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Only 1 week left before govt censorship of political speech kicks in

Little-Acorn

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Recall that the so-called "Campaign Finance Reform Act" signed into law by Pres. Bush 43, prohibits TV and radio ads mentioning the name(s) of candidate(s) within 60 days of a general election. That ban goes into effect in a week.

The law came about after the 1996 election, when it was revealed that Democrats had massively violated existing censorship laws prohibiting the use of "soft money" for ads referring to specific candidates instead of only general issues. The violations were so pervasive and effective, that in the last few weeks before the 96 election Republicans started desperately doing it too.

When the extent of the violations of law became apparent, a bipartisan commission finally offered up a "solution": Make more laws. Democrats happily signed on to this "solution", since it pretended that the old laws were the problem, not the Democrats' violations of those laws. The result was the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform bill.

This was the bill that Bush said he thought was unconstitutional, and then signed it anyway. It was his most egregious act as President to that date. It was upheld by a 5-4 decision of the Supreme Court, with all the usual suspects voting to allow it and all the usual opponents screaming their heads off about its unconstitutionality.

Justice Clarence Thomas, for example, wrote in his dissent:

The First Amendment provides that "Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech." Nevertheless, the Court today upholds what can only be described as the most significant abridgment of the freedoms of speech and association since the Civil War. With breathtaking scope, the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002 (BCRA), directly targets and constricts core political speech, the "primary object of First Amendment protection.". Because "the First Amendment ’has its fullest and most urgent application’ to speech uttered during a campaign for political office,", our duty is to approach these restrictions "with the utmost skepticism" and subject them to the "strictest scrutiny."

In response to this assault on the free exchange of ideas and with only the slightest consideration of the appropriate standard of review or of the Court’s traditional role of protecting First Amendment freedoms, the Court has placed its imprimatur on these unprecedented restrictions. The very "purpose of the First Amendment [is] to preserve an uninhibited marketplace of ideas in which truth will ultimately prevail." Yet today the fundamental principle that "the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market,", is cast aside in the purported service of preventing "corruption," or the mere "appearance of corruption.". Apparently, the marketplace of ideas is to be fully open only to defamers, nude dancers, pornographers, flag burners, and cross burners.


(Thomas includes references to cases that give examples of each of the exceptions he scathingly mentions above.) See http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/02-1674.ZX1.html for full text of the dissent.
 
maybe a new court with alito and roberts will agree with Thomas and overturn this nonsense
 
Moderator's Warning:
Moved...*ahem*....Little-Acorn, once again, please read and FOLLOW the rules for posting in *Breaking News*
 
The onslaught on our constitution and rights to freedom of speech continues unabated by the Republican majority in Congress. This 2002 bill currently begins a precedent of limitations on this court.

With a conservative and even federalist slant to the Supreme Court, this appears to be the trend we as Americans will face. Further erosion of our constitutional freedoms.

I predict this is only the beginning. By the end of two years, he'll appoint himself king and go on.
 
TurtleDude said:
maybe a new court with alito and roberts will agree with Thomas and overturn this nonsense

I hope so and where are the leftist on this one? The ACLU is fighting to allow people to disrupt the funerals of our fallen soldiers as free speech but stand by idly as the government puts duct tape over our mouths during an election.
 
Stinger said:
I hope so and where are the leftist on this one? The ACLU is fighting to allow people to disrupt the funerals of our fallen soldiers as free speech but stand by idly as the government puts duct tape over our mouths during an election.


Really? May I see the article which tells you this?
 
Muddy Creek said:
Really? May I see the article which tells you this?

Tells me what?
 
Muddy Creek said:
Really? May I see the article which tells you this?


Feigned ignorance is one of the most annoying things on this board. If you really don't know that the ACLU is trying to prevent the puke known as Phred Felps protesting at funerals of servicemen, you really aren't informed enough to be posting here. That is well known new. ARe you demanding links as some sort of filibustering or passive annoyance?

why do dems whine about the GOP disrupting rights when its the dems who tried to eliminate

1-the right to keep and bear arms
2-the right of private association
3-the right to use private property as you see fit
4-forced socialist security

I also note I can't recall a single incident where a leftwing speaker was attacked on a college campus or a leftwing student newspaper was subjected to vandalism, arson or wanton destruction
 
Muddy Creek said:
The onslaught on our constitution and rights to freedom of speech continues unabated by the Republican majority in Congress.


The McCain-Finegold bill was a bipartisan bill with the only opposition coming from the Republicans in the Senate.


I predict this is only the beginning. By the end of two years, he'll appoint himself king and go on.

