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Oklahoma to Pass Laws Prohibiting Islamic Sharia Laws to Apply

jamesrage

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I love the idea of this, if only such a law was enacted on the federal level. Of course I am sure some loons will say the proposed law is Islamic or xenophobic. But **** those loons, I am pretty sure that they have nothing to base their claim on. Foreign period law should have no bearing on a domestic case. I could care less if for example we decided to copy everyone one of Mexico's anti-illegal immigration laws, a judge should not look to see how Judges in Mexico handle those cases.

I find it odd that the title ABC used blatantly left out the the international laws being banned in their title, perhaps this is deliberate.


Oklahoma to Pass Laws Prohibiting Islamic Sharia Laws to Apply - ABC News

Oklahoma is poised to become the first state in the nation to ban state judges from relying on Islamic law known as Sharia when deciding cases.

The ban is a cornerstone of a "Save our State" amendment to the Oklahoma constitution that was recently approved by the Legislature.

The amendment -- which also would forbid judges from using international laws as a basis for decisions -- will now be put before Oklahoma's voters in November. Approval is expected.

snip....

The proposed Oklahoma amendment is aimed, in part, at "cases of first impression," legal disputes in which there is no law or precedent to resolve the matter at hand.

In such cases, judges might look to laws or rulings in other jurisdictions for guidance. The proposed amendment would block judges in Oklahoma courts from drawing on sharia, or the laws of other nations, in such decisions.

The amendment also is a response to what some conservatives see as a pernicious trend -- cases of liberal judges mostly notably Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg, using foreign laws to shape their opinions in U.S. cases.

"It should not matter what France might do, what Great Britain might do, or what the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia might do," Duncan said. "Court decisions ought to be based on federal law, or state law."
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Sharia Law is inherintely anti-democratic and unconstitutional in most Western Democracies. Sharia Law is simply Anti-Freedom. I am NOT Anti-Islam or Anti-Muslim. But I find Sharia law Barbaric and Ireprehensible.
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

How often is Sharia used by judges to decide cases? This sounds like something done just for popularity, since really, it has zero real effect on anything.
 

jamesrage

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

How often is Sharia used by judges to decide cases? This sounds like something done just for popularity, since really, it has zero real effect on anything.
I do not know about Sharia law but a SC judge has used foreign laws to shape her opinions in U.S. cases.
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Shariah law is already banned by the 1st amendment, this is just grandstanding.
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Shariah law is already banned by the 1st amendment, this is just grandstanding.
Grandstanding...that is the word I was trying to think of. Thank you.
 

jamesrage

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Shariah law is already banned by the 1st amendment, this is just grandstanding.
If you read the article you would know that is not the only thing being banned but also applies to international law as well.
 
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ric27

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Slightly OT, but many of the large U.S. banks have offered Shariah compliant banking for several years. Pre 9/11 even. They have just never really advertised the services very much.
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Funny... So I am guessing that they will ban Jewish law and native American courts too right? If not, then it is another racist xenophobic attempt by the far right in the US.
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Page two would have been nice:

Legal experts contacted by ABC News said they did not know of one instance of a judge in the U.S. invoking sharia in rendering a decision.

"Cases of first impression are rare," said Jim Cohen , a professor at the Fordham University School of Law in New York City, adding, "I have never heard of a case" involving sharia.

Cohen added that he questions whether the proposed amendment would pass constitutional muster.

"Our federal system and our state system is in part governed by the concept of separation of powers. It's far from clear that the Oklahoma legislature can restrict what a separate branch of government can consider in terms of doing its job – in this case, deciding cases," he said.
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Funny... So I am guessing that they will ban Jewish law and native American courts too right? If not, then it is another racist xenophobic attempt by the far right in the US.
Xenophobic, sure. But I don't see this as racist. Islam is not a race, but a culture.
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Funny... So I am guessing that they will ban Jewish law and native American courts too right? If not, then it is another racist xenophobic attempt by the far right in the US.
Damn, you made my day.
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Funny... So I am guessing that they will ban Jewish law and native American courts too right? If not, then it is another racist xenophobic attempt by the far right in the US.
Since when is Islam a race, exactly..?
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

"It should not matter what France might do, what Great Britain might do, or what the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia might do," Duncan said. "Court decisions ought to be based on federal law, or state law."
I think they titled the article to be very misleading - they picked out the "Sharia law" bit because it would get people's attention. However, it is far more common for people to draw on what "Britain/France" did when making a decision. . . not "what Sharia law states" :shrug:

I agree that judges and legislatures (for that matter) within the US should only consider US law and precedent. That's just common sense.

Funny... So I am guessing that they will ban Jewish law and native American courts too right? If not, then it is another racist xenophobic attempt by the far right in the US.
Well, Native American tribunals have their own respective laws and precedents, however, they also must adhere to the laws of the US within a degree - what degree, I don't know. But they are an intricate part of our country, we're wrapped together.

Jewish law? What law is that and what country does that center around?

This legislation is merely trying to keep judges from saying "In Italy they ___" or "In Czechoslovakia they would ____" . . . even "In Israel they would ____ and ____" - They're saying that *no* other country's laws should be considered - only *us* laws.
 
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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Slightly OT, but many of the large U.S. banks have offered Shariah compliant banking for several years. Pre 9/11 even. They have just never really advertised the services very much.
Which is completely legal if the government isnt forcing them.
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Xenophobic, sure. But I don't see this as racist. Islam is not a race, but a culture.
I wouldn't even call it xenophobic since it represents the rejection of a legal institution -- a profoundly illiberal one at that.
 

