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On the Fourth of July

nota bene

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Tomorrow on our nation's birthday, I hope we will all celebrate how fortunate we are to live in a country in which women who want to protest (and carry nasty signs and dress half-nekkid in the streets) can.

Meanwhile, in Egypt in the past four days there have been nearly a hundred rapes of women who dared to be out in the streets, including foreign reporters.

I just wanted to offer a little red-white-and-blue perspective.
 

Henrin

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News stations around the world need to stop sending female reporters or for that matter anyone into the crowd. Those assholes have killed one reporter after gang raping her and raped at least five others. For god sakes, stop going in there.
 
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Scrabaholic

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My country celebrated it's birthday on the 1st. I'm thankful to live in a free nation where women can make their own medical choices in consultation with their doctors and those who would threaten that right are relatively few and ineffective in getting their agenda accomplished.
 

Removable Mind

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Tomorrow on our nation's birthday, I hope we will all celebrate how fortunate we are to live in a country in which women who want to protest (and carry nasty signs and dress half-nekkid in the streets) can.

Meanwhile, in Egypt in the past four days there have been nearly a hundred rapes of women who dared to be out in the streets, including foreign reporters.

I just wanted to offer a little red-white-and-blue perspective.
Nota...I was actually on the edge of applauding your post...until it was suddenly shaded with
women who want to protest (and carry nasty signs and dress half-nekkid in the streets) can.
What I see women doing is standing up against an oppressive group of extremist politicians who want to reduce women to subservient, obedient objects controlled by government and "men" who want to put women in their place.

If they have to protest fully naked to get the job done...so be it. And the signs I've recently seen women waving isn't nasty enough. They are protesting against political actions by tyrants who want to return women's political status back to times before women could vote or have any say in defense of themselves.

Now that's offering some red-white-and blue.

It's terrible, horrible that women anywhere get raped. There are still many rapes in this country.

Brave women journalists who put themselves in harms way have more courage, more patriotic, and more balls than the treasonous, gutless men in high political positions and seats in government who want to reduce their liberties and rights while nested in their cozy, secure mansions and government buildings.
 

JayDubya

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Nota...I was actually on the edge of applauding your post...until it was suddenly shaded with

What I see women doing is standing up against an oppressive group of extremist politicians who want to reduce women to subservient, obedient objects controlled by government and "men" who want to put women in their place.

If they have to protest fully naked to get the job done...so be it. And the signs I've recently seen women waving isn't nasty enough. They are protesting against political actions by tyrants who want to return women's political status back to times before women could vote or have any say in defense of themselves.

Now that's offering some red-white-and blue.

It's terrible, horrible that women anywhere get raped. There are still many rapes in this country.

Brave women journalists who put themselves in harms way have more courage, more patriotic, and more balls than the treasonous, gutless men in high political positions and seats in government who want to reduce their liberties and rights while nested in their cozy, secure mansions and government buildings.
:roll:


On this fine day, 237 years ago, the mission statement of the United States was signed.

Thomas Jefferson said:
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.
When will we live up to the nature of so fine a creed and protect all human beings, all created equally?

When will we the people do our duty?
 

choiceone

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:roll:


On this fine day, 237 years ago, the mission statement of the United States was signed.



When will we live up to the nature of so fine a creed and protect all human beings, all created equally?

When will we the people do our duty?
When you finally figure out that the last line is the key to the message: honor is sacred and lives are not, and you can't have honor if you don't have liberty. These guys risked their lives for liberty. Meanwhile, you're out there trying to destroy other people's liberty so that you can get more human lives out of their bodies. You don't even understand the creed of our Founding Fathers.
 

nota bene

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Nota...I was actually on the edge of applauding your post...until it was suddenly shaded with

What I see women doing is standing up against an oppressive group of extremist politicians who want to reduce women to subservient, obedient objects controlled by government and "men" who want to put women in their place.

If they have to protest fully naked to get the job done...so be it. And the signs I've recently seen women waving isn't nasty enough. They are protesting against political actions by tyrants who want to return women's political status back to times before women could vote or have any say in defense of themselves.

Now that's offering some red-white-and blue.

It's terrible, horrible that women anywhere get raped. There are still many rapes in this country.

Brave women journalists who put themselves in harms way have more courage, more patriotic, and more balls than the treasonous, gutless men in high political positions and seats in government who want to reduce their liberties and rights while nested in their cozy, secure mansions and government buildings.
Honi soit qui mal y pense (The Order of the Garter: "Shame on him who thinks evil upon it").

Insofar as I'm aware, there were/are no half-nekkid women protesting in Austin. You live there but didn't know this? What? I had no intention of suggesting that the pro-choice protesters were half-naked.

What I was trying to do was offer a contrast to the women who are covered on the streets of Cairo but who are nevertheless being sexually assaulted. The point is that we can protest alongside men dressed mainly as we please or otherwise behaving "shockingly" without fear of being raped. What a shame that you are so eager to see ill-intent in my words.

