• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Opposing Illegal Migrants - Hypocrital or Justifed?

JBG

DP Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
2,569
Reaction score
693
Location
New York City area
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
In this day and age of caravans, agitation to abolish Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and travel bans,one question I'll admit I agonize over is why these migrants are any different from my ancestors. They were all Jewish, and arrived similarly penniless from Ukraine, by way of Montreal, Poland (then Russia), and the Slovak-Hungarian border (they called themselves Hungarian). Am I being a hypocrite by denouncing the current caravan while applauding my ancestors' migration to the U.S.?

Here is my answer as I wrestle with this question. The earlier immigrants to the U.S. knew they had a long slog ahead. They worked menial jobs (in some cases) by day, went to night school to learn English. Or in the case of the ones coming from Kiev via Montreal, I suppose they learned English up there. But those people were fleeing serious religious persecution. They were not in the "wrong gang" in a perpetual gang war. Further, they had every intention to integrate into and participate in American society. At best, the current migrants are peasants, and have never, in generations, had a tradition of education or self-betterment.

We either have to enforce our borders, or eliminate the social welfare state that draws them. As Milton Friedman, noted economist famously said: "It's just obvious you can't have free immigration and a welfare state." See Look to Milton: Open borders and the welfare state. I work hard. I paid off a large educational debt. Why should people like myself be the losers?
 
In this day and age of caravans, agitation to abolish Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and travel bans,one question I'll admit I agonize over is why these migrants are any different from my ancestors. They were all Jewish, and arrived similarly penniless from Ukraine, by way of Montreal, Poland (then Russia), and the Slovak-Hungarian border (they called themselves Hungarian). Am I being a hypocrite by denouncing the current caravan while applauding my ancestors' migration to the U.S.?

Here is my answer as I wrestle with this question. The earlier immigrants to the U.S. knew they had a long slog ahead. They worked menial jobs (in some cases) by day, went to night school to learn English. Or in the case of the ones coming from Kiev via Montreal, I suppose they learned English up there. But those people were fleeing serious religious persecution. They were not in the "wrong gang" in a perpetual gang war. Further, they had every intention to integrate into and participate in American society. At best, the current migrants are peasants, and have never, in generations, had a tradition of education or self-betterment.

We either have to enforce our borders, or eliminate the social welfare state that draws them. As Milton Friedman, noted economist famously said: "It's just obvious you can't have free immigration and a welfare state." See Look to Milton: Open borders and the welfare state. I work hard. I paid off a large educational debt. Why should people like myself be the losers?

I assume you are referring to mostly Hispanic immigrants since you bring up the caravan. The Hispanic immigrants do work hard at menial jobs and many do take English classes at night - around here they are so packed they are wait listed and new schools are opening up more and more classes. They also do integrate and assimilate, many studies show they do at the same rate as any other past immigrant groups so any notion that they are not are just prejudice views.

There's nothing wrong with applying the laws on the books, fining employers who hire illegals and take away any welfare benefits to a family that are not all here legally but don't try to sell me that on the basis that it's because the illegal immigrants are not trying to assimilate, work hard, or learn English because for the most part that's just BS.
 
In this day and age of caravans, agitation to abolish Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and travel bans,one question I'll admit I agonize over is why these migrants are any different from my ancestors. They were all Jewish, and arrived similarly penniless from Ukraine, by way of Montreal, Poland (then Russia), and the Slovak-Hungarian border (they called themselves Hungarian). Am I being a hypocrite by denouncing the current caravan while applauding my ancestors' migration to the U.S.?

Here is my answer as I wrestle with this question. The earlier immigrants to the U.S. knew they had a long slog ahead. They worked menial jobs (in some cases) by day, went to night school to learn English. Or in the case of the ones coming from Kiev via Montreal, I suppose they learned English up there. But those people were fleeing serious religious persecution. They were not in the "wrong gang" in a perpetual gang war. Further, they had every intention to integrate into and participate in American society. At best, the current migrants are peasants, and have never, in generations, had a tradition of education or self-betterment.

Your ancestors were basically peasants with no tradition of education either. They got that in the US.
 
Why is religious persecution different from one not wanting there daughter to be a gang members rape victim or wanting your son to go to school and not join a gang but is forced to?

If you lived somewhere where your children had a choice of being in gang or being dead which would you choose?

Yes we need to enforce our laws. Yes we need a secure border. What we don't need to think is peasants as you call them are marching to invade us.
People that invade don't usually announce said invasion.
 
Your ancestors were basically peasants with no tradition of education either. They got that in the US.
Dead wrong. The Jews have an abundant tradition of education. In Russia they were not even permitted to work the land.
 
Back
Top Bottom