On biology and transgenderism (is lia Thomas a woman?)

[Binary_Digit]

chromosomes.

Intersex.

 

[Lisa]

Because she has a medical exemption

She has no more medical exemption than anyone else. Many exceptional athletes have a genetic component.

Do you want to do like they do in sports such as drag racing and have staggered starts to even the field by handicapping one competitor? Or add weights to a competitor such as they do in horse racing?

 

[vegas giants]

Why should she be exempted from athletic competition if she is female?


Your idea is illogical. How is it a sport if it is non-competitive? That is dangerously close to religious thinking.

Recreational leagues

 

[Questerr]

Given the recent interest stirred up on this, I wanted to find out was I missing something.

Has biology answered the question of whether lia Thomson the dude swimmer that stole a girls trophy (or any trans) is a woman? Is he a woman according to biology?

The Science of Biology is pretty clear that biology determines *sex* not *gender*.

 

[vegas giants]

She has no more medical exemption than anyone else. Many exceptional athletes have a genetic component.

Do you want to do like they do in sports such as drag racing and have staggered starts to even the field by handicapping one competitor? Or add weights to a competitor such as they do in horse racing?

That would be awful to for all women in sports?


Weights on men so they can compete with women in swimming???


Horrible idea

 

[Lisa]

Recreational leagues

Absolutely not. You can not lock her out of athletic competition because you are a transphobe, as we have proven in another transgender thread. If she has transitioned as a teen we would not be having this discussion because she would not have any advantage. Your argument to deny care until the age of 18 is beginning to bite you in the backside.


Will you admit your hypocrisy and change or will you attack me for it and try to move the goalposts?

That would be awful to for all women in sports?


Weights on men so they can compete with women in swimming???


Horrible idea

Thanks for admitting that you are a transphobe. Lia is not a male, unless you ignore her gender identity, which as a transphobe, you are desperate to do to create your strawman.

 

[The Old Soul]

Why should she be exempted from athletic competition if she is female?


Your idea is illogical. How is it a sport if it is non-competitive? That is dangerously close to religious thinking.

Benefit of a doubt; non-determinant may be a better phrase.

 

[Simpletruther]

The Science of Biology is pretty clear that biology determines *sex* not *gender*.

So why did brown Jackson refer to biologists to determine what a woman is?

 

[Simpletruther]

Intersex.

And?

 

[Lisa]

Benefit of a doubt; non-determinant may be a better phrase.

Trans people are not non-determinant, despite what you want to believe. We are not going to create of caste system of sexuality as a way for you to hide your transphobia.

 

[Questerr]

So why did brown Jackson refer to biologists to determine what a woman is?

What makes her an expert?

 

[Grim17]

If she transitioned completely medically; she is a woman. It also depends on when she started since it takes at least 5 years to completely transition

So he/she is going to have full chromosome replacement and full skeletal replacement?

If so, that would be a miracle since I don't think either have ever been done or that they are even possible.

 

[Binary_Digit]

And?

Did you even watch the video? There's a such thing as being intersex. Chromosomes don't always determine a person's sex. She has both a vagina and testicles (until they were surgically removed). Some people are born with both a penis and a vagina and have menstrual cycles. Point is, there's a gray area. It's not always black and white.

 

[The Old Soul]

Trans people are not non-determinant, despite what you want to believe. We are not going to create of caste system of sexuality as a way for you to hide your transphobia.

Benefit of a doubt; I meant non-determinant sports: competitive events that could result in a lost scholarship, dashed opportunity, or misdirected acceptance at an amateur or professional sanctioned event due to transgender participation.

Could you please clarify 'you' as specific or general when referencing transphobia? THX

 

[The Old Soul]

Case in point - it has virtually nothing to do with the actual women athletes:

Why Do We Only Pay Attention to Women’s Sports When Trans Women Excel At Them?​

 

[Simpletruther]

Did you even watch the video? There's a such thing as being intersex. Chromosomes don't always determine a person's sex. She has both a vagina and testicles (until they were surgically removed). Some people are born with both a penis and a vagina and have menstrual cycles. Point is, there's a gray area. It's not always black and white.

Yea that is old news. But you are incorrect, chromosomes do determine sex, be it male female or intersex(in between).
It is the chromosomes that determine all that.

 

[Simpletruther]

What makes her an expert?

She deferred to experts, but according to you the wrong ones. I

She doesn't even know who or what determines what a woman is, let alone what those people have determined (according to you).

I m assuming you are not an expert, yet you claim to know, as do millions of mothers claim to.

 

[Argent]

Here's some science that lends insight into the fluidity of biological sex. The full article link is at the bottom.

