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Oliver Stone Slammed by US Media

samsmart

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I think that Stone's comments were less about saying how nice a guy Hitler really was and was more of a political comment on how the U.S. supports Israel unerringly even when it goes against U.S. interests and how a bloc of Jewish interests in the mainstream media promote that U.S. support of Israel.

Either way, I seriously doubt that a large number of Americans are going to spray swastikas on synagogues because of what Oliver Stone says.
 

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Because of the overblown conditions the Allies imposed upon Germany at its defeat. Why do you think?

Those conditions caused Japan and Italy to start wars all over the world? While I agree that the economic conditions in Germany enabled Hitler to become dictator, I've always believed that the idea that WW1 led to WW2 is a bit of a stretch.
 

Fiddytree

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Thanks Stone for your brilliant insight into history of foreign policy and war....*snooze
 

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Oliver Stone's stock and trade is making movies of conspiracy theories. Who knows -- maybe he is just publicizing his next movie -- "Those puppetmaster Joos are at it again!"


coming soon to a theater near you......
 

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Those conditions caused Japan and Italy to start wars all over the world? While I agree that the economic conditions in Germany enabled Hitler to become dictator, I've always believed that the idea that WW1 led to WW2 is a bit of a stretch.

Well, one could argue that the domination of Europe by British and French powers, and by extension American powers, led those countries to abuses on the world stage, in particular Europe and Asia, was one reason why Germany and Japan felt such animosity that felt forced to retaliate against Britain, France, and the U.S.

Italy just joined in because that nation is secretly controlled by the Vatican, and the Vatican has been infiltrated by lizard aliens from the dimension beyond.
 

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I think that Stone's comments were less about saying how nice a guy Hitler really was and was more of a political comment on how the U.S. supports Israel unerringly even when it goes against U.S. interests and how a bloc of Jewish interests in the mainstream media promote that U.S. support of Israel.

Either way, I seriously doubt that a large number of Americans are going to spray swastikas on synagogues because of what Oliver Stone says.


So you are saying that if only a small fringe in America listens to him and sprays swastikas on synagogues that is fine with you.

As to the first part of your message, I guess that you are of the mind that 2% of the population controls the views of the other 98% percent. Unless the other 98% are stupid sheep not sure how this happens. Usually the people who say the country has been duped are losers that need a reason why they find themselves at the bottom.
Easier to blame some others than admit that maybe I did not ct it in the real world.
 

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As to the first part of your message, I guess that you are of the mind that 2% of the population controls the views of the other 98% percent. Unless the other 98% are stupid sheep not sure how this happens. Usually the people who say the country has been duped are losers that need a reason why they find themselves at the bottom.
Easier to blame some others than admit that maybe I did not ct it in the real world.

I agree. One ofthe reasons antisemitism fourishes as it does is that those with a chip on their shoulder looking to blame somebody else find such a rich history or writings, and such a ready made formula for doing so. Their paranoia and resentment would be so much more obvious if they were blaming a conspiracy of aliens or mythical creatures for the world's ills, but the fact that antisemitism has become increasinigly fashionable makes it all that more attractive. Heck, everybody's blaming the Joos, right?
 

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Those conditions caused Japan and Italy to start wars all over the world? While I agree that the economic conditions in Germany enabled Hitler to become dictator, I've always believed that the idea that WW1 led to WW2 is a bit of a stretch.

Out of curiosity - why do you think WW2 came about then?

WW2 qualifies as world-wide because it takes in Japan's war with China and then Russia, USA fighting with Japan and the obvious European war. Japan's involvement with Germany is more likely because the same combatants faced Japan and Germany at the same time.
 

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So you are saying that if only a small fringe in America listens to him and sprays swastikas on synagogues that is fine with you.

As to the first part of your message, I guess that you are of the mind that 2% of the population controls the views of the other 98% percent. Unless the other 98% are stupid sheep not sure how this happens. Usually the people who say the country has been duped are losers that need a reason why they find themselves at the bottom.
Easier to blame some others than admit that maybe I did not ct it in the real world.


