One in 28 US kids has a parent in prison

[Dittohead not!]

The average elementary school classroom has at least one student whose parent is in prison.

And our prison population has quadrupled in the past thirty years to give the US the highest rate of incarceration in the world.

This is just astounding, and unacceptable.

The study (PDF) from the Pew Research Center's Economic Mobility Project, released Tuesday, reports that the US prison population has more than quadrupled since 1980, from 500,000 to 2.3 million, making the US's incarceration rate the highest in the world, beating former champions like Russia and South Africa.

link

 

[MajinLink]

All those drug crimes adding up

 

[1069]

Doesn't surprise me; sounds about right. :shrug:
I mean, almost every prisoner has kids. Some of them have lots of kids.

 

[Bodi]

The average elementary school classroom has at least one student whose parent is in prison.

And our prison population has quadrupled in the past thirty years to give the US the highest rate of incarceration in the world.

This is just astounding, and unacceptable.

The study (PDF) from the Pew Research Center's Economic Mobility Project, released Tuesday, reports that the US prison population has more than quadrupled since 1980, from 500,000 to 2.3 million, making the US's incarceration rate the highest in the world, beating former champions like Russia and South Africa.

link

1st place and proud...

 

[Orion]

The war on drugs combined with a law enforcement infrastructure that operates on quotas and feeds the private corrections system are to blame. Creating more laws that aren't needed just creates more criminals who shouldn't be criminalized in the first place. The three strikes law is another example of judicial atrocity. Violent crime and murder have been on the decline for the past decade or so even though reporting has increased something like 200%. (I forget the exact number, read it a long time ago.)

There is no real justification for the number of people being in prison that are. Canada's federal conservatives have increased spending by about $3 billion to fund the building of new prisons, even though they aren't needed. More prisons means more need to fill them, which means more useless laws. I don't usually play the partisan card but it's typically conservative powers that increase prison populations with their straight punitive model.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

The war on drugs combined with a law enforcement infrastructure that operates on quotas and feeds the private corrections system are to blame. Creating more laws that aren't needed just creates more criminals who shouldn't be criminalized in the first place. The three strikes law is another example of judicial atrocity. Violent crime and murder have been on the decline for the past decade or so even though reporting has increased something like 200%. (I forget the exact number, read it a long time ago.)

There is no real justification for the number of people being in prison that are. Canada's federal conservatives have increased spending by about $3 billion to fund the building of new prisons, even though they aren't needed. More prisons means more need to fill them, which means more useless laws. I don't usually play the partisan card but it's typically conservative powers that increase prison populations with their straight punitive model.

Funny this is brought up.
A guy that I used to work with, as of this week, got busted making meth.
It's his third strike, so he's getting 25 to life.

He's got a kid too.
Really screwed up stuff.

 

[Bodi]

The war on drugs combined with a law enforcement infrastructure that operates on quotas and feeds the private corrections system are to blame. Creating more laws that aren't needed just creates more criminals who shouldn't be criminalized in the first place. The three strikes law is another example of judicial atrocity. Violent crime and murder have been on the decline for the past decade or so even though reporting has increased something like 200%. (I forget the exact number, read it a long time ago.)

There is no real justification for the number of people being in prison that are. Canada's federal conservatives have increased spending by about $3 billion to fund the building of new prisons, even though they aren't needed. More prisons means more need to fill them, which means more useless laws. I don't usually play the partisan card but it's typically conservative powers that increase prison populations with their straight punitive model.

good post... and today I learned that the USA ranks 38th in technological infrastructure out of 40 polled and has one of the highest Infant Death Mortality Rates out of all 1st Wold Countries. There are far more important things to worry about than all the petty crimes people are getting charged with. Factor in the ****ty health care system and the near criminal behaviour of insurance companies and oil companies... puts things in perspective. But then again, I've lived my life very well and had tons of adventures and have never been arrested. Was easy... so what is with all these people breaking even petty laws? Seems like they have some problems...

 

[1069]

good post... and today I learned that the USA ranks 38th in technological infrastructure out of 40 polled and has one of the highest Infant Death Mortality Rates out of all 1st Wold Countries. There are far more important things to worry about than all the petty crimes people are getting charged with. Factor in the ****ty health care system and the near criminal behaviour of insurance companies and oil companies... puts things in perspective. But then again, I've lived my life very well and had tons of adventures and have never been arrested. Was easy... so what is with all these people breaking even petty laws? Seems like they have some problems...

You've broken laws. We all have.
Every single one of us is a criminal; some of us just haven't been caught.
White skin tends to offer one 65% decreased visibility to cops.
Affluence offers the additional protection of privacy in which to commit one's crimes.