"Contrary to popular belief, scientific research helps us better understand the unique and real transgender experience. Specifically, through three subjects: (1) genetics, (2) neurobiology and (3) endocrinology. So, hold onto your parts, whatever they may be. It’s time for “the talk.”

BIOLOGICAL SEX: HOW YOU GET IT​

Nearly everyone in middle school biology learned that if you’ve got XX chromosomes, you’re a female; if you’ve got XY, you’re a male. This tired simplification is great for teaching the importance of chromosomes but betrays the true nature of biological sex. The popular belief that your sex arises only from your chromosomal makeup is wrong. The truth is, your biological sex isn’t carved in stone, but a living system with the potential for change.

Why? Because biological sex is far more complicated than XX or XY (or XXY, or just X). XX individuals could present with male gonads. XY individuals can have ovaries. How? Through a set of complex genetic signals that, in the course of a human’s development, begins with a small group of cells called the bipotential primordium and a gene called SRY.

A newly fertilized embryo initially develops without any indication of its sex. At around five weeks, a group of cells clump together to form the bipotential primordium. These cells are neither male nor female but have the potential to turn into testes, ovaries or neither. After the primordium forms, SRY—a gene on the Y chromosome discovered in 1990, thanks to the participation of intersex XX males and XY females—might be activated.*

Though it is still not fully understood, we know SRY plays a role in pushing the primordium toward male gonads. But SRY is not a simple on/off switch, it’s a precisely timed start signal, the first chord of the “male gonad” symphony. A group of cells (instrument sections) must all express SRY (notes of the chord), at the right time (conductor?). Without that first chord, the embryo will play a different symphony: female gonads, or something in between.

And there’s more! While brief and coordinated SRY-activation initiates the process of male-sex differentiation, genes like DMRT1 and FOXL2 maintain certain sexual characteristics during adulthood. If these genes stop functioning, gonads can change and exhibit characteristics of the opposite sex. Without these players constantly active, certain components of your biological sex can change.

There’s still more! SRY, DMRT1, and FOXL2 aren’t directly involved with other aspects of biological sex. Secondary sex characteristics—penis, vagina, appearance, behavior—arise later, from hormones, environment, experience, and genes interacting. To explore this, we move from the body to the brain, where biology becomes behavior."

Stop Using Phony Science to Justify Transphobia

Actual research shows that sex is anything but binary

blogs.scientificamerican.com

 

[Binary_Digit]

chromosomes do determine sex, be it male female

Right, when everything works normally.

or intersex(in between).

I disagree. The binary dichotomy of either male or female doesn't fit for intersex people. If a person with XY chromosomes can develop a vagina and have menstrual cycles, then chromosomes are clearly not the only thing that determines sex.

 

[vegas giants]

Absolutely not. You can not lock her out of athletic competition because you are a transphobe, as we have proven in another transgender thread. If she has transitioned as a teen we would not be having this discussion because she would not have any advantage. Your argument to deny care until the age of 18 is beginning to bite you in the backside.


Will you admit your hypocrisy and change or will you attack me for it and try to move the goalposts?


Thanks for admitting that you are a transphobe. Lia is not a male, unless you ignore her gender identity, which as a transphobe, you are desperate to do to create your strawman.

So have you always hated womens rights?

 

[eohrnberger]

So he/she is going to have full chromosome replacement and full skeletal replacement?

If so, that would be a miracle since I don't think either have ever been done or that they are even possible.

Well, you'd also have to add a musculature replacement to that list as well. The puberty male musculature gain from testosterone hormones is well know, and a advantage which wouldn't completely recede due to hormone treatments.

 

[diz]

As far as I’m concerned, how a person presents themself to me is how I accept them. I make no judgment beyond that, period.

Biology includes more than outward appearances. Like another poster, I’ve also read about studies finding physical differences between cisgender and transgender brains. No telling what else scientists may find with further studies.

So you would advocate brain tests to determine if someone is a woman?

And if someone who wants to identify as a woman can’t pass the brain test they can’t? If not why do brain tests matter all?

 

[RaleBulgarian]

So you would advocate brain tests to determine if someone is a woman?

And if someone who wants to identify as a woman can’t pass the brain test they can’t? If not why do brain tests matter all?

You have completely misinterpreted my post.

Hire a reading comprehension tutor.

 

[diz]

You have completely misinterpreted my post.

Hire a reading comprehension tutor.

Or you could explain what I misinterpreted. Cause this feels more like a dodge.

Why exactly do these brain tests matter for who is and isn’t a woman?

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Or you could explain what I misinterpreted. Cause this feels more like a dodge.

Why exactly do these brain tests matter for who is and isn’t a woman?

I’m not interested in tutoring you, or dumbing down my posts to accommodate your limited comprehension skills.

Move on.