I agree. One ofthe reasons antisemitism fourishes as it does is that those with a chip on their shoulder looking to blame somebody else find such a rich history or writings, and such a ready made formula for doing so. Their paranoia and resentment would be so much more obvious if they were blaming a conspiracy of aliens or mythical creatures for the world's ills, but the fact that antisemitism has become increasinigly fashionable makes it all that more attractive. Heck, everybody's blaming the Joos, right?


When I was in college, I met a girl with the last name of Mueller. Now this girl was raised in the South, was a total redneck, and had the thickest Southern accent one could ever have.

When she was in elementary school, she had a girl friend who was Jewish. She would often go over to her Jewish friend's grandmother's house to play. However, her Jewish friend told her to never tell the Jewish grandmother her last name. Why?

Because her last name was German, and the Jewish grandmother would prohibit the girls from seeing each other. Despite the fact that the girl with the German last name was American, redneck, never left the United States, whose family had been in America for generations, and had nothing to do with European Germans, let alone Nazis.

Would it be anti-semitic to call that Jewish grandmother racist because of those attitudes?

Criticism of Jewish policies isn't anti-semitism. Criticism of Israeli policies aren't anti-semitism. And if we're going to jump on a person because someone may take what one person says to a violent extreme then we should just cut out everybody's tongue and abolish all forms of communication because it's all too easy for one person to do that.
 

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Those conditions caused Japan and Italy to start wars all over the world? While I agree that the economic conditions in Germany enabled Hitler to become dictator, I've always believed that the idea that WW1 led to WW2 is a bit of a stretch.

I'm not sure one can argue that WWI directly led to WWII. However, the harsh terms of the Treaty of Versailles most definitely contributed. They created an environment in Germany that inflicted pain on many Germans. During difficult times, a charismatic leader--and Hitler, demented as he was, was a charismatic leader--can exploit the difficult situation to rise to power. By pointing to simplistic causes of the hardship and offering simplistic remedies, he/she can garner support among a suffering public desperate for a way out of the pain/hardship. Had the terms been less severe e.g., did not involve extreme reparations, among other things, Germany might well have been a more prosperous and satisfied nation. Under such circumstances, Hitler might well have never gained traction in Germany. Fortunately, following WWII, the Allies did not repeat the blunder of Versailles. Peace terms were far more generous.
 
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Those conditions caused Japan and Italy to start wars all over the world? While I agree that the economic conditions in Germany enabled Hitler to become dictator, I've always believed that the idea that WW1 led to WW2 is a bit of a stretch.
I don't think its at all a stretch:
Of the many provisions in the treaty, one of the most important and controversial required Germany to accept sole responsibility for causing the war and, under the terms of articles 231–248 (later known as the War Guilt clauses), to disarm, make substantial territorial concessions and pay reparations to certain countries that had formed the Entente powers. The total cost of these reparations was assessed at 132 billion Marks (then $31.4 billion, £6,600 million) in 1921 which is roughly equivalent to $400 Billion US Dollars as of 2010, a sum that many economists at the time deemed to be excessive.[2] This was a sum that many economists deemed to be excessive because it would have taken Germany until 1988 to pay.[3] The Treaty was undermined by subsequent events starting as early as 1932 and was widely flouted by the mid-1930s.[4]
The result of these competing and sometimes conflicting goals among the victors was compromise that left none contented: Germany was not pacified or conciliated, nor permanently weakened. This would prove to be a factor leading to later conflicts, notably and directly the Second World War.[5]

Treaty of Versailles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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I'm not sure one can argue that WWI directly led to WWII. However, the harsh terms of the Treaty of Versailles most definitely contributed. They created an environment in Germany that inflicted pain on many Germans. During difficult times, a charismatic leader--and Hitler, demented as he was, was a charismatic leader--can exploit the difficult situation to rise to power. By pointing to simplistic causes of the hardship and offering simplistic remedies, he/she can garner support among a suffering public desperate for a way out of the pain/hardship. Had the terms been less severe e.g., did not involve extreme reparations, among other things, Germany might well have been a more prosperous and satisfied nation. Under such circumstances, Hitler might well have never gained traction in Germany.