My intention, and so I repeat it today on Independence Day, was to celebrate a great nation's birthday with an example with which I thought we could all agree--how lucky we are, especially the women and girls, to live in a country where we can exercise our rights without being raped.
 

Josie

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My country celebrated it's birthday on the 1st. I'm thankful to live in a free nation where women can make their own medical choices in consultation with their doctors and those who would threaten that right are relatively few and ineffective in getting their agenda accomplished.
Does it creep anyone else out that vacuuming a little one out of its mother's body, essentially ripping that little one's body completely apart and tossing it away, is called "a medical choice"?
 

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Does it creep anyone else out that vacuuming a little one out of its mother's body, essentially ripping that little one's body completely apart and tossing it away, is called "a medical choice"?
...or "liberty".
 

Removable Mind

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:roll:


On this fine day, 237 years ago, the mission statement of the United States was signed.



When will we live up to the nature of so fine a creed and protect all human beings, all created equally?

When will we the people do our duty?
Jay while that is a nice sentiment...it's much more complex. So complex that it may be impossible to achieve...without a truly defined meaning of "created equal". But thus far...not many agree on exactly what that means.

Now keep in mind that "created equally" should be way more than a metaphor...or some philosophical expression of humanness.

So...against my better judgment of even making this request. Please, with a much detail as possible, describe how " ALL ARE CREATED EQUALLY"?

Oh, and Jay...Happy Independence Day to you...and may there be Liberty and Justice for All...(well...depending how each of us define the word "all").
 

Scrabaholic

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Does it creep anyone else out that vacuuming a little one out of its mother's body, essentially ripping that little one's body completely apart and tossing it away, is called "a medical choice"?
:roll:

What creeps me out is people who think I am breeding stock and should be forced to risk my life gestating a pregnancy I don't want.
 

CRUE CAB

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My country celebrated it's birthday on the 1st. I'm thankful to live in a free nation where women can make their own medical choices in consultation with their doctors and those who would threaten that right are relatively few and ineffective in getting their agenda accomplished.
So you are proud to live in a nation where the unborn are thought so little of?
 

CRUE CAB

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Does it creep anyone else out that vacuuming a little one out of its mother's body, essentially ripping that little one's body completely apart and tossing it away, is called "a medical choice"?
Its more than just creepy. Its disgusting.
 

SmokeAndMirrors

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Meh. You might have an argument if there was no such thing as birth control. :shrug:
Because contraception is always 100% effective and sex is always consensual.

Oh, wait, we're talking about reality. Neither of those things are true in reality.
 

iguanaman

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Does it creep anyone else out that vacuuming a little one out of its mother's body, essentially ripping that little one's body completely apart and tossing it away, is called "a medical choice"?
Not nearly as creepy as stoning a women to death for adultery but that is legal in many countries that don't allow abortion.
Do you think we should stone women that have abortions?
 

nota bene

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Because contraception is always 100% effective and sex is always consensual.

Oh, wait, we're talking about reality. Neither of those things are true in reality.
Neither is talking about most contraceptives failing when they are used reliably. If you look at Guttmacher stats, 46% of women seeking abortion didn't use any when they became pregnant. Condom, the pill, whatever--are mainly very reliable when used faithfully.

And rape-pregnancies aren't ordinary either.
 

SmokeAndMirrors

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Neither is talking about most contraceptives failing when they are used reliably. If you look at Guttmacher stats, 46% of women seeking abortion didn't use any when they became pregnant. Condom, the pill, whatever--are mainly very reliable when used faithfully.

And rape-pregnancies aren't ordinary either.
Yup. And whose fault is that, exactly?

As a millennial who sat through a supposed "sex ed" class that told me contraception doesn't work and is evil (at a public school, no less), I think America needs to look solely at itself for the cause of that problem.

But it's worth noting that even in countries where contraceptive use is very high and very effective, abortion does not simply cease to exist (although it is far less common).
 

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How about we not turn a 4th of July thread into a pointless abortion thread...
 

SmokeAndMirrors

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How about we not turn a 4th of July thread into a pointless abortion thread...
I think that was kinda thwarted by posting it in the abortion forum and calling pro-choice protesters "nasty." Maybe it's just me...
 

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I think that was kinda thwarted by posting it in the abortion forum and calling pro-choice protesters "nasty." Maybe it's just me...
]

What makes you think my comment wasn't directed at the OP as well?
 

SmokeAndMirrors

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]

What makes you think my comment wasn't directed at the OP as well?
Nothin'. Just saying. It's kinda of inevitable that will turn into an abortion thread. Why else would the OP have posted it here?
 

the_recruit

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Nothin'. Just saying. It's kinda of inevitable that will turn into an abortion thread. Why else would the OP have posted it here?
To make it an abortion thread. Which I don't like.
 

SmokeAndMirrors

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To make it an abortion thread. Which I don't like.
I hear ya. I do.

But I think the inflammatory nature of of it -- the whole "you people should feel lucky we even allow you to speak" attitude -- deserves addressing. We have a right to speak out for women 365 days a year.
 
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