Omniscient & Omnipotent ???

[Dragonfly]

Is your god both omniscient, and omnipotent?

I mean, that's part of what being a god is all about isn't it?
On some level?

For example:

When your god created the heavens and the Earth, did he know that Adolph Hitler would be born in 1889, and grow up to become the maniac he became?
Before Adam and Eve picked that apple, did your god know Americans would invent the atomic bomb and drop it on Japan, twice, in 1945?
Before a pandemic like Covid-19 breaks out, does your god already know exactly how many, and exactly who will die from it, and when?

 

[zyzygy]

Is your god both omniscient, and omnipotent?

I mean, that's part of what being a god is all about isn't it?
On some level?

For example:

When your god created the heavens and the Earth, did he know that Adolph Hitler would be born in 1889, and grow up to become the maniac he became?
Before Adam and Eve picked that apple, did your god know Americans would invent the atomic bomb and drop it on Japan, twice, in 1945?
Before a pandemic like Covid-19 breaks out, does your god already know exactly how many, and exactly who will die from it, and when?

God is a dangerous psychopath.

 

[Mr Person]

Well, it's also supposed to be all-knowing/all-powerful/all-present. The last bit meaning yes, because this God supposedly exists at all points within space-time and without it; it encompasses reality. From this you could deduce determinism.

Or you could conclude that time simply doesn't work like that. Yes, the God is there at all of it simultaneously, but you are still the one who made the choices you made. aka, it always happens that way and always will have happened that way because you always made the same choices at the same times.

But that is arguably only if this God creates reality but then does not intervene even once. And now to put a constraint on God: this means God's only choice in regard to determinism is either to spark reality with some random seed and do nothing. OR intervene. But because this God exists at all points in reality, then an intervention in one point is necessarily not an intervention at all the other points. Determinism.



But really, it's silly talking about all this. The concept of an all-all-all God encompasses reality. It cannot be proven or disproven.

 

[OrphanSlug]

opcorn2: (This should be fun.)

 

[Taylor]

Is your god both omniscient, and omnipotent?

I mean, that's part of what being a god is all about isn't it?
On some level?

For example:

When your god created the heavens and the Earth, did he know that Adolph Hitler would be born in 1889, and grow up to become the maniac he became?
Before Adam and Eve picked that apple, did your god know Americans would invent the atomic bomb and drop it on Japan, twice, in 1945?
Before a pandemic like Covid-19 breaks out, does your god already know exactly how many, and exactly who will die from it, and when?

It's not as if time was just standing around waiting for things to be placed sequentially in line.

 

[Dragonfly]

It's not as if time was just standing around waiting for things to be placed sequentially in line.

I don't understand this response.

Please explain.

 

[Valery]

Yes. My God and your God is omniscient and omnipotent.

 

[Dragonfly]

Yes. My God and your God is omniscient and omnipotent.

Who is your god exactly?

How do you know it's omniscient and omnipotent?

Trust me when I say this last part - you and I do NOT have the same god.

 

[Valery]

Who is your god exactly?

How do you know it's omniscient and omnipotent?

Trust me when I say this last part - you and I do NOT have the same god.

Allah is my God and your God.

Do you mean, how do i know He is so according to Islamic teachings or do you mean in general how it can be known?

Do you suppose there could be two omnipotent and omnicent Gods?

 

[Dragonfly]

Allah is my God and your God.

Do you mean, how do i know He is so according to Islamic teachings or do you mean in general how it can be known?

Do you suppose there could be two omnipotent and omnicent Gods?

Allah is not my god.

More importantly though, if one is possible, why isn't more than one just as possible?

 

[WCH]

Is your god both omniscient, and omnipotent?

I mean, that's part of what being a god is all about isn't it?
On some level?

For example:

When your god created the heavens and the Earth, did he know that Adolph Hitler would be born in 1889, and grow up to become the maniac he became?
Before Adam and Eve picked that apple, did your god know Americans would invent the atomic bomb and drop it on Japan, twice, in 1945?
Before a pandemic like Covid-19 breaks out, does your god already know exactly how many, and exactly who will die from it, and when?

Seek him out and discover for yourself is my best advice. Who knows...you might find new words to describe him.

 

[Dragonfly]

Seek him out and discover for yourself is my best advice. Who knows...you might find new words to describe him.

And if the god I seek out, and find is Brahma? Then what?

Or what if the god I seek and find is actually a SHE?

 

[RAMOSS]

Yes. My God and your God is omniscient and omnipotent.

Being Omniscient and being omnipotent are mutually exclusive traits. It you know what you are going to be doing for eternity because you are ominiscient, you do not have the abilty to deviate from what you know you are going to do. If you deviate from what you know you are going to do , you are not omniscient. If you can't deviate from what you know you are going to do, you are not omnipotent.

 

[RAMOSS]

Or what if the god I seek and find is actually a SHE?

Then it's death by snu snu.

 

[blarg]

Is your god both omniscient, and omnipotent?

I mean, that's part of what being a god is all about isn't it?
On some level?