Actually it was more complicated than that. Remember Germany was run by a Kaiser up to the end of WW1, and those around him refused to let power go after the war even though the Kaiser was out. At the same time the Bolshevik revolution in Russia threatened to spread to Germany so the ruling class formed a sort of alliance with the socialists in 1919 and the Wiemar Republic under Bismark was put in place. But it was always a weak republic since the old royalists still controlled the military, where highly conservative and right wing and were afraid of the Bolsheviks. The Socialists (SPD) that were invited into the fold to run the country (kinda) also feared the Bolsheviks, but could also not stand the Royalists, which lead to political instability and lack of coherent policies. Add to that the harsh terms and moral blow that the Treaty of Versailles put on Germany then you had a big problem. On top of that Germany was very isolated with many countries refusing to trade with them, and then the depression happened. In such a climate of fear of the Bolsheviks, political instability, and the clash of tradition and progressives, a charismatic personality like Hitler could easily gain a foothold with the right words (screw policies).

Fortunately, following WWII, the Allies did not repeat the blunder of Versailles. Peace terms were far more generous.

Actually they were not. They were harsher in many ways. While the monetary reperations were harsher after WW1 .. Germany just paid the last bit this month I believe, the political and social consequences after WW2 was much much harsher. The reason that Germany turned out as it did was a brutal Allied regime of cleansing the old and putting new rules in and never letting them forget their past. Add to that the country was totally shattered and any industry that was left, was carted off by the allies to their home countries. Germany was looted after WW2 by the allies, legally and illegally. That the allies then turned on themselves and the cold war started, only meant that the policies had to be changed some what, but the control over Germany was not really let up (politically) for decades and even some would claim that Germany did not gain full independence before 1989 when the wall came down. After the war, it was a standing order that no member of the Nazi party could hold office or important jobs in the new Germany. That changed after a few years because of the cold war, but the policy did have the effect that there was an insurgency for years in Germany after the war.
 

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I think this might fit on this thread.



First World War officially ends - Telegraph [New Window]
Sep 28, 2010 ... The First World War will officially end on Sunday, 92 years after the guns ... debt that was the price for one world war and laid the foundations for another. ... Gordon Brown 'cowardly' over Lockerbie bomber silence ...
http://www.telegraph.
 

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When I was in college, I met a girl with the last name of Mueller. Now this girl was raised in the South, was a total redneck, and had the thickest Southern accent one could ever have.

When she was in elementary school, she had a girl friend who was Jewish. She would often go over to her Jewish friend's grandmother's house to play. However, her Jewish friend told her to never tell the Jewish grandmother her last name. Why?

Because her last name was German, and the Jewish grandmother would prohibit the girls from seeing each other. Despite the fact that the girl with the German last name was American, redneck, never left the United States, whose family had been in America for generations, and had nothing to do with European Germans, let alone Nazis.

Would it be anti-semitic to call that Jewish grandmother racist because of those attitudes?

Maybe... but I wouldn't call her that.

She likely lived during the German Holocaust and probably lost family, friends or both to Hitler's genocide... so I would say she had a measure of justification for her attitude. You don't know what that woman went through or the pain she suffered. Now if her grandchildren and their children have the same attitudes toward people of German descent today, then I would say labeling them "racist" would be justified.

Criticism of Jewish policies isn't anti-semitism. Criticism of Israeli policies aren't anti-semitism.

True... as long as it isn't accompanied with support for Hamas. What makes criticism of Israeli policies "anti-Semitic", is when it's used as justification for the actions of the Palestinians and others.