 

[Orion]

good post... and today I learned that the USA ranks 38th in technological infrastructure out of 40 polled and has one of the highest Infant Death Mortality Rates out of all 1st Wold Countries.

Also the highest maternal death rate in the developed world. It has to do with the way children are born. I highly recommend watching the documentary "The business of being born". It's not sensational and just gives you the facts.

There are far more important things to worry about than all the petty crimes people are getting charged with. Factor in the ****ty health care system and the near criminal behaviour of insurance companies and oil companies... puts things in perspective. But then again, I've lived my life very well and had tons of adventures and have never been arrested. Was easy... so what is with all these people breaking even petty laws? Seems like they have some problems...

The problems started with corporate personhood, and escalated from there. Corporations are the only true citizens in the U.S. now because they weild sufficient financial and political power to sway democratic processes. People blast me as being anti-corporate but I'm actually not; I simply want democracy to remain in the hands of the public and business to remain business. People argue too much about the separation of state and religion; what we need now is a revolution to separate state from BUSINESS. As it stands, the U.S. is gradually becoming what is known as a Corporate Republic and most of the economic and social problems that are rising to epic proportions can be traced back to the personhood laws.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Also the highest maternal death rate in the developed world. It has to do with the way children are born. I highly recommend watching the documentary "The business of being born". It's not sensational and just gives you the facts.

Don't put to much stock in that statistic.
There is a lot that effects infant mortality, beyond U.S. medical care.

 

[Orion]

Funny this is brought up.
A guy that I used to work with, as of this week, got busted making meth.
It's his third strike, so he's getting 25 to life.

He's got a kid too.
Really screwed up stuff.

The thing is that it doesn't make any sense from a social standpoint. Most petty felons do what they do because they lack the resources and training for anything else. It would be cheaper to imprison them for the short term, rehabilitate them, and then put them into halfway houses and external training programs from there on. They are repeat offenders because they either have little recourse or their crime communities draw them back in once they get out. OR, their criminal tendencies are heightened from being around other criminals in prison! It's just absurd.

A crime and punishment system does not rectify criminal behaviour, it just enables it further.

 

[Dittohead not!]

It's interesting that the three strikes law was brought up. I can remember the campaign for three strikes here in California, intimating that violent felons would be affected, when the reality is that three petty crimes are enough to be locked up forever. A large part of the problem has to be the profitability of prisons. The prison guard's union is the most powerful one in the state, stronger by far than the teacher's unions. Anything that increases the prison population increases their payrolls, and non violent criminals have to be easier to take care of than the violent ones.

 

[Orion]

Don't put to much stock in that statistic.
There is a lot that effects infant mortality, beyond U.S. medical care.

That's true, but when you compare developed nations there is an obvious disparity between the U.S. and everyone else.

 

[Caine]

All those drug crimes adding up

Shows how weak the minds of our society are that they allow some stupid substance to control it like that.....

*shrug* No sympathy. They knew it was illegal.

 

[Caine]

The war on drugs combined with a law enforcement infrastructure that operates on quotas

[citation needed] There may be pocket areas of isolated incidents involving quotas, but setting quotas is unlawful.

 

[Caine]

Funny this is brought up.
A guy that I used to work with, as of this week, got busted making meth.
It's his third strike, so he's getting 25 to life.

He's got a kid too.
Really screwed up stuff.

Repeat Offender = REALLY HAVE Absolutely No Sympathy Whatsoever.

 

[Caine]

The thing is that it doesn't make any sense from a social standpoint. Most petty felons do what they do because they lack the resources and training for anything else.

They do what they do and they know that it is wrong, and they know that there are consequences. Parents who discipline the way you suggest we should treat criminals in society... their children grow up to be those criminals.
THAT is why we have so many criminals, parents aren't doing their ****ing jobs of enforcing doing right from doing wrong.

It would be cheaper to imprison them for the short term, rehabilitate them, and then put them into halfway houses and external training programs from there on. They are repeat offenders because they either have little recourse or their crime communities draw them back in once they get out. OR, their criminal tendencies are heightened from being around other criminals in prison! It's just absurd.

So there is always a "aww poor criminal" excause to why someone is a criminal? You think they make these decisions because of some societal problem and not because they lack the motivation to work hard for little instead of working little for much? The drug sales business is easy money and becomes an addiction.

A crime and punishment system does not rectify criminal behaviour, it just enables it further.

A do nothing about crime system does not rectify criminal behavior, it enables it furthur. In order to talk about this subject matter any, You'd actually have to get to know some criminals first bub.

 

[Caine]

That's true, but when you compare developed nations there is an obvious disparity between the U.S. and everyone else.