Ockham

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Some places in the U.S. have a thing about salt --- so it's banned. Most states have a thing about smoking --- so that's banned. Many have a thing about texting while walking/driving - so that's banned. Oklahoma has a thing about Sharia law...
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Well, Native American tribunals have their own respective laws and precedents, however, they also must adhere to the laws of the US within a degree - what degree, I don't know. But they are an intricate part of our country, we're wrapped together.
And that is exactly what Sharia law and those who want to use it have to do. Sharia law has been used in the US among the Muslim community for years if not centuries. As long as what they are doing is within the legal framework of the US justice system, then there is nothing to prevent them from doing it if both parties agree. It is no different than Jewish courts in the US, who use Jewish religious law in disputes such as divorce and financial matters.

Jewish law? What law is that and what country does that center around?
Jewish religious law. As long as both parties agree on using it, and it is within the framework of US law, and the legal aspects of US law are followed, then nothing prevents them from doing so.

Jewish religious courts have existed in the US, and Europe for centuries.

This legislation is merely trying to keep judges from saying "In Italy they ___" or "In Czechoslovakia they would ____" . . . even "In Israel they would ____ and ____" - They're saying that *no* other country's laws should be considered - only *us* laws.
And so what? Judges have used other countries rulings as inspiration in interpretation of laws passed by the legislative, who btw, OFTEN use other countries laws and ways as motivation for the freaking laws and rules they are passing.. so it is more to do about nothing and more fearmongering and xenophobia by the US right.

Basically they still pissed over Rove VS Wade...
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Some places in the U.S. have a thing about salt --- so it's banned. Most states have a thing about smoking --- so that's banned. Many have a thing about texting while walking/driving - so that's banned. Oklahoma has a thing about Sharia law...
Can you name a place in the US where Sharia Law has been implemented?
I'm fine with this bill if it's rewritten to include all religious law.
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Some places in the U.S. have a thing about salt --- so it's banned. Most states have a thing about smoking --- so that's banned. Many have a thing about texting while walking/driving - so that's banned. Oklahoma has a thing about Sharia law...
The difference being that the rest of those things do exist in those places. Sharia law in Oklahoma courts, not so much.
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

And that is exactly what Sharia law and those who want to use it have to do. Sharia law has been used in the US among the Muslim community for years if not centuries. As long as what they are doing is within the legal framework of the US justice system, then there is nothing to prevent them from doing it if both parties agree. .

Sharia law runs counter to our laws by very nature of the fact it does not provide equal representation to all.
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

I wouldn't even call it xenophobic since it represents the rejection of a legal institution -- a profoundly illiberal one at that.
I think it depends on the motivation for the law being passed. I am no legal expert, but given that there is no Sharia law in place (from what I can tell) already effectively bans it since it has no place in the legal system.

Banning something that is not there and has a low possibility of being there seems to be more about the statement than about actually doing anything productive or useful. At least thats how I interpret it.
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

Funny... So I am guessing that they will ban Jewish law and native American courts too right? If not, then it is another racist xenophobic attempt by the far right in the US.
Really, so Jewish and Native American laws are comparable to Sharia law? I don't know anything about Jewish or Native American laws or how they are used in the U.S. But I do know some things about Sharia law. Trying to compare them is rediculous. Though I do agree that any laws from any culture should not be considered in the courts. If the bill does not accomplish this, then I think it is a big mistake. So all-in-all I would agree, but your choice of wording is poor in my opinion. If outright disdain for Sharia law is racist and xenophobic, then I guess I'm racist and xenophbic. Perhaps you support the subjugation of women, death and stoning for many different offenses, and the general civil oppresion that comes from Sharia laws. If Muslims want to practics Sharia law under their own free will then they may do so currently, however they should not and are not allowed to force those laws on others even in their own religion. Maybe we should also consider allowing clitorus mutilation. To say that it's racist to ban these laws is rediculous.

Do you consider people who are against "dry counties" xenophobes? Or what if a Christian group wanted to make homosexuality completely illegal? Would that make you a xenophobe for being against that? I think not. Double standards.
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

And that is exactly what Sharia law and those who want to use it have to do. Sharia law has been used in the US among the Muslim community for years if not centuries. As long as what they are doing is within the legal framework of the US justice system, then there is nothing to prevent them from doing it if both parties agree. It is no different than Jewish courts in the US, who use Jewish religious law in disputes such as divorce and financial matters.

Jewish religious law. As long as both parties agree on using it, and it is within the framework of US law, and the legal aspects of US law are followed, then nothing prevents them from doing so.

Jewish religious courts have existed in the US, and Europe for centuries.

And so what? Judges have used other countries rulings as inspiration in interpretation of laws passed by the legislative, who btw, OFTEN use other countries laws and ways as motivation for the freaking laws and rules they are passing.. so it is more to do about nothing and more fearmongering and xenophobia by the US right.
I see no fear mongering or xenophobia. . . you read "Sharia law" and latched onto Religious-issues while actually ignoring the actual purpose of this proposed law in Oklahoma - that US judges should use only US OK laws and regulations - NOT the laws and practices of other countries.

If Jewish, Islamic or other laws ARE precedent in the US then it's still acceptable - it doesn't strike down things that the US already upholds or believe in, it strikes down what other countries uphold or believe in. . . It seems like common sense, to me, to use the laws of your own country to pass judgment in court rather than deferring to the laws of the Netherlands.

Basically they still pissed over Rove VS Wade...
What on EARTH does this have to DO with Roe V Wade? This isn't about abortion. :confused:

You're flailing your arms in shallow water - put your feet down and just walk out, you're not drowning.
 

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Re: Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma

.....however they should not and are not allowed to force those laws on others even in their own religion.
Considering Sharia Law has not been implemented in any fashion in the United States Courts, your point is moot.

Pointing out this law bans Sharia Law from being implemented is nothing but grandstanding considering our constitution in the U.S. already prohibits Sharia law from being implemented.
 
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