For example, When a child teases a dog, and is told over and over again not to tease the dog because it will bite them, who's to blame if the child doesn't listen and gets bit? The child is to blame... not the dog. Yet with the recent flotilla incident, there are actually people out there who completely ignore the fact that the members of that flotilla made the conscience choice to "tease the dog" by first attempting to break through that blockade, and then choosing to fight the Israelis when they tried to stop them by boarding the ship.

That flotilla provoked the entire incident, yet look at how many people support and defend them? Anyone that condemns Israel for doing exactly what they were expected to do, and doesn't blame the flotilla for provoking that incident, is a classic example of "anti-semitism" in my view.
 

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Maybe... but I wouldn't call her that.

She likely lived during the German Holocaust and probably lost family, friends or both to Hitler's genocide... so I would say she had a measure of justification for her attitude. You don't know what that woman went through or the pain she suffered. Now if her grandchildren and their children have the same attitudes toward people of German descent today, then I would say labeling them "racist" would be justified.

I understand why that Jewish woman had the attitude that she did. In fact, I sympathize with her. However, to have the attitudes that she had concerning European Germans who initiated a genocide against her people and place them on an American girl who was born two generations after it happened is quite unfair.



True... as long as it isn't accompanied with support for Hamas. What makes criticism of Israeli policies "anti-Semitic", is when it's used as justification for the actions of the Palestinians and others.

For example, When a child teases a dog, and is told over and over again not to tease the dog because it will bite them, who's to blame if the child doesn't listen and gets bit? The child is to blame... not the dog. Yet with the recent flotilla incident, there are actually people out there who completely ignore the fact that the members of that flotilla made the conscience choice to "tease the dog" by first attempting to break through that blockade, and then choosing to fight the Israelis when they tried to stop them by boarding the ship.

That flotilla provoked the entire incident, yet look at how many people support and defend them? Anyone that condemns Israel for doing exactly what they were expected to do, and doesn't blame the flotilla for provoking that incident, is a classic example of "anti-semitism" in my view.

I don't see anywhere where Oliver Stone supports Hamas.

Also, support for the Palestinian people against Israeli policies does not necessarily mean support for Hamas.

All sides have their bad guys. Especially when it comes to the Middle East.
 

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I understand why that Jewish woman had the attitude that she did. In fact, I sympathize with her. However, to have the attitudes that she had concerning European Germans who initiated a genocide against her people and place them on an American girl who was born two generations after it happened is quite unfair.

Unfair, yes... but very understandable. That's why I said that if her grandchildren and their children have the same attitudes, then it's a problem.

I don't see anywhere where Oliver Stone supports Hamas.

No, he's just plain anti-semitic.

Also, support for the Palestinian people against Israeli policies does not necessarily mean support for Hamas.

And there's the rub... You support the Palestinian people over the Israeli government, but those people are ruled by a government they elected. Hamas ran on an anti-Israeli, anti-Jew platform that swore to never recognize the state of Israel. They're a terrorist organization that preaches that the only good Jew, is a dead Jew. They drive that point home by firing rockets into Israeli neighborhoods. That's what the Palestinian people chose as their governing body.

I don't ever hear people on your side of the fence supporting the Israeli people over the Palestinian government... a government that targets them with rocket fire, shoots guns at them from the border, and kidnaps innocents.

Why don't you compare apples to apples? Compare the 2 governments, not the people of one, to the government of the other.


All sides have their bad guys. Especially when it comes to the Middle East.

True.
 
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samsmart

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Unfair, yes... but very understandable. That's why I said that if her grandchildren and their children have the same attitudes, then it's a problem.

So you're saying it's okay to be racist, as long as there's a reason for it.

No, he's just plain anti-semitic.

Okay. How?

Oliver Stone said:
The controversial director complained to the London Sunday Times about "Jewish domination of the media,”

Which is true - Jewish people have been strongly involved first in film and then in television since it's creation. That's not a lie. "Domination" is hyperbole but Jews in the media are a major bloc. That's not anti-semitism.