For example:

When your god created the heavens and the Earth, did he know that Adolph Hitler would be born in 1889, and grow up to become the maniac he became?
Before Adam and Eve picked that apple, did your god know Americans would invent the atomic bomb and drop it on Japan, twice, in 1945?
Before a pandemic like Covid-19 breaks out, does your god already know exactly how many, and exactly who will die from it, and when?

is the point of this that if god knows he cant actually change anything?

 

[Valery]

if one is possible, why isn't more than one just as possible?

If one is all powerful it means everything else is under his power — that would include the other "all powerful" being.

 

[Valery]

is the point of this that if god knows he cant actually change anything?

My first guess is that it's about their thinking (atheists) that because they can't understand God, God - according to their twisted reasoning - cannot be.

 

[watsup]

The mind of God: “I’m the source of all that is good, it I’m going to make a creation that I know for certain will eventually contain evil.”

Uh-huh.

 

[Dragonfly]

If one is all powerful it means everything else is under his power — that would include the other "all powerful" being.

There's nothing that says "all powerful" means there can be only one.

"All powerful" simply means there's no more power to be attained.

Doesn't mean multiple, or many other entities can't be all powerful too.
Many or multiple can be equally "all powerful".

 

[Dragonfly]

is the point of this that if god knows he cant actually change anything?

You could look at it in many ways.

Another way to look at it is that an omniscient and omnipotent god could never be disappointed, angry, or vengeful.

Also very much begs the question what created that omniscient and omnipotent god? What could be so powerful that it could create an god like that?

Also suggests things like evil, and the Devil and such things are enabled and condoned, and ultimately fully controlled by god.
So therefore god is responsible for evil.

The idea of an omniscient and omnipotent god "punishing" Adam and Eve is ludicrous when obviously they did exactly as god intended. Otherwise it can only be assumed god made some mistakes, which then calls into question the whole omniscient part.

If there's an omniscient and omnipotent god, then there's a whole host of questions that can be asked.

 

[zyzygy]

My first guess is that it's about their thinking (atheists) that because they can't understand God, God - according to their twisted reasoning - cannot be.

Wrong. I merely ask for proof of the existence of the god in question. There is nothing twisted about that. Theists have the twisted logic, the start with the conclusion.

 

[VanceMack]

Is your god both omniscient, and omnipotent?

I mean, that's part of what being a god is all about isn't it?
On some level?

For example:

When your god created the heavens and the Earth, did he know that Adolph Hitler would be born in 1889, and grow up to become the maniac he became?
Before Adam and Eve picked that apple, did your god know Americans would invent the atomic bomb and drop it on Japan, twice, in 1945?
Before a pandemic like Covid-19 breaks out, does your god already know exactly how many, and exactly who will die from it, and when?

Depends on what you believe of God. If you believe in an omnipotent and all powerful God then I suppose you would assign omniscience as well. And you might believe in a God that controls and directs every act and action or that intervenes on a whim. But if you believe in a loving Father that HAPPENS TO BE omnipotent, then I think you would be closer to understanding God and Gods role.

As a parent, do you KNOW your children are going to struggle? Suffer? Experience pain and heartache? Do you let them and if so, what kind of an earthly god are you to allow them to experience life? Of course...the alternative is to keep them in bubble wrap, protect them. Keep them isolated in the basement, locked away form all stimulus and feeding them only things for their sustenance. For their entire existence.

If however you recognize how horrible that existence would be then then you as a parent have the obligation to love them, nurture them, teach them...and then let them grow and know experiences...some wonderful and some horrible. No matter how desperately you would WANT to keep them from pain you would understand that at some point you HAVE to let them live...even if that means sometimes they die.

And in that moment you begin to have a small glimpse of what Gods existence is.

 

[Valery]

Depends on what you believe of God. If you believe in an omnipotent and all powerful God then I suppose you would assign omniscience as well. And you might believe in a God that controls and directs every act and action or that intervenes on a whim. But if you believe in a loving Father that HAPPENS TO BE omnipotent, then I think you would be closer to understanding God and Gods role.

As a parent, do you KNOW your children are going to struggle? Suffer? Experience pain and heartache? Do you let them and if so, what kind of an earthly god are you to allow them to experience life?

So, perhaps atheists who use this argument should not have children. :mrgreen: if they do, they must be evil.

 

[Valery]

Being Omniscient and being omnipotent are mutually exclusive traits. It you know what you are going to be doing for eternity because you are ominiscient, you do not have the abilty to deviate from what you know you are going to do. If you deviate from what you know you are going to do , you are not omniscient. If you can't deviate from what you know you are going to do, you are not omnipotent.

That's just your little trick because you think of God as similar to a human being. The Holy Qur'an says in Surat al-Ikhlas verse 4 (interpretation of the meaning):
"Say, He is God, the One
God, the Self-sufficient One
He does not give birth, nor was He born
and there is nothing like Him"

 

[VanceMack]

So, perhaps atheists who use this argument should not have children. :mrgreen: if they do, they must be evil.

It depends on if you are trying to have an argument or a discussion. I have come to find arguments about religion to be a waste of time.