyes to look beyond the little world of Christians they keep glaring at and scowling at, to recognize that there are huge sections of the planet beyond the Christian world where homosexuality is persecuted, often in very brutal ways.

They say that "all politics is local" - and the myopic fixation of Western LGBT activists on the local Christian population as the "enemy" certainly proves it - even while it completely misses the fact that non-local threats from other parts of the world are now making their way into America and the West.

I'm noticing a certain amount of lethargy or inertia among these primarily Left-wing activists of the LGBT community in recognizing that there are non-Christians who want to kill them. To me, that's really the big story here. These LGBT activists have grown comfortably accustomed to attacking the same enemy all the time, and when a new and more threatening enemy appears, they just don't have the foggiest idea of what to do.

As if anti-Gay attitudes of ISIS and other fanatics weren't already known, but they were comfortably out-of-sight and out-of-mind on the other side of the world. The fact that ISIS is making its way into America now changes that. An ISIS guy can now kill 2 birds with 1 stone, killing not just American infidels or homosexual abominations, but killing American infidel gay abominations all in 1 attack. That's probably doubling the frequent-flyer points required to get them into paradise.

If the LGBTs don't wake up to see who the greater enemy is, then they'll only have more tragedies like this one. Remember, the killer praised the Tsarnaev brothers, who didn't even use any guns - they just used homemade bombs.

muslim thugs attacking gay bars is not a new threat in the least. Last year one of them tried to set a gay bar in seattle on fire, and everyone is well aware of the favorite hobby of ISIS and their recruitment efforts in the west. However, the drones are already over there. Little is being done though to combat christian extremism. In fact, they appear right on stage with presidential candidates!
 

Kobie

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As far as I'm concerned, the main area where liberals need to get up to speed is to open their tiny minds and eyes to look beyond the little world of Christians they keep glaring at and scowling at, to recognize that there are huge sections of the planet beyond the Christian world where homosexuality is persecuted, often in very brutal ways.

Yes, because obviously liberals don't know this.
 

Brochacholomigo

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Saying that liberals need to stop supporting homosexuals because Jihadists hate them is like something something Nazis.

There, now where's my Godwin award?
 

TheGoverness

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Saying that liberals need to stop supporting homosexuals because Jihadists hate them is like something something Nazis.

There, now where's my Godwin award?

Nazi comparisons are the best comparisons, am I right?
 

TheGoverness

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As I wrote at the beginning of the OP, if you think I've continued to leave you with a particular and obviously germane unanswered question herein, then please PM me. Thank you.

This just shows me that you actually have no substantive point to make.
 

Kobie

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This just shows me that you actually have no substantive point to make.

It's Ontologuy, who thinks verbosity is an acceptable substitute for anything resembling a salient point.
 
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