Oliver Stone said:
Stone, who is half-Jewish, told the Times: “There's a major lobby in the United States. They are hard workers. They stay on top of every comment, the most powerful lobby in Washington. Israel has f---ed up United States foreign policy for years.”

Which is also true. The power the Jewish lobby has over America's foreign policy is quite powerful. This is why an Israeli agent can spy on the U.S. with very little blowback from the U.S. because of it. That statement is not anti-semitic.

Oliver Stone said:
While "Hitler was a Frankenstein [monster],” Stone said, “there was also a Dr. Frankenstein: German industrialists, the Americans and the British. He had a lot of support."

So in this statement Stone does say that Hitler was a Complete Monster; however, Stone also places the culpability on those who helped him. Not only is not anti-semitic, it's telling Jews that it's easy to blame one person and not go after all those who supported that one person.

Oliver Stone said:
Stone continued: "Hitler did far more damage to the Russians than the Jewish people, 25 or 30 million (killed)."

Oliver Stone is reminding Jews that they weren't the only ones harmed by Hitler. Russians, along with gypsies, communists, and homosexuals were killed en masse by Hitler as well. While this does not lessen the impact of the Jewish Holocaust, it is important to remember the other groups that went through their own Holocaust during World War II. Nothing anti-semitic here either.

And there's the rub... You support the Palestinian people over the Israeli government, but those people are ruled by a government they elected. Hamas ran on an anti-Israeli, anti-Jew platform that swore to never recognize the state of Israel. They're a terrorist organization that preaches that the only good Jew, is a dead Jew. They drive that point home by firing rockets into Israeli neighborhoods. That's what the Palestinian people chose as their governing body.

Saying that Palestinians support Hamas for firing rockets into Israel is like saying Americans supported Republicans for bombing Muslims. It is an extreme oversimplification of the political sciences involved and completely dismissive of any Palestinian opposition to Hamas.


I don't ever hear people on your side of the fence supporting the Israeli people over the Palestinian government... a government that targets them with rocket fire, shoots guns at them from the border, and kidnaps innocents.

I'm against the Palestinians firing rockets into Israel. Just as I am against the Israeli government expanding into Palestinian territory with their settlements.

There are assholes on both sides at the top that make life hell for both sides at the bottom. That has always been my policy with regards to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

However, saying that there are assholes at the top of the Israeli government does not make one anti-semitic.

Why don't you compare apples to apples? Compare the 2 governments, not the people of one, to the government of the other.

Okay.

Anger as Israel convicts Arab of rape after he had consensual sex with Jewish woman | Mail Online

Kosher struggle: Israeli women vs sexist Judaism

After

Doesn't look to me like the Israeli government is totally blameless in all it does.


Yes it is, and that's usually my point. There's a lot of blame to go around on all sides with regards to conflicts in the Middle East, especially with regards to the conflicts between Israel and the Palestinians. But criticism of Israels over what they do because of them is not anti-semitic. And just because one has criticism of Israel does not mean one does not have criticism of the Palestinians.
 
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When I was in college, I met a girl with the last name of Mueller. Now this girl was raised in the South, was a total redneck, and had the thickest Southern accent one could ever have.

When she was in elementary school, she had a girl friend who was Jewish. She would often go over to her Jewish friend's grandmother's house to play. However, her Jewish friend told her to never tell the Jewish grandmother her last name. Why?

Because her last name was German, and the Jewish grandmother would prohibit the girls from seeing each other. Despite the fact that the girl with the German last name was American, redneck, never left the United States, whose family had been in America for generations, and had nothing to do with European Germans, let alone Nazis.

Would it be anti-semitic to call that Jewish grandmother racist because of those attitudes?

Criticism of Jewish policies isn't anti-semitism. Criticism of Israeli policies aren't anti-semitism. And if we're going to jump on a person because someone may take what one person says to a violent extreme then we should just cut out everybody's tongue and abolish all forms of communication because it's all too easy for one person to do that.

and how are these canards about undue Jewish influence "criticism of Israeli policy" again?