There we go with the other talking point... "Other nations"

Other nations don't have the same cultural problems that the U.S. Does.

The point is moot.

 

[Orion]

They do what they do and they know that it is wrong, and they know that there are consequences. Parents who discipline the way you suggest we should treat criminals in society... their children grow up to be those criminals.
THAT is why we have so many criminals, parents aren't doing their ****ing jobs of enforcing doing right from doing wrong.

I am not saying that we should let criminals run rampant, so I don't know where you got that idea from. I also don't think hands-off parenting is a good idea. In fact is the probably one of the worst parenting methods. But just because we need to address criminals doesn't mean the system has to be all about punishment. "Corrections" means rehabilitation, something that the focus has been taken away from. Prisons have become places where criminals get sent and they become better at crime, forming connections on the inside.

So there is always a "aww poor criminal" excause to why someone is a criminal? You think they make these decisions because of some societal problem and not because they lack the motivation to work hard for little instead of working little for much? The drug sales business is easy money and becomes an addiction.

Nowhere was I excusing criminal behaviour, but I did say that some things which are crimes should not be crimes, like drug possession.

A do nothing about crime system does not rectify criminal behavior, it enables it furthur. In order to talk about this subject matter any, You'd actually have to get to know some criminals first bub.

I never suggested we do nothing. Non sequitur, bub.

Other nations don't have the same cultural problems that the U.S. Does.

You're right... other nations have worse cultural problems, but their prison populations are nowhere near the percentage you see in the U.S.

 

[Caine]

I am not saying that we should let criminals run rampant, so I don't know where you got that idea from. I also don't think hands-off parenting is a good idea. In fact is the probably one of the worst parenting methods. But just because we need to address criminals doesn't mean the system has to be all about punishment. "Corrections" means rehabilitation, something that the focus has been taken away from. Prisons have become places where criminals get sent and they become better at crime, forming connections on the inside.

Nowhere was I excusing criminal behaviour, but I did say that some things which are crimes should not be crimes, like drug possession.



I never suggested we do nothing. Non sequitur, bub.



You're right... other nations have worse cultural problems, but their prison populations are nowhere near the percentage you see in the U.S.

And how is their actual CRIME RATE ye of many answers.

 

[Orion]

And how is their actual CRIME RATE ye of many answers.

Generally, it is lower... because they shift the penal system toward rehabilitation instead of punishment. Prison sentences are lower for non-violent offenses, and you will never see anything so absurd as the three strikes rule for felonies. Non-violent crimes should not lead to life sentences, unless the impact of such crimes on society is large (i.e. wallstreet fraud).

In Canada for example, sentences tend to be halved according to good behaviour and co-operation with rehab programs. There is no benefit to society by keeping non-violent offenders behind bars for the long-term. But of course, they already know that in the American system, they just don't care. The prison system is big business, and the more fodder the better. You can almost always trace the problems back to money and profit motives.

 

[Caine]

Generally, it is lower... because they shift the penal system toward rehabilitation instead of punishment. Prison sentences are lower for non-violent offenses, and you will never see anything so absurd as the three strikes rule for felonies.

Three strikes rule: Applies to California. How about the rest of the state???

In Canada for example, sentences tend to be halved according to good behaviour and co-operation with rehab programs.

Whcih is no different from many areas of the US.

There is no benefit to society by keeping non-violent offenders behind bars for the long-term. But of course, they already know that in the American system, they just don't care. The prison system is big business, and the more fodder the better. You can almost always trace the problems back to money and profit motives.

Blah Blah, Conspiracy, Blah Blah.

 

[Bodi]

You've broken laws. We all have.
Every single one of us is a criminal; some of us just haven't been caught.
White skin tends to offer one 65% decreased visibility to cops.
Affluence offers the additional protection of privacy in which to commit one's crimes.

I am obviously referring to "petty laws" that people are put into jail or prison for. Of course I have sped and jaywalked and broken other traffic laws. I have never stolen, beaten or robbed anybody. If white skin tends to offer one 65% decreased visibility to cops, then not breaking laws that result in incarceration offer one 100% decreased visibility to cops.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Shows how weak the minds of our society are that they allow some stupid substance to control it like that.....

*shrug* No sympathy. They knew it was illegal.

It also shows how weak minds are willing to pay fifty or sixty grand a year to keep an addict locked up.

 

[Caine]

It also shows how weak minds are willing to pay fifty or sixty grand a year to keep an addict locked up.

I guess its a lose/lose in the end.

That or society losing 50 or 60 grand in valuables stolen by these worthless junkies who go out stealin' **** to get their next fix.... *shrug*.