Bush had little if anything to do with it, it was primarily and liberal/moderate bill anyway, not a conservative bill. The conservatives merely wanted open reporting of all contributions.
 
TurtleDude said:
why do dems whine about the GOP disrupting rights when its the dems who tried to eliminate

1-the right to keep and bear arms
2-the right of private association
3-the right to use private property as you see fit
4-forced socialist security

I also note I can't recall a single incident where a leftwing speaker was attacked on a college campus or a leftwing student newspaper was subjected to vandalism, arson or wanton destruction

Add to that regulating political speech on radio.
 
Stinger said:
Add to that regulating political speech on radio.

a couple years ago the dictatorial defeatocrats tried to block the NRA from advocating that you can increase your personal safety by keeping and being well trained with firearms. The ARC elements of the defeatocrat party -citing a debunked and fraudulent "study" claimed that guns make you unsafe and the NRA shouldn't be allowed to place advertisements supporting the second amendment

of course if this rule were put in place, the dems would have to stop telling people they care about the USA or the poor:mrgreen:
 
Stinger said:
Tells me what?

Thought so. Your opinion then, which when coupled with $5.75 just get you good coffee at Starbucks. Didn't think it sounded like fact.
 
TurtleDude said:
Feigned ignorance is one of the most annoying things on this board. If you really don't know that the ACLU is trying to prevent the puke known as Phred Felps protesting at funerals of servicemen, you really aren't informed enough to be posting here. That is well known new. ARe you demanding links as some sort of filibustering or passive annoyance?

why do dems whine about the GOP disrupting rights when its the dems who tried to eliminate

1-the right to keep and bear arms
2-the right of private association
3-the right to use private property as you see fit
4-forced socialist security

I also note I can't recall a single incident where a leftwing speaker was attacked on a college campus or a leftwing student newspaper was subjected to vandalism, arson or wanton destruction

You must be part of the say it wrong enough/long enough crowd, too. Didn't notice any sources. I believe you because......:spin:
 
Muddy Creek said:
You must be part of the say it wrong enough/long enough crowd, too. Didn't notice any sources. I believe you because......:spin:


do your own homework and if you think I am wrong feel free to find some sources. I tire of the low wattage types telling us to post links to stuff that anyone serious about politics knows is a fact
 
Stinger said:
The McCain-Finegold bill was a bipartisan bill with the only opposition coming from the Republicans in the Senate.




Bush had little if anything to do with it, it was primarily and liberal/moderate bill anyway, not a conservative bill. The conservatives merely wanted open reporting of all contributions.

Thank you for the information, Stinger, and I'll offer my apologies. I don't think I was very clear to you about what I meant of the attack.

There are many issues involved in the Freedom of Speech. Bush has hit upon many of them. Here is what I'm considering those attacks as being....

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060703/mcchesney

Democracy is premised on a free press, and freedom of the press is premised on the absence of public or private gatekeepers with monopolistic power. It is why the Supreme Court ruled in 1945 that antitrust was probably more appropriate in the realm of media than in any other area. Looking at this chart, we can see that A.J. Liebling's adage that "freedom of the press is limited to those who own one" is frightfully accurate, with all that it says about the state of our core freedoms and our democracy. The Supreme Court was sixty-one years ahead of its time.

This concentrated, conglomerated and profit-driven media system is hardly the result of "free enterprise." These giant companies are the recipients of enormous direct and indirect subsidies and/or government-granted monopoly franchises. They include: monopoly licenses to radio and TV frequencies, cable and satellite TV monopoly franchises, magazine postal subsidies and copyright, to mention a few. For these firms the most important competition may well be in Washington, getting the cushy subsidies and licenses. These policies, worth tens of billions annually, are generally made in our name but without our informed consent. That is the heart of the problem, and it points us to the solution: informed public participation on media policy-making.

Case in point: This summer will see the FCC's review of the ban on cross-ownership, that is, preventing firms from owning both daily newspapers and broadcasting stations in the same community. If the Bush Administration gets its way, the rule will be scrapped, local media monopolization will explode and this chart may someday be regarded as mapping a veritable golden age of competitive media. Company-town media, with one or maybe two conglomerate-owned McNewsrooms serving an entire community, will be the order of the day. In 2003 a massive public outcry prevented the elimination of the cross-ownership rule, and if the public speaks we will stop the Bush Administration again this year. A broad bipartisan coalition has taken shape at www.stopbigmedia.com to organize the fight.

This monopolization of the media buy outs in turn only provides news which supports the Bush administration and does not allow investigative reporting into any of the Government's many fiascos.

This concerns me greatly, because the press used to be able to keep the government honest through investigative reporting. Now, the press is just an extension of the will of the government to relay to the public what it wants it to know.

Sorry again for the incovenience.
 
Muddy Creek said:
Thank you for the information, Stinger, and I'll offer my apologies. I don't think I was very clear to you about what I meant of the attack.

There are many issues involved in the Freedom of Speech. Bush has hit upon many of them. Here is what I'm considering those attacks as being....

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060703/mcchesney



This monopolization of the media buy outs in turn only provides news which supports the Bush administration and does not allow investigative reporting into any of the Government's many fiascos.

This concerns me greatly, because the press used to be able to keep the government honest through investigative reporting. Now, the press is just an extension of the will of the government to relay to the public what it wants it to know.

Sorry again for the incovenience.


more nonsense. right now the press is militantly anti bush. But for fox and talk radio the bias is obvious. Not only is the news reports and pseudo news shows (night line, etc) biased, mainstream programming is pro left. Watch "Boston Legal" Law and Order and other dramas and you will see slams of gun owners, business owners, oil companies etc. when have you ever seen a mainstream prime time tv program on the big three make say the gun banners or the pro choice advocates look bad?
 
TurtleDude said:
do your own homework and if you think I am wrong feel free to find some sources. I tire of the low wattage types telling us to post links to stuff that anyone serious about politics knows is a fact

Hard not to just spin and lie and deceive the public. If you can't pony up with your statistics, they don't exist. Just admit you have no proof of what you say, you're repeating something from someone else who had no proof, and you can pass off as just another nary do well republican who has no intentions of stopping the decline of the once greatness of this nation.

If you admit it, you're halfway to the "cure".;)
 
As a lifelong Conservative / Republican I find these two quotes written below so terribly apt especially when applied to the average American voter.

Note who wrote them.

"What luck for the rulers that men do not think."
- Adolf Hitler

"The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big
lie than to a small one."
- Adolf Hitler
 
TurtleDude said:
more nonsense. right now the press is militantly anti bush. But for fox and talk radio the bias is obvious. Not only is the news reports and pseudo news shows (night line, etc) biased, mainstream programming is pro left. Watch "Boston Legal" Law and Order and other dramas and you will see slams of gun owners, business owners, oil companies etc. when have you ever seen a mainstream prime time tv program on the big three make say the gun banners or the pro choice advocates look bad?

LOL!!!! If what you said were true, we'd have the impeachment of Bush already in hand....much like the press who went after Clinton for 2 years and reported nothing but the impeachment....now we don't even have a bad word said about the war.

As to television shows, they depict what the majority of Americans are thinking and feel. They have sponsors who want to take their product to the population watching these shows. When over 50% of Americans think that Bush is doing a bad job domestically and internationally, don't you think his policies and those of his supporters won't be the thrust of the audiences watching these shows? It's economics.


http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm
 
Muddy Creek said:
LOL!!!! If what you said were true, we'd have the impeachment of Bush already in hand....much like the press who went after Clinton for 2 years and reported nothing but the impeachment....now we don't even have a bad word said about the war.

As to television shows, they depict what the majority of Americans are thinking and feel. They have sponsors who want to take their product to the population watching these shows. When over 50% of Americans think that Bush is doing a bad job domestically and internationally, don't you think his policies and those of his supporters won't be the thrust of the audiences watching these shows? It's economics.


http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm

really-so most americans feel the same way say "Ally McBeal" felt. that is among the stupidest comments I have ever seen here. Did most of America believe what "Archie BUnker believed or what "Meathead" believed.

you confuse with an entertaining story with liberal bias vs pure propaganda. I am rather conservative/libertarian and I enjoy watching Law and Order or "Boston Legal" though both shows are clearly based on a liberal slant
 
TurtleDude said:
do your own homework and if you think I am wrong feel free to find some sources. I tire of the low wattage types telling us to post links to stuff that anyone serious about politics knows is a fact

Ok, so you post some bogus claim and it is up to everyone else to do their homework? Sorry, that's not the way things work. If you say something, back it up with proof, or don't bitch when someone thinks you're exagerating or lying about it.

And just because Ann "The terrorist" Coulter or Rush Limpd**k say something, does not make it fact, it makes it OPINION. When you learn that you might get better at debating.
 
TurtleDude said:
really-so most americans feel the same way say "Ally McBeal" felt. that is among the stupidest comments I have ever seen here. Did most of America believe what "Archie BUnker believed or what "Meathead" believed.

you confuse with an entertaining story with liberal bias vs pure propaganda. I am rather conservative/libertarian and I enjoy watching Law and Order or "Boston Legal" though both shows are clearly based on a liberal slant

Your enjoyment of the shows and their apparent popularity are based upon approval of the subject matter. Trust me, in these days and dark times of religionists who want to censor what we say and think, if these shows were not what the majority were thinking, they would be banned. And I'm sorry you appeared to have missed the 1960's and 1970's backlash against this nation and it's religionists values which discriminated against people...It was one heck of a party, man....:2razz:
 
Muddy Creek said:
Your enjoyment of the shows and their apparent popularity are based upon approval of the subject matter. Trust me, in these days and dark times of religionists who want to censor what we say and think, if these shows were not what the majority were thinking, they would be banned. And I'm sorry you appeared to have missed the 1960's and 1970's backlash against this nation and it's religionists values which discriminated against people...It was one heck of a party, man....:2razz:


you are doing a poor job of mindreading. I enjoy the shows for stuff that is contained in them not involving the clear political bias. It is the left that is engaged in censorship these days more than the bible thumpers. Bible thumpers mostly whine about pornography. A waste of time in my opinion but its harder to argue porno is constitutionally protected compared to say the Dartmouth Review, David Horowitz or Ann Coulter. I am not aware of a Christian group trashing newspapers of liberal students. I am not aware of evangelicals trying to "pie" say Randi Rhodes or Al Franken at some college.

I am aware of lefties trying to pie and shut down Ann Coulter. I witnessed a far left student at Yale try to drown out the South African ambassador a couple decades ago and liberal Black law students try to prevent a debate between Professor Ernest Van Der Haag and CORE President Roy Innis on the issue of affirmative action. I am aware of speach codes Donna Shalala imposed at (IIRC) Wisconsin and the persecution of a Jewish male student for calling some noisy black students "buffaloes"at Penn. I am aware that Yale Freshman Wayne Dick was threatened with expulsion for parodying a Gay and Lesbian Awareness Day by calling it BAD-bestiality awareness day and he forced Yale into an apology when it appeared his lawsuit would prevail. I am aware of the Dartmouth REview-a conservative paper-having numerous cases of vandalism and even administration attacks for making fun of a third string leftwing professor by the name of Cole.

If you can cite cases of fundamentalis holy rollers doing the same thing to political speach I would be interested in hearing that
 
If you can cite cases of fundamentalis holy rollers doing the same thing to political speach I would be interested in hearing that
The silence will be deafening.
 
TurtleDude said:
you are doing a poor job of mindreading. I enjoy the shows for stuff that is contained in them not involving the clear political bias. It is the left that is engaged in censorship these days more than the bible thumpers. Bible thumpers mostly whine about pornography. A waste of time in my opinion but its harder to argue porno is constitutionally protected compared to say the Dartmouth Review, David Horowitz or Ann Coulter. I am not aware of a Christian group trashing newspapers of liberal students. I am not aware of evangelicals trying to "pie" say Randi Rhodes or Al Franken at some college.

I am aware of lefties trying to pie and shut down Ann Coulter. I witnessed a far left student at Yale try to drown out the South African ambassador a couple decades ago and liberal Black law students try to prevent a debate between Professor Ernest Van Der Haag and CORE President Roy Innis on the issue of affirmative action. I am aware of speach codes Donna Shalala imposed at (IIRC) Wisconsin and the persecution of a Jewish male student for calling some noisy black students "buffaloes"at Penn. I am aware that Yale Freshman Wayne Dick was threatened with expulsion for parodying a Gay and Lesbian Awareness Day by calling it BAD-bestiality awareness day and he forced Yale into an apology when it appeared his lawsuit would prevail. I am aware of the Dartmouth REview-a conservative paper-having numerous cases of vandalism and even administration attacks for making fun of a third string leftwing professor by the name of Cole.

If you can cite cases of fundamentalis holy rollers doing the same thing to political speach I would be interested in hearing that



http://mediamatters.org/items/200606290009


Here's a list of programs which are clearly showing propaganda in presentation.

http://mediamatters.org/

Corporate take over of what used to be independently owned media and newspapers have created a very biased and politically based censorship.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Media_control_propaganda/MediaCensorshipFreePress.html


More distortions revealed

http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/censorship

That's it for now....gotta head off for work. May be able to catch you on break. Sorry for the lack of substantiating the evangelists issues...I will do that if not during the day, then tonite.

Thanks for the discussions continuing. I enjoy this immensely.
 
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