I think I missed it.
 

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and how are these canards about undue Jewish influence "criticism of Israeli policy" again?

I think I missed it.

Because just because someone criticizes the Jewish lobby over foreign policy doesn't make them anti-semitic. But on the other hand, racism can happen anywhere.
 

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Because just because someone criticizes the Jewish lobby over foreign policy doesn't make them anti-semitic. But on the other hand, racism can happen anywhere.

But you said criticism of Israeli policy. Now you are changing the bar in a most dishonest fashion.

If you actually knew anything about the history of antisemitism, which you so obviously don't, you would realize that the theme of Jews scheming for their own benefit by manipulating others is THE classic antisemitic canard. Antisemitism is all ABOUT portraying Jews as puppetmasters loyal only to themselves, plotting behind the scenes to turn events to their favor.

That you would actually try this underhanded ruse of trying to claim that such portrayals are actually a "criticism of Israeli policy" is certainly predictable enough, but actual criticism of Israeli policy is quite a different matter than conjuring images of Jews as scheming and conniving.
 

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When I was in college, I met a girl with the last name of Mueller. Now this girl was raised in the South, was a total redneck, and had the thickest Southern accent one could ever have.

When she was in elementary school, she had a girl friend who was Jewish. She would often go over to her Jewish friend's grandmother's house to play. However, her Jewish friend told her to never tell the Jewish grandmother her last name. Why?

Because her last name was German, and the Jewish grandmother would prohibit the girls from seeing each other. Despite the fact that the girl with the German last name was American, redneck, never left the United States, whose family had been in America for generations, and had nothing to do with European Germans, let alone Nazis.

Would it be anti-semitic to call that Jewish grandmother racist because of those attitudes?

Criticism of Jewish policies isn't anti-semitism. Criticism of Israeli policies aren't anti-semitism. And if we're going to jump on a person because someone may take what one person says to a violent extreme then we should just cut out everybody's tongue and abolish all forms of communication because it's all too easy for one person to do that.

Would either you or the people who thanked you for the post please explain what Jewish policies are? While you and your brethren are at it you can kindly point out where you see a violent extreme.

You have a right to say anything you like. I would advise you be a mensch and stop talking in code and say what is on your mind.
 

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But you said criticism of Israeli policy. Now you are changing the bar in a most dishonest fashion.

If you actually knew anything about the history of antisemitism, which you so obviously don't, you would realize that the theme of Jews scheming for their own benefit by manipulating others is THE classic antisemitic canard. Antisemitism is all ABOUT portraying Jews as puppetmasters loyal only to themselves, plotting behind the scenes to turn events to their favor.

That you would actually try this underhanded ruse of trying to claim that such portrayals are actually a "criticism of Israeli policy" is certainly predictable enough, but actual criticism of Israeli policy is quite a different matter than conjuring images of Jews as scheming and conniving.

Oliver Stone said that there was a major bloc of Jews in the U.S. media. That's a fact.

Oliver Stone said that the Jewish lobby with regards to U.S. foreign policy is quite strong. That's a fact.

There may be a number of Jews in the U.S. media who use their influence or their wealth to help the Jewish lobby with regards to U.S. foreign policy. If that's the case, there's nothing innately discriminatory about it.

Nothing in what I've read from the article advocates violence against Jews or that Jews should be denied any of their civil rights and civil liberties or human rights.

I still see nothing anti-semitic at all from what he said.
 

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Would either you or the people who thanked you for the post please explain what Jewish policies are? While you and your brethren are at it you can kindly point out where you see a violent extreme.

You have a right to say anything you like. I would advise you be a mensch and stop talking in code and say what is on your mind.

By "Jewish policies" I meant Jewish lobbies that urge U.S. support of Israel and the policies that advance that. I said to distinguish specific Israeli policies. Nothing racist or anti-semitic was meant by that